Umm they lost 3 of their top 4 WRs. That doesn't necessarily say anything about Hardman.

He's been a disappointment in a lot of ways, for sure.

He only had 700 yards and 2 TDs last year on 80+ targets. I'm pretty sure he got benched at some point in the season as well, though I doubt the coaching staff would admit it.

Pic attached

This is brand new information.

I haven’t been disappointed because I didn't have high expectations for him.

He's a useful player but an obvious miss when you consider who else was on the board.

WTF are you talking about? Hardman has come up clutch in several big time games and i the playoffs. That catch in the back of the endzone against the Saints was clutch as you can get. He redeemed himself after making a muffed punt and Patrick went right back to him and he scored a touchdown I think it was against the Bills the other ear. He did come up big against the Bills with his afterburners against the Bills scoring a touchdown that was ****ing The Flash speed. Hardman is also the one that gave us the spark to make a comeback from 24-0 against the Texans playoff game in the first quarter with his 60+ yard kick off return. Hardman has made clutch for us but he doesn't get credit. Tyreek made more mistakes caused turnovers and literally cost us the AFCCG but he isn't dogged like Hardman. Tyreek has also muffed punts more than once that cost us. No Hardman is not as talented as Tyreek but but he doesn't get the credit for all the good things he has done. I can't believe people here actually root for our guys to fail so they can pound their chest and say I've always said he sucked.

There is no reason not to trust Hardman in the clutch because he has proven he can make the clutch plays. Mahomes problem was he was too locked in on Hill and Hill is a diva wanting the ball for ESPN highlight real.

In 2019 Hardman had 1 drop in 2020 he had 8 and in 2021 he had 2 drops. Tyreek Hill had second most drops in the league.

He is improving every year.

This guy was a 1st round pick months after a Superbowl title.


https://bunkstrutts.files.wordpress....poop.gif?w=349

LMAO

What a horrible pick.

Yes, he has made some big plays and he absolutely deserves credit fir those.

Maybe he turned a corner when I wasn't paying attention. But it's been clear in the past that Mahomes has been frustrated with him. So it's not that he's never open, has too many drops, or never makes a clutch catch. But he has certainly been slow to develop chemistry with Mahomes. Hence my comment about him not being a player you can trust. More about being in sync than an issue of drops.

I agree he has improved and since he is the only real WR that isn't learning the playbook, I hope he starts the season out great.

Kareem Hunt averaged 4.6 ypc with Mahomes

Clyde Edwards-Helaire averages 4.4 yoc with Mahomes.

Is it really that big of a difference? Perhaps Kareem was a tad overrated and Clyde a bit underrated. Kareem definitely better but by how big of a margin?

By a lot. Just compare their runs near the goal line.

Just curious: how many times did defenders get penetration and meet our RBs behind the LoS? Seemed like constantly, but my memory might be a little off.

Maybe it looked different on television, but that 2nd down run (2nd and 2ish?) on the Chiefs last drive of the game, there was a hole there and CEH got taken down by a guy just falling to the ground, no?

He just didn't get through that hole with any authority and all so it closed up backside on him. Instead he loses has balance because Crosby's foot hit him in the thigh pad. If he hits that hole hard he has a lane to the outside where he can at least get Diablo to half a man and power through him to the sticks.

A quality RB converts that play - it's exactly the difference between a good RB and a fungible one. Clyde is just fungible.

Talking about the 3rd and 3 when he ran right? I thought he got tripped up by the DE that fell, but then he got tackled by a LB because he lost his balance. But there was no angle that showed exactly what happened when he went through the hole. I thought someone from the OL threw their hands up in a reaction to "Where is the tripping flag?"

2nd and 3.

Even if CEH just makes a play and gets a yard or two, that drastically changes third down, and makes it more likely to go on 4th if we run it on 3rd.

Just watch how Hunt attacks it & CEH doesn’t. The eyes don’t lie when watching the difference between them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who ****ing cares about Kareem ****ing Hunt?

We could use a kicker til Butker returns.

Yeah, that's the one (2nd and 3, though - the 3rd and 3 play was that ill-thought deep ball to Mecole).

They showed an angle from the back at the stadium. Crosby was going down and his foot came up into Clyde's leg and because of that he lost his balance and Diablo brought him down.

But it wasn't like he got drilled. It just struck me as the kind of contact that a guy running powerfully and decisively can run through. Clyde just doesn't do that very often.

I'm done getting upset over this guy.

He's JAG. He will be released when his time is up.

Just found the play again and it was Wylie that threw his hands up. But I think he was wrong.

He seemed upset that Crosby submarined him. But the new 'blocking below the waist' rule only applies outside the TE box. That was at the LOS and clearly within the TE box so it's legal.

That's just the old school 'dirt diver' play that guys sometimes use and typically an OL will put a forearm into their neck and pile-drive their asses into the ground for it. You rarely see guys do it because OL ****ing hate it and will absolutely punish you for it.

But in a desperation situation, I'm about 100% sure it's legal.

clyde carries the ball a lot less - keeps his average up

Kareem led the league in rushing yards too.

I don’t think he’s a JAG. I still love him in high leverage situations. Short yardage, run out the clock, etc…. He was good against Oakland in those situations especially now knowing that there was some dirty shit on the last run where he lost yards. I don’t know why Andy keeps marching him out there as a shotgun back on long yardage situations. And I still don’t love McKinnon being our goal line RB.

The sooner we can get Pacheco in for the early downs ceh can be plenty effective as a situational back

What was dirty about it?

Crosby didn't leg whip him, he undercut Wylie and Clyde ran into his legs and got taken down by them.

He's absolutely a JAG, IMO. There's just not a ton he genuinely does well. If he improves in pass pro he'll likely have a good career as a 3rd down back but I don't see much else there.

yeah, that was a bad one for sure.

Not sure why he continues to be RB1… he does nothing better than McKinnon or Pacheco.

He's a 1st round pick.

It's pretty clear that the coaches don't care about draft position.

All three backs do some good things and Andy will likely ride the hot hand.

I refuse to believe that Andy Reid makes decisions that way.

He pretty clearly does not.

He's not above giving a 1st round pick every chance to succeed. Do you really believe that the Chiefs would be starting Clyde if he had not been a #1 pick? :shrug:

Let's be honest: #32 in the draft is basically a 2nd round pick. It's not like CEH was drafted in the top 15.

But the other reality is that when Jerrick came to the Chiefs he had a history of not being able to stay healthy, and he was brand new to the playbook and the team. And that was just last year, so he still probably doesn't know the whole playbook, at least as far as the receiving part of it goes. But he can pass block, and he's had a season with the team, which is why he'd start over Pacheco, who's a rook.

But CEH knows more of the playbook and has more familiarity with the team than either of those guys, which is probably why he starts over the other RBs, more than where he was drafted.

No - 32 in the draft is a 1st round pick. We slide that scale when we find it useful to support an argument. Is 37 basically a first round pick? Oh sure, if that's what we trade for. Or how about 40?

Bryan Cook wasn't 'basically a 3rd round pick' - dude is a second rounder. To whatever extent that matters to you, that's what he was.

A first round pick has a 5th year option. He costs more money. And yes, he comes with expectations - expectations that MEH hasn't met. Moreover, you cite Pacheco - Pacheco was a 7th round pick, so who cares if MEH was 'basically a 2nd round pick' - he's performed to the level of 3rd day guys.

As for his 'familiarity with the team' - McKinnon is a 7 year veteran who's been with the team for a year and a half. He's been through 2 camps with the team and has practiced with them. He also gets key snaps on 3rd downs when Andy is using the most complicated plays he has. Familiarity isn't an issue.

Frank Clark wouldn't be on this roster had we not given up what we gave to acquire him. The organization has a blind spot for him. It seems more and more the case that they have one for Clyde as well. He's just not much of an asset at all.

Let me clarify… dirty but well within the rules. Just bringing it up that the blocking seems a bigger cause for the failed run than when we originally thought ceh just shat the bed. Ceh has been good enough in run the clock out situations this year to give him some benefit of a doubt.

Ok, I’ll have to rewatch. I was just focused on the block on the rewatch.

I still think Clyde has been ok in high leverage situations. When the defense is expecting run you don’t have to ask him to get too creative and he’s way better under center. In general he’s been good at saving himself from losses. He came short on that last one but he also had a few really solid short yardage pickups and he continues to be a decent weapon in the red zone. I think there’s a role for him. But it needs to be much smaller and more situational.

Okay, if you want to argue semantics, fine, CEH is a first rounder. But you know as well as anyone that guys picked in the 30s aren't seen by most as the same as guys picked in the first 15 or so. It's just how it is. Heck, didn't a lot of draft prognosticators have Clyde going in the 2nd round, or at least not in the first?

Now I get that 1st rders are more expensive and they come with that 5-year option, so yeah, there's that difference.

And while Jerrick is a 7 year vet, he's only had one year in KC. And in KC the Rbs are expected to be able to run every route in a given play, whether it's X, Y, Z, H, whatever. I haven't followed McKinnon's career that closely, but isn't this time with KC the first time he's been asked to do anything like that?

Plus, his injury history. Which I honestly don't know how of that is taken into account by the staff, but it's a fact that Jerrick was played sparingly at times last season. Most of us thought his injury history had some part in that decision last year.

Now, it seems to me that McKinnon has been playing more on 3rd and longs overall this season, which does seem to go back to his increased familiarity with the playbook and the team. And he's looked like the best pass pro RB we have right now. Those considerations feel like the biggest reason he got certain snaps vs. LVR over Pacheco. Or CEH for that matter.

But I'm not Andy, so I'm just guessing.

All BS aside though, CEH isn't ever going to play up to his "first rounder" expectations. He's not going to be the next Marshall Faulk or whatever. He was picked in the first round, so some people are just going to have certain expectations because he was picked on Day 1. Even me, and I've tried to be optimistic about him since he was drafted.

But now he's finally healthy (and playing better than he has since his rookie year), with probably the best OL he's played behind since being drafted, excepting our OTs, and he's still struggling more than anyone would like to see.

Personally, i think he's in his own head too much. I think he's trying to run the plays the way they practice them, the way he's been asked to run them, but when something goes sideways he won't improvise; he tries to stay with the play design even when the blocking has fallen apart.

Look at that run by Jacobs someone posted. That play looks like it was designed to go to the right, but when he feels like the hole isn't there, or maybe he just saw the hole to the left, he instantly takes things into his own hands and breaks it off to his left for a big gain.

I haven't seen CEH improvise like that. maybe he can't. I feel like he has this season to break out and do something that makes him special. But I'm not holding my breath.

Probably the proper way to hash this out woulda been, "yes, he's a 1st rounder technically. No, he wasn't a 1st rounder in terms of 'first round grade' considering Veach seems to have only about 15ish or so guys with a first round grade every year. Which would theoretically make him a 2nd round talent taken in the 1st.

I haven't held Clyde to 'first rounder' expectations for over a season.

What I want is for him to at least be a positive asset and not a blank on a balance sheet. Give me more than the street free agent who wasn't drawing any interest after 2 waves of FA signings and/or the 7th round flier.

Give me SOMETHING now that you've been in the league 3 years. So far all I've seen is a guy who can produce if his OL is absolutely mauling the guys on opposite of them. Merely average OL play isn't enough to get average production from Clyde. You need elite OL play to get above average production from him.

Again - Clyde had the best blocking of any RB in football last year and actually yielded negative yards over expected. He's been openly bad at running the football. Nobody's asking him to be Jonathan Taylor out there but lord, at least give me Damien Harris. Give me SOMETHING I can use.

My recollection is that Veach's glowing appraisals after the draft were essentially that he WAS a first round talent and easily the top guy on their draft board.

But it's all an exercise in turd polishing really - he's not played to a level commensurate with a top 100 pick. His been outplayed by literally every player to have gotten a similar opportunity in the Mahomes era. Hunt, Damien Williams and McKinnon. Even Darrell Williams was a more valuable player due to his short yardage use and the fact that he developed himself into a quality 3rd down back. Hell, even Shady averaged 4.6 YPC and was a quality pass catcher in limited opportunties. And as near as I can tell, MEH had the same fumble rate as Shady last season - it didn't get him buried.

He wouldn't be on the roster anymore if he weren't a 1st round pick.

Chiefs sign RB Wayne Gallman

You had me till the end there. I wouldn't go THAT far.

Guys like Kenyan Drake, James Conner and Sony Michel have been freely available the last 2 seasons and have all had better production over that timespan than Clyde has had.

The Chiefs made no effort whatsoever to bring Darrel Williams back and he was showing himself to be superior to CEH in passing situations and equally bleh running the ball.

If they had invested in Clyde what they invested in Darrel (which is to say - nothing), I don't think he'd be here anymore. Frankly, he'd have never have gotten the amount of opportunities he's gotten to this point, or will evidently continue to get.

He's the living embodiment of divestiture aversion.

Had this thought about the situation the other night: could Andy be trying to 'pad his stats,' to make CEH appear more valuable in a trade at the end of the season? Because I agree that CEH is probably not on the team next season if Pacheco stays healthy and no obvious weaknesses in his game pop up. I could be wrong, but it looks like Pacheco is the keeper going forward and CEH is bound for a new home in 2023.

So maybe someone thinks Andy can put some shine on CEH over the season and maybe get a little more for him than they would otherwise?

The Chiefs dont run enough to prop any RB up.

I mentioned high leverage situations. In short yardage with 3 yards or less to go or in the red zone he was 3 for 5 at getting a first down or a TD. And one of those he missed the end zone by inches. Of course that also includes the big miss on the final run.

It’s really the long down and distance where he’s been mostly atrocious. At least in games where the defense puts a tiny bit of effort into stopping the run

Pacheco still needs to show more savvy running the football.

For the same reasons I give little weight to CEH 'dominating' (while not breaking 100 yards of 5 YPC against TB), it's hard to put too much stock in Pacheco cutting up TB that game.

The OL just ****ing wrecked Tampa. And when that's happening it's easy to just run where you're pointed and be effective. That's not how most games go and so I think before we consider Pacheco a 'keeper' we need to see him do some work against lines that aren't getting blown off the LOS. That's where the rubber meets the road a bit.

I'd pass the ball on 90% of first downs if the game were within 1 score. And then if the game gets spread one direction or another, run it on 1st downs as pure tendency breakers to try to scramble a few spreadsheets.

The first down runs drive me absolutely bonkers unless they come inside the 5 yard line.

Yeah, that's a given. Just extrapolating the best potential scenario.

The more I think about it, I don't think they're trying to improve CEH's stock for a future trade. I don't remember Andy ever doing anything like that, for one.

I think it's more likely that Andy's just giving CEH a chance to show what he can do. This is his first year of being actually healthy, and having a decent OL at the same time.

Though statistically he's been better this season than any other. In week 1 vs. ARZ he averaged 6.0yds/att and a pair of receiving TDs, vs. LAC he went 8-for-74 yds on the ground for a 9.25yds average, and then of course against TB he went 19-for-92yds (4.84yds/carry) with both a rushing TD and one receiving. So yeah, he didn't do anything vs. IND or LVR, but he was pretty good in his other three games.

4.5 YPC terrible

I don't care what fantasy stats James Conner put up last year.

I don't think I've EVER seen that guy have a single carry where I go, "Wow nice run." CEH has had a few, even if they're just nice and not spectacular.

Just based on the eye test, I think Conner is one of the worst current or former starting RBs still playing in the NFL.

James Conner is basically Mike Cloud with a cancer survival story and more opportunities to fart on the field with his incredible sub-4.0 career YPC.

I kinda expect some increased usage of Pacheco and Skyy against the Bills.

In 2021 the avg YPC was 4.3...and that even includes QBs who skew the results like Lamar and Jalen Hurts.

Honestly,

Yeah it is, now pull his YPA when it’s 2nd and short or 3rd and short

Let's find anything we can to back up our argument! 4.5 ypc and 5 tds that sucks we should trade for Christian McCaffery

Sucks:
https://www.footballdb.com/statistic...on?sort=rectds

You know guys we can win the Super Bowl with running back by committee the way Andy is doing it. You guys still going knock him when he contributes to winning the Super Bowl?

McKinnon is absolutely great and can make teams pay. However the draw back to McKinnon is he is 30yo that's pushing 60 in Running Back years. Although he is still effective but effective as relief pitcher. He is not going hold up 4 quarters and I think Andy is trying save him for the playoffs and he will be fresh that way. Let the younger backs do the work for the brunt of the season.

Clyde would have had better gains had Trey Smith suited up.

McKinnon is an explosive back but he loses his burst the more you play him.

Clyde sucks big dicks. His 9 Carrie’s for 15 yards were a waste of snaps

It’s too late now but I wanted Swift.

Yes

I'm not a huge fan of CEH, but this coaching staff does not do him any favors. He will never be an outsize zone RB because of his speed, yet they keep calling it. He's not even a good zone-read RB because of his lack of vision.

Why this team refuses to switch to a primarily gap or power-based run scheme is irritating. They have the line to do it and it fits CEH so much better.

Not sure Andy looks at it the way most people do.

I'm thinking Andy is thinking more like this.

CEH - 5.24
Jet - 5.19
Pacheco - 4.78

That is the number of yards per touch.

I miss the running backs by committee. 1999 was my favorite:

Donnell Bennett
Bam Morris
Rashaan Shehee
Mike Cloud

MEH

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ffc8QbrX...name=4096x4096

God damn look at Pacheco though.

Fellas, if he's still on your WW, snatch him up.

They need to start using him more.

There's some small sample size there, but yeah, it's not close. I don't understand what's happening with it.

All it took for me was the preseason.

I don't need a larger sample size. I trust my eyes, and Pacheco might be the most talented RB this team has had since JC.

Which means I have zero doubt that he's better than CEH.

Same as Moore. The coaching staff is playing vets in truly tough spots. They apparently have concerns about Pacheco's blocking or something because the only duty he's getting is really on obvious running downs.

they're going to make the switch to pacheco and skyy after the bye

you watch

reid always has a plan

Doesn't that sound familiar though? (CEH)

I don't know, it just honestly feels like an Andy slowly bringing along a rookie thing. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

I really don't get why Reid and Bieniemy are so determined to jam a square peg into a round hole when it comes to CEH. This guy might be the least equipped RB in the league to run an outside zone scheme with and yet that's what we do with him. Just let the little ****er run behind Thuney and Humphrey.

Yep.

I wish I was confident that will happen, but I think it absolutely should.

3 of clyde's last 4 games

25 carries for 48 yards

you can't tolerate that shit much longer

Good god that is pathetic. Jesus. :banghead:

Dammit!

That means he won’t be worth a shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

****ing idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Homer ****ing idiot