Yes. This is exactly right. Saying that they are busts at this time is ridiculous, especially given the coaching staff, but saying that they haven't disappointed given their draft position is homerism. [Although Hali IS approaching bust status.]

That train is pulling up to the station as I type. Completely unimpressed with that guy.

That's NOT what i was talking about. What i was talking about is this year up to this point. He's not been good or even average. He's been getting bitch slapped around. I am not going to say he's a bust or anything, but as of right now. He's not playing any better then Sims did his rookie year thats for damned sure.

And you have an amazing habit of putting words in people's mouths to make your argument sound better.

I didn't say Turk was a good player. I said they did pretty good in picking him up. You act as if picking a late 2nd round draft pick gets you a surefire starter, nevermind that there are only two players out of the next 10 drafted have made any major impact on the teams they play for (Ryan Kalil and Sampson Satele). And neither has lit any fireworks so far.

The statement that Turk is a fringe roster player on other teams is a joke. No team would give up on a player like that in only his 2nd season (first major season of action) for one, and secondly, unlike you, most teams don't cut players just because they don't start. Ryan Denney of the Bills was offered a multi-million dollar contract to serve in a similar role that Turk SHOULD be playing--as a rotational lineman.

Turk McBride has 41 tackles in 9 games, which means that he would finish the season with probably about 75 if he stayed healthy. And you think he would be cut by most teams? Bullshit. McBride would be a huge asset to this team if he was a rotational player in the mold of a Jimmy Wilkerson or a Ryan Denney. He should be a run down DE and a nickel tackle. If you have a stud DE on one end and a rotation of Hali and Turk on the other end, our ends would not be in terrible shape.

I stand by my position that in the late 2nd round, we have seen PRETTY good value out of McBride. I don't agree at all that you can call him a bust just yet.

If you are comparing someone to Ryan Denney that is not something to be excited about...

Shit, I'm sorry. I meant to say Chris Kelsay.

I know some Bills fans and for the record they hate Chris Kelsay and Ryan Denney and have wanted the Bills to draft a DEnd for years to pair with Schobel.

It's because fans don't care about players who don't tally up a ton of sacks. Turk, like Kelsay, is not supposed to be a playmaker. He's supposed to be a guy that sets up opportunities for other players to make plays. He can hold his own in the run game and he bruises, batters, and exhausts his linemen so that the person behind him can benefit. Not much different from having a big bruising RB batter up the defense so the quick scatback can run wild against an exhausted defense. I think Turk still makes mistakes, but I've also seen lots of plays where he has just mauled his blocker into the backfield.

The problem is, he's playing as a primary DE when he should be used more rotationally. I still believe that if you rotate Turk and Hali on one end opposite a stud pass rusher, our DE situation will not be that terrible. Hali was a big-time reach, but I don't think you can say that about Turk just yet. Turk will do just fine when he's rotating.

Jags have same problem with their high D-line picks. It's almost like picking a QB at those positions. Crapshoot. Combine that with the players next to them and the schemes, etc. Even the Bucs made Ryan Sims look competent. Haynesworth is in his 3rd or 4th year and just coming into his own. Also, the kid in Houston - Mario someone. Same deal.

Donnell Bennett, FTW!

If you aren't drafting to get a solid starter in the 2nd round you either have:

A) a deep team
B) a stupid GM

I can't believe anyone would say we've gotten any value out of McBride. 41 tackles? You don't say. I must have missed the memo where defensive end tackle stats mean shit. This defense can't get off the field, but leave it to you to praise the tackle stats of a completely non-existant defensive end.

Please take a poll on other websites and see what other fans say about 2nd round players. Do they expect to get a rotational player, or a guy they can plug into the lineup?

Turk McBride will bounce around more than the marbles in your head during his career. I'll even bet 5 years down the road that he's not even in the league.

He's an awful player who can't rush the passer, can't stop the run, and can only hit a QB about 50 seconds late.

You can shove your comparisons to Ryan Denney. If Ryan Denney is your benchmark, you keep lowering the NFL IQ bar.

Carlton Gray was given a multi-million dollar contract to do nothing. I guess we should start judging cornerbacks by his standard.

It's pretty stupid for GMs to draft players who aren't solid starters in the second round. What was I THINKING. What a bunch of morons in Jacksonville, drafting Maurice Jones-Drew to be a RB who can only carry the ball 170 times in a season. What a bunch of morons to draft nickel backs. What a bunch of morons in Tennessee to draft Jason Jones to be a backup to Van den Bosch in the late second round. Bill Parcells is a stupid GM because he went for a backup QB in the 2nd round. The Giants were reerunED to draft Mattias Kiwanuka in the late first round to back up Strahan and Omienyura. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? IDIOTS!!!!!

Your idea that the late second round is this breeding ground for solid starters is laughable. Nevermind that well over half the teams that picked after the Chiefs in the first round have gotten little to no contribution from their draft picks and that late second round players tend to bust at over a 50% clip.

Bernard Pollard is a bust unless proven otherwise. His only role is to start games. Turk McBride can serve as a role player and still play well over half the snaps, and just as many snaps as a Jones-Drew or a Jamaal Charles or a Justin Tuck or a Mattias Kiwanuka. Speed rushers who weigh less than 260 lbs are drafted all the time to get 8 sacks and complete suck it up against the run--those are rotational linemen too, but I'm sure you'd argue that's a great pick in the 2nd round because sacks are the only thing a DE is supposed to do.

Turk has not lit up the world, but he's a solid value pick in the late 2nd round. His job is not to rush the passer--he's only being asked to because the Chiefs, unlike most teams, only have 2 legit DEs. You can dance around it all you want, but 41 tackles in 9 games is extremely above average for a DE and an indication that he's getting to the ball carrier (unless, you're going to suggest to me that he's making tackles 20 yards downfield). Teams have run toward Hali, who is a huge liability against the run, the tackles have been inconsistent, and the LBs have been horrific at filling in gap control. But I guess it's much easier to pin the blame on everybody.

Turk has done fine as a bookend DE. And if that's his role and he plays it well, he is a good value pick in the late 2nd round.