ChiefsPlanet - Chiefs Rick Gosselin draft grade: Chiefs get A+

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Rick Gosselin draft grade: Chiefs get A+ (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227224)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6714792)

OTW?

Sorry, Billay. I'm not avoiding you, I'm just knee deep in ****tards at the moment.

Could you post that question again, and the post you quoted so I can see the context? It doesn't make a lot of sense standing alone.

last 4 drafts 11 2nd rounders have made a pro bowl so far...

11/128 picks have made a pro bowl...

the drafturbators #1 flaw is they expect FAR too much from 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat (Post 6714800)

True. I agree with that.

Also, I think the GM has to be a really good gun slinger. I think the GM needs to score a lot. Missing is no good. I think its pure hit and miss.

If you're a bad team drafting in the top 5 two years in a row and you miss on those picks you are in deep trouble because it's those picks that are the differential makers that either set your team back or make your team go forward.

Im part of that fanbase where I've been patient but just willing to hang in there from time to time. If it takes them 3 years great, if it takes them 5, Im cool with that too. As a fan, the most important thing Im always keeping in mind, is, progress. As long as my team is making strides thats what counts. Sometimes it takes long, sometimes it doesn't. But it's the patience that plays an integral role in that sense. The frustration kicks in when I see my team regressing....Herman *cough* Edwards *cough*

Honestly, I'm not going anywhere. I'm a Chief for life. But it's frustrating as ****. And while everyone piles on OTW and Hamas, I can totally relate to being so passionate about this team that my blood boils sometimes. The only difference between us is I say **** it and don't click submit, but they usually do. I won't fault them for that. And I'm not saying you are, I'm just sayin'. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6714808)

Excuse me?

I've never been banned in my 5 years here. Nor have I not honored a bet.

What is it with people making shit up this evening?

Your probably right because I get on here so infrequently that i mix your posts up with ROR. Sorry my bad.

they are passionate about hating Pioli, not being Chiefs fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 6714774)

I hope you had a life before you ever logged into the planet. This a great place if it's self defining for you then.....I'm sorry.

PhilFree:arrow:

I just read an old thread of yours, Phil.

You have a lot of balls calling me out, my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6714801)

But again, go back and look at how few teams achieve the goal that you think is a "should". It almost never happens. When a team gets down to 1-3 wins, it's usually because they really, really suck and have little to no talent. Making it even more difficult, free agency doesn't produce the number of quality players it used to, because the huge jump in the salary cap made cap casualties essentially a thing of the past. Hell, it was even worse this year, with the CBA language limiting free agency even more than usual.

If I were a Chiefs fan, I'd be looking for improvement this season, and not looking for hard win totals of any kind until next season. After all, your notion of the playoffs means that the Chiefs will have to get past some number of the following:

Chargers
Broncos
Patriots
Jets
Ravens
Steelers
Bengals

in order to get there. Out of those teams, do you really see any way that the Chiefs will so quickly overtake the talent on any of those rosters other than the Bengals, who were probably a fluke destined to miss the playoffs this year before Roethlisberger went clubbing?

Teams do. Look at Green Bay. Look at Atlanta last year. New Orleans was shit not too long ago. That wasn't a one year turn around ala GB, and ATL, but recent history says teams can turn it around and do it quickly.

Now, I'll give you that KC was much different from those teams, but that's why I gave them 3 instead of 1.

As always, just my opinion. :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 6714809)

I guess I missed the slandering......I read you slandering but besides that I'm at a loss.

PhilFree:arrow:

I just read an old thread of yours, Phil.

You have a lot of balls calling me out, my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6714820)

Understandable.

My question is while i'm not excited about the moves Pioli has made if you think about it this way. Since this time last year Pioli has added Chambers, Jones, Lilja, Berry, McCluster and Asamoah. I would say thats a significant upgrade in talent despite totally sucking year one.

Also Weis and Crennel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 6714572)

And when was the last time that this amazing drafting led to an AFC Championship, let alone a Super Bowl?

Baltimore has never had the QB to beat Brady, Manning or Big Ben. That has been their biggest problem this decade. Plenty of talent but not at the most important position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6714816)

You may be the stupidest person on this site. I wasn't owned, because I was correct. I didn't back away, either. I waited for some time before leaving the site, but I had things to do and couldn't wait all day for Deez to try spinning his boneheaded comment yet another time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6712918)

Could you give us a complete list of teams that have gone from 2 wins or fewer to Super Bowl contenders in less than 4 years? I'm sure that, since Pioli would be incompetent for taking that long, the list will be extremely long, but perhaps you could give us a partial list of, say, 10-20 times where it's happened? And, to keep that, doubtlessly astronomical, number low, let's limit the time range to the past 10 years.

I looked at Pro-Football-Reference.com to help figure out the vast number of examples, and I came up with the number "0", as the two closest teams would seem to be the post-2002 Bengals (2-14 to 11-5 in 3 years, not really a Super Bowl threat, but did have the one very solid year) and Post-2007 Dolphins (went from 6 wins to 1 win due to lousy QB and terrible coaching. Got a new coach, got lucky with Pennington and went 11-5. Clearly not a Super Bowl threat, but a significant upgrade in 1 year, even with the backslide last season). I'm sure you can find a whole host of examples that I missed, though. After all, the Cowboys once managed it in the 90's, after fleecing the Vikings for Herschel Walker, so it probably happens all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6712956)

LMAO.

"2 wins or fewer"?

Let's use the Chargers, who went from 1-15 to 12-4 in four years time. By your astounding logic above, the Chiefs should be able to do this in half the time, since they had double the wins. And the Chargers have been consistent SB threats from, essentially, this time forward.

And I like how you immediately rule out any exceptions as not "serious SB threats" (a phrase not used by Dane or me in our posts). If you're in the playoffs, you have a chance. Holla, Carl.

Don't worry. No one is being too mean to Pioli in this thread. If you want him back, please...let us know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6712983)

It has nothing to do with Pioli and everything to do with your ridiculous comment. As you noted, it took 4 years for the Chargers to go from 1-15 to 12-4. Given that Dane used 4 years as his number, you've got no argument here.

1-15
5-11
8-8
4-12
12-4

Also, regarding the Bengals and Dolphins.... even conceding them, which I don't, since they were not Super Bowl threats and you've been among the group bitching about "8-8"/"first round" stuff, you've got a grand total of 2 teams in a decade, and neither for more than one season of 'glory' before falling back into the pack (one to .500 and the other to below .500 the following season).

Are you now going to claim that you want to see 11-5 and a "one and done" in the playoffs followed by .500 or worse? Is that to be your stated goal for the Chiefs?

P.S. I chose 2 wins because that's what the Chiefs had the year before Pioli arrived. It wasn't just some random number being tossed out. If you go up to 3 wins, you get to add the Saints to the list and move from "0" to "1".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6713001)

Did we or did we not hire the four-time Executive of the Year? Should we not expect the best?

If the Chargers can go from 1 win to 12 in four years, getting close to this level in 3, for a team with double the wins, should be a reasonable expectation for someone of Pioli's talents.

And let's not forget that he brought a ready-now/win-now QB with him in year one. He not ****ing around with guys like Doug Flutie (who was more talented than Cassel, but I digress.)

You want another example? How about the Chiefs? The team that Vermeil inherited was an absolute disaster. The '01 team was an embarrassment. This is why records can be deceiving.

In year three we were, allegedly, SB contenders.

The bar is set for Pioli. 8-8 this year. Playoff run in '11.

No excuses. Though, I'm sure we can expect an impressive amount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6713006)

Ok, this is all my mistake. You see, I used to think you were a quality poster. I misread you at that time. I'm sorry for that.

Looks like someone went for the personal insult after realizing they'd had their ass handed to them in the argument to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6714816)

Sorry, JPB. Mowing the "yard"--biggie, such is life in the country--trumped all this afternoon.

It's accepted by the vast majority of this board that Pioli glaringly underperformed in his first year on the job. Some have decided to provide him with an "evaluation year."

I have not. I think that's a bullshit mulligan. We paid for the best, so I expect for him to live up to the hype.

As I've stated, I think the notion that the team he inherited was devoid of talent gets WAY overplayed on this site. It's simply not true. He had some very important pieces in place: LT, WR, DT, CB, RB (which was, admittedly, a bit of a surprise).

In short, he had a VERY young team, with significant resources devoted to a 43 scheme. Pioli scrapped the entire project. Fine. But he needed to be right.

After turning over a significant portion of the roster, he yielded surprisingly paltry results. Oh, meanwhile bringing in the albatross known as Matt Cassel.

From where we were in Jan. '09, I think expecting to make a playoff run (note: just playoffs, not SB) in '11 would have been perfectly reasonable. And I'm holding to that position.

If you want to ride into town and prove to everyone how smart you are, talking big and instituting the secret society Midwest, that's fine. Just be right and get results. And I want to hold our GM to this standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6714827)

I just read an old thread of yours, Phil.

You have a lot of balls calling me out, my friend.

You read any thread that I posted and I don't care..This place doesn't define me at all....It does you though .......I'm here because I'm a NFL/Chief Fan and that's it. Hey I've posted ridiculous posts more then once but I always knew what it was.......I don't think you got that game. I could be wrong.....but even if I am ...well Fuk you! Got It.....

PhilFree:arrow:

After turning over a significant portion of the roster, he yielded surprisingly paltry results. Oh, meanwhile bringing in the albatross known as Matt Cassel.

The albatross was our O-line and LJ.

From where we were in Jan. '09, I think expecting to make a playoff run (note: just playoffs, not SB) in '11 would have been perfectly reasonable. And I'm holding to that position.

Agree 1000%

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6714839)

Looks like someone went for the personal insult after realizing they'd had their ass handed to them in the argument to me.

Again, I was correct with my post. You keep overlooking that. You also ignore that the thread pattern continued after that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6713032)

All posters are "quality," JPB.

Some are high-quality. Others are low-quality, and still others are of a middling-quality.

I'm sorry that Pioli's incompetence to this point has greatly offended Patriot fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6713048)

And another example of a pathetic post on your part.

Look, you made a stupid claim. It happens. Just admit it and move on. As I said, I used to think you were a quality poster. I think you let a small group of fools drag you down into the mud, and I think you can be a lot better than what you've become.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6713059)

I don't think it's stupid to say that it shouldn't take 4 years to field a legit team in KC. We supposedly have the best GM and two of the better coordinators in the league.

We have an in-his-prime QB and one of the best RBs* in the league (completely admit that if JC regresses, that will be huge).

The defense Pioli inherited was comprised of all day-one picks on the line and a talented secondary.

Claims that the roster was "devoid of talent" are not accurate. We were missing the single biggest piece, QB, and Pioli supposedly corrected that problem.

8-8, approximately, is a perfectly reasonable expectation for 2010. Playoff run in 2011. Not saying SB in 2011, just an appearance in the playoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 6713130)

8-8 is not a "perfectly reasonable expectation for 2010", and you bloody well know it. That's the sort of bullshit I'd expect from a Hamas or Mecca post.

The Chiefs arguably had less talent than the Lions when Pioli arrived, for crying out loud, and were certainly among the 2-3 least talented teams in the league. You know that, as well. You've spent the better part of a year bitching about damned near everything, and overlooking that elephant in the room. As for that talent on the line and in the secondary, I can only assume you're kidding.

That's where that line of posting has ended, at least for now, in that thread. Not where you finished it in a stupid attempt to make it look as if I was backing away.

Then again, given that it's you, I'm sure that's a surprise to nobody that you'd pull such a pathetic stunt.