Effort, athleticism and the ability to get your shot is different from being able to put the ball in the basket. I'm not arguing for or against what you're saying, just weighing in, in general and relating to Dickenson.

Basketball courts are strewn with the bodies of hyper althletic guys who can get to the basket and get open shots and hustle their ass off, but can't finish. Dickenson is very good putting the ball in the basket. He has a couple moves down low but he's not really athletic...at all. He simply has the innate ability to put the ball in the hole from multiple angles.

Combine that with his height and you have a frustrating player who is what he is.

#trustme
#iknowball

I don't have much criticism for Hunter Dickinson for his production on offense, though he was not good at the FT line last night.

My biggest complaint is that he doesn't always hustle back on defense or play hard on d, in general.

Also, he sometimes hedges was too far and it screws up the entire team defense.

While we're talking about player complaints, I like Zeke Mayo but he has some issues as well. I noticed in the first half last night that he was playing hard on defense. Hell, the whole team was, at least for about the first 10-12 minutes. And it really showed.

But Mayo then will get caught peaking inside and completely lose track of his man cutting to the basket.
Also, his 3 point shooting is way less on the road. That has to be a mental thing.

And he needs to drive to the basket looking to score at the rim more often. Hell, all of the guards need to do that.

Heck, even KJ was doing that early on last night with some success. Later in the game, you could tell he wasn't even going to try that. And the other team knew it, as well. :shake:

This is a good post.

The extended hard hedges have been a Bill Self special for as long as i can remember. He usually has athletic bigs that can recover and play D. Don't really have that outside of Flory and his 4 minutes a game (did i do that right?)

Does anyone else think that Dak guy on Colorado is one of the most annoying opposing players we have played? He's like an NBA guy, every single foul called on him he reacts like he never does anything. GMFB

I understand Self's hedge defense, it works when done right. The problem is that sometimes, Hunter goes way beyond what is reasonable.

At this point and this season, we should just sit him on the bench and hope that the NBA scouts dont have enough film to make him a lottery pick. :(

He goes way beyond what he's CAPABLE. Yes agreed.

The other half of that coin is athletics are also strewn with guys who made it look crazy easy at lower levels because they were just that much better than everyone else, then either Peter Principle themselves out of sports or don't know how/don't care to raise their game/effort/prep/etc for the first time in their life when they're met with relatively close competition. And now with NIL, we get to ponder players showing up just for the paycheck, too.

I'd imagine it has to be the most frustrating aspect of being a coach. You want your try hard guys to try hard and make the most out of their college sports experience before they start their career selling insurance, but you really want your good to great players to elevate their game to the highest level possible and not waste great potential.

Watching Mahomes **** around in a regular season game for 3 quarters just to win the game on the final drive is fine, but that doesn't mean it's also not frustrating when you know Mahomes can play at a far higher level for four quarters.

Given the talent around Dickinson and the fact he's not Mahomes, Dickinson ****ing around leads to 30 point losses to decent teams and losing at home to shitty teams, so it's that much more frustrating when he's proven he has extra gears that he hasn't used most of the season.

Yeah, he can walk onto the court and get a double double, nobody is saying he sucks... that's fine. It's not crazy impressive at the college level for a 7' center so I'm not going to give a handjob to the guy every time he excels at being tall and more talented than the average college player who often struggles with layups.... granted, stats are kind of irrelevant to the discussion anyway. Bust your ass and if you and/or your team still weren't good enough, so be it.

"Tough night" refers to the people who say he makes the team worse. Which is an objectively awful take. Whether he consistently gives max effort is a different argument, although I'm not sure you could say that about anyone on this team.

Any evidence to support the idea that he makes the team worse most nights? Just a bizarre take.

What we do have is the Cincinnati game he missed in KC last year. And they honest to God looked like a D2 team that day. Zero offense. Not too surprising to those who recognize that removing a double-double machine who draws triple teams will have a negative impact on the team's ability to score. The team that took the court that day would have finished last in the Big 12.

I think it's too late for that. Last mock draft I saw already had him at 14, and that was around a month ago.

We had a potential NBA All-Star on our team and he couldn't get on the floor because of Self playing "his" guy(KJ). This has to be his biggest mistake of his career.

Yeah, it's bizarre to you and KCC because after months of discussion, you guys still can't even state the opposite opinion/argument without obsessing over box scores and making up a bunch of stuff nobody actually believes... except probably BWillie, but he doesn't count.

Not ranked. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ro-comparisons

Not ranked. https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Not ranked. https://www.si.com/nba/draft/mock-dr...all-star-break

Not ranked. https://nbadraftroom.com/2025-nba-mock-draft/

Not ranked. https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

All google results on first page. In fact I cant even find him on any draft site boards right now.

Ok, I don't remember where I saw it, and I'm not going to take the time to look it up. That's great if he doesn't get drafted, and we keep him in the NIL age.

Boogie Fland was Arkansas freshman du jour, do it all early this year and the team was not good because everyone else seemed to just take a back seat. After he was injured, the team started playing much better and they resemble a tournament team now because everyone else had to start playing to their potential. It took them a few games, but they came around when guys starting figuring out their roles.

I don't know how comparable this is to Kansas or if the same would apply, but addition by subtraction is a real thing.

Agreed.

Why do you think some random game from last year has any correlation to this year?

Probably because every metric states that the team falls apart whenever he's off the floor this year too.

They literally have no offense if he doesn't touch the ball in the half court.

Am I not enough?

Sniff sniff

I wonder what it would look like if actual NBA teams with actual paid NBA scouts posted their draft boards for everyone to see because I guarantee that Flory is on all of them at this point.

I knew I had seen it somewhere, it was only 10 pages back. LMAO
The only other spot I saw was an article saying the Nets at 17, but it didn't show their entire mock, just an article from Feb. 5th saying they might take Bidunga there. And these mocks seem a little off the main stream mocks, but it's early also. :shrug:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Case in point. Effectively a Triangle and Two <a href="https://t.co/asHIIa12dc">https://t.co/asHIIa12dc</a></p>&mdash; R Boyd (@RRB4KU) <a href="https://twitter.com/RRB4KU/status/1894408059490836770?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If Self was playing him 30+ minutes a game, he'd be averaging 10+ rebounds and 4+ blocks a game and he'd clearly be on all of these lists on the internet.

The people NBA teams pay to follow B12 games have already seen more than enough to rank him highly, though, there's no hiding him from them. Only way he's coming back is if he, for some reason, decides to pass up on a guarantee of a multi-million NBA contract to stay at KU for NIL money and that feels incredibly unlikely in this era.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kansas freshman Flory Bidunga today in the win over Oklahoma State<br><br>6 points<br>16 boards (7 OREB)<br>3 blocks<br>3-6 FG<br><br>Wether it’s this year or the next, Bidunga has all the intangibles to be an interesting NBA big man, leveraging his size, defensive instincts and frame on both ends <a href="https://t.co/ipBLW1kEg0">pic.twitter.com/ipBLW1kEg0</a></p>&mdash; nbadraftpoint (@nbadraftpoint) <a href="https://twitter.com/nbadraftpoint/status/1893471532329963698?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 23, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think the only way he comes back is if he’s a back of the first round pick and feels like he can climb with another year.

Basically, what Blake Griffin did.

Next year’s crop of freshmen is pretty strong though, so I don’t think it would be worth the risk.

He also didn't play against Texas the year before - does that have a correlation to this year?



He wasn't on the team that year, so no it doesn't matter to this year. Just like last years team that was nearly a completely different roster doesn't matter to this years team.

Found KC on twitter. :p

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bill Self after he realized he can change and manipulate the season to get two seasons while everyone else only has one <a href="https://t.co/IKNpXOX1NS">https://t.co/IKNpXOX1NS</a> <a href="https://t.co/kleVl6Ar0q">pic.twitter.com/kleVl6Ar0q</a></p>&mdash; Jayhawks (@RockChallk) <a href="https://twitter.com/RockChallk/status/1894214540528652781?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

All I know is that KJ wasn't scoring or rebounding in any/all of the seasons.

If I was an NBA GM I'd draft him around 20-25. But just showing many of the mocks out there.

lol a follower of Gene Ray

Because it's the only full game he's missed at KU?

You didn't say he makes the team worse most nights?

Maybe about 5 spots behind that KJ Adams kid.

I would draft KJ in the 5th round and make him play TE or bulk up and be an edge rusher.

KJ could be an all time fan favorite if he uses an extra year to play football and becomes a big time college TE.

Help get KU football back to a bowl and you’ll be remembered as a great football player who was a good enough athlete to play on the basketball team as well.

No one cares if Julius Peppers was a good college basketball player but it’s impressive that he was even on the team.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CUBuffs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CUBuffs</a> head coach Tad Boyle: &quot;Post defense is not for pussies. It is for men. You have to be a grown men to play post defense on Hunter Dickinson.&quot;</p>&mdash; Oliver Hayes (@ocuhayes) <a href="https://twitter.com/ocuhayes/status/1894277668411216078?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That would be really cool.

Wtf? LMAO

And the rosters were completely different outside of, I think, 3 people.

I was responding to the claim that Dickinson makes the team worse. Are you suggesting he makes this team worse but not last year's? What do you think this team's record and offensive output would be without Dickinson?

I've never said that he makes the team worse being on the floor, and we certainly want him out there. I've said from the beginning he isn't the problem on this team.

You're using a random game from last season to try to prove a point that nobody else is arguing.

He said that Dickinson makes his teams worse, and BWillie has said the team would be as good or better without him. Which is asinine.

When the point being made for months now has "he makes everyone around him a little worse" when he plays lazy ball, it's just an awful leap in logic to take a game without him and say "hey, they didn't have HIS 15 points/10 rebounds!".

Uh, we aren't talking about HIS stats and how they apply to the final score, we're talking about him dragging down everyone else.

If you have a slug on defense, of course it's going to make everyone look bad when you're 4 on 5... if the one guy you're feeding the ball is not getting position or not going hard to the basket, of course that's going to take away from assists and so forth.

You' basically have to take performance with and without him, then subtract his points/rebounds/etc from it, because nobody is arguing the NET product is worse. The entire damn offense runs through him, of course it'll be worse when he's not even there.

And then when he busts his ass, guys are picking up more assists or easy buckets, playing better overall defense, etc.... pretty obvious stuff.

They literally don't have a functional offense if he's not on the floor (and they only barely do when he is, because teams don't guard KJ Adams) and the numbers show they're better defensively when he's on the floor as well. Again, just a bizarre level of criticism for a top 3 player in the NCAA.

Would it be better if Dickinson clapped his hands or slapped the floor like KJ does sometimes? Would that make people think he's trying?

KJ is the epitome of effort.

How dare you.

How dare you question his tire sized heart.

Me: It has nothing to do with whether Dickinson is on the floor.

You: bUt WhEn He'S nOt On ThE fLoOr



I need to stop calling you KCWillie... sorry, B, I should have given you more credit.

The team being horrific when Dickinson is off the floor seems kind of relevant to assessing whether Dickinson is a positive to the team.

For me, I prefer to use actual stats and facts when evaluating players rather than perceptions of their effort level. Crazy, I know.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just talked to Kansas coach Bill Self about any speculation that he might retire after the season or anytime soon. <br><br>“That’s not true at all,” he told <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFieldOf68?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheFieldOf68</a>.</p>&mdash; Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) <a href="https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1894837352536604862?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 26, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Won't retire when he could potentially coach KJ for another year.

They didn't list the full quote.

"That's not true at all. I plan to coach at KU another 10 years so long as the NCAA grants KJ liftetime college athletics eligibility like we petitioned"

Who said he's not a net positive to the team?

The entire team is built around a guy who can walk onto the court and get a double double, of course they're better off with him.

First of all, someone has argued the net product is worse (or would be the same).

He can get lazy at times, but even that's blown way out of proportion. Part of what's perceived as laziness is just being a big, unathletic oaf. It shouldn't shock anyone when a speedy 6'0 guard beats him to a loose ball.

Dickinson's presence alone makes everything easier for everybody else. They're getting way more open looks than they would otherwise.

Obviously everyone would love to see him giving 110% every second of every game, but it's weird to harp on this constantly when a) we're not seeing 110% effort from the rest of the team at all times, and b) it's the least of the team's worries.

Put some high-level scorers around him, and trust me, no one would care that he's not diving on the floor after every loose ball. Especially since he'd be averaging 25 ppg because teams wouldn't be able to double and triple team him on every possession.

Agreed he's a big unathletic oaf. I don't think it's blown out of proportion when so many people point out him going hard to the basket or doing things that aren't crazy uncommon (we aren't talking about diving into the stands for loose balls or anything) is like seeing Bigfoot... "that one game that one time Dickinson hustled into the lane for a big dunk"... that sort of thing. That's just hustle, even if he is slow.

I don't think it matters a ton in the grand scheme or anything... he obviously needs elite players around him, unlike a truly elite player who wills themselves to results (as has been discussed a few times). It’s not like anyone is saying this is a FF team if only Dickinson gave a shit.

It's just an uninspired, boring team not even worth watching over the past couple seasons. All his fault? Of course not. Some just expected more from all the hype and NIL$$$, the very least of which was being a better leader and giving a shit about Kansas basketball.

If only he clapped more like KJ. That would show how much he cares about KU basketball.

I agree

I agree

Pretty sure if Dickinson wanted to slap the floor, he'd lose interest about half way down while beginning to doubt he could even make it down that far, then end up falling on his face, taking the opportunity to make it look like a flop, and then kicking someone in the shins because he got big mad about it.

Not sure that would be a net positive for the team, unless maybe Adams trips over him in the process and has to take a few weeks off.

You're going off the rails again. He's routinely double/triple teamed and is still the 3rd or 4th best player in the country according to Kenpom. If that's not "results," I guess I don't know what that means.

I'd say 90% not his fault. The Colorado game is the perfect example. He played one of the best games you'll see a college player play, and they barely squeaked out a win vs a 2-15 team. That should've clued people into where the actual problems lie.

I think the "not giving a shit about Kansas basketball" stuff is way off base. Based on his podcasts and interviews, it's obvious that he takes pride in playing at KU. More so than most even.

JFC this KU thread has turned into the NBA thread - endless arguing about 1 player

Who? KJ Adams?

Wonder how many KU fans would come back to this thread regularly if it wasn't for 2 or 3 in here... maybe we can discuss net positive impacts of endless opinion spamming with a complete lack of understanding for nuance.

If only some would stop trashing the team's best player by far on the regular in here. Alas...

It's actually a pretty hot topic in CBB, so obviously it's going to be a hot topic here.

I opened reddit for all of 30 seconds without scouring for CBB stuff (or maybe Chrome is feeding reddit information :shrug: ) and some guy is asking about him.

That's a fairly common thread on CBB, whether from KU fans or other team fans.

Everyone in the country has such bizarre takes, I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/Gf8HbKP.jpeg

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/Wl7JWWAAjl

For some reason Dickinson's team had success when he played with good players with spacing on Michigan (instead of players who opponents don't guard at KU). I don't make a habit of going on there, but I wonder if Reddit has pondered why that could be yet.

There's a lot of good discussion in that thread about his performance with future NBA draft picks versus now, and everything in between... there's a lot of nuance and things for people to think about, if that's a capability outside of box scores and opinion spamming.

Is there a coach in college basketball that's a bigger douche than this guy?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dan Hurley asked if he “thinks you’re handling the press better now”<br><br>“I think the press has been assholes to me all year… oh, you meant— you meant on the court” ����<br> <a href="https://t.co/T0mbfWBOfH">pic.twitter.com/T0mbfWBOfH</a></p>&mdash; The Field of 68 (@TheFieldOf68) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFieldOf68/status/1894948708917092732?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 27, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ROCK CHALK WALK OFF GRAND SLAM FOR DARIEL OSORIA ������<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RockChalk?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RockChalk</a> <a href="https://t.co/Iy4OOhmfEZ">pic.twitter.com/Iy4OOhmfEZ</a></p>&mdash; Kansas Baseball (@KUBaseball) <a href="https://twitter.com/KUBaseball/status/1895276479925404082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Could we shift KJ over to the baseball team instead of football?

We're a baseball school.

Quidditch season is right around the corner.

I haven't been to a KU baseball game since Paul Splittorff's son played for the university.

I haven't been inside Hoglund since i played in a tournament there back in the early 90's.

I haven't been since they had quarter hot dogs on Mondays in 1998.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">CRANK THE HOG <a href="https://t.co/puGlxPGq4t">pic.twitter.com/puGlxPGq4t</a></p>&mdash; phoggy (@PhoggyThoughts) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhoggyThoughts/status/1895583379657208281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is now a KU baseball thread.

Ditto. Amazing you say that... Went to a game and Jamie was pitching with his pops Paul carefully watching from the stands. I wanna say 1995 or maybe '96? I remember it wasn't long after the football team went to the Aloha Bowl, basketball team went to the Final Four, and the baseball team went to the CWS all in the same year.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is what it’s all about ��<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NCAABaseball?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NCAABaseball</a> x �� ESPN+ <a href="https://t.co/xF12VH303K">pic.twitter.com/xF12VH303K</a></p>&mdash; NCAA Baseball (@NCAABaseball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NCAABaseball/status/1895615250877333605?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He doesn’t have another year of eligibility? Please God no!.