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OnTheWarpath15 01-15-2009 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 5394894)
Isn't Super Bowl wins what defines QB play? Its the reason why Marino, Kelly and others arent thought of as highly as they should.

Only by reeruns that don't know shit about football.

Christ, we're talking about 2 Hall Of Famers.

There are great QB's that have never won a SB, and less than average QB's that have.

It's reeruned to say that because a 5th round QB has never won a SB, that it will never happen.

Of the 27 QB's that HAVE won a SB, 14 of them were taken in the 1st.

That means the other 13 weren't.

DaneMcCloud 01-15-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 5394898)
I wonder how many first round QB's flamed out and never won squat.....

Someday, I'll take the time to research and report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 5394898)
it's not just the QB...it's getting the right players and staff together at the right time...it is extremely hard to do....

This is true but in the era of free-agency, a stellar QB should be able to move onto a better team, thus improving his chances at a Super Bowl.

Jim Plunkett is one example, as is Steve Young. Trent Dilfer (a former first rounder) even won a Super Bowl.

OnTheWarpath15 01-15-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray (Post 5394898)
I wonder how many first round QB's flamed out and never won squat.....

it's not just the QB...it's getting the right players and staff together at the right time...it is extremely hard to do....

Exactly.

It's a team sport.

Hell, Jim Kelly took a pretty damn good team to the SB FOUR times, only to run into a better TEAM 3 times, and get let down by a kicker on the other.

DaneMcCloud 01-15-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5394903)
Only by reeruns that don't know shit about football.

Christ, we're talking about 2 Hall Of Famers.

There are great QB's that have never won a SB, and less than average QB's that have.

It's reeruned to say that because a 5th round QB has never won a SB, that it will never happen.

Of the 27 QB's that HAVE won a SB, 14 of them were taken in the 1st.

That means the other 13 weren't.

Regardless, the odds of winning a Super Bowl are greatly increased if you have a first round QB at the helm.

That cannot be disputed.

Ebolapox 01-15-2009 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777 (Post 5394126)
I don't think you can extrapolate from what happened in New England that Pioli doesn't like to draft QBs high. They had Bledsoe and then Brady, they never had any need to spend a high pick on a QB.

bledsoe went first overall in 1993. that's a pretty high pick for a QB, isn't it?

OnTheWarpath15 01-15-2009 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5394909)
Regardless, the odds of winning a Super Bowl are greatly increased if you have a first round QB at the helm.

That cannot be disputed.

Really?

Because of the 27 that have won a SB, only 14 (52%) were 1st round picks. I don't see how that's "greatly increased."

That stat aside, again, it's a ridiculously small sample size.

It's something people who can't back their argument up say.

"There's never been a QB drafted in the 5th round win the SB."

BFD.

There HAVE been QB's win in every other round except the 7th, including the 9th round, 10th round and an UDFA.

It all means NOTHING, because football is a TEAM sport.

DaneMcCloud 01-15-2009 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5394908)
Exactly.

It's a team sport.

Hell, Jim Kelly took a pretty damn good team to the SB FOUR times, only to run into a better TEAM 3 times, and get let down by a kicker on the other.

Don't forget that Jim Kelly was a first rounder.

OnTheWarpath15 01-15-2009 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5394926)
Don't forget that Jim Kelly was a first rounder.

But according to some, he's a POS because he never won a SB.

And without doing the research, there are several late round QB's that also went the the SB and lost, Hasselbeck and Bulger being the most recent.

aturnis 01-15-2009 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave (Post 5394084)
This. When I was 24 I could throw a better deep ball.

no you couldn't.

Mecca 01-15-2009 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5394923)
Really?

Because of the 27 that have won a SB, only 14 (52%) were 1st round picks. I don't see how that's "greatly increased."

That stat aside, again, it's a ridiculously small sample size.

It's something people who can't back their argument up say.

"There's never been a QB drafted in the 5th round win the SB."

BFD.

There HAVE been QB's win in every other round except the 7th, including the 9th round, 10th round and an UDFA.

It all means NOTHING, because football is a TEAM sport.

Probably because that 52% is more than all the other rounds combined....then you factor in that 2 guys account for 7 of the non first 1st round bowls.

Thig Lyfe 01-15-2009 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5394889)

And unless Kurt Warner wins the Super Bowl, that number will grow to 25.

He already has...

EDIT: Wait, I think I see what you mean.

DrRyan 01-15-2009 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 5394779)
Oh yes lets dont take the QB bc of the bust factor. Its about 70% that you will get at least a Pro Bowl QB with a top 5 pick.

I would love to see any kind of real facts to back this up. This is a blatantly made up statistic. You are claiming that 70% of QBs drafted in the top 5 become Pro Bowlers???? ROFL

ChiefsCountry 01-15-2009 06:01 PM

Montana and Brady own I think its 16% of all-time Super Bowl wins. Not to mention Roger Stabuach, he was a 10th round pick bc of Vietnam.

DaneMcCloud 01-15-2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5394923)
Really?

Because of the 27 that have won a SB, only 14 (52%) were 1st round picks. I don't see how that's "greatly increased."

That stat aside, again, it's a ridiculously small sample size.

It's something people who can't back their argument up say.

"There's never been a QB drafted in the 5th round win the SB."

BFD.

There HAVE been QB's win in every other round except the 7th, including the 9th round, 10th round and an UDFA.

It all means NOTHING, because football is a TEAM sport.

Whoa, Cowboy.

It absolutely means SOMETHING.

If it were a meaningless stat, why would anyone bother drafting a QB in the first round, much like guards and centers?

If it were such a meaningless stat, why are 3 out of the 4 remaining teams left in the 2008 playoffs helmed by first round QB's?

Regardless of the fact that no QB drafted in the 5th and 7th rounds have never won a Super Bowl and regardless of the fact that four Super Bowls were won by Joe Montana (a third round choice) and three were won by Tom Brady (6th rounder), the best chance of winning the Super Bowl is with a first round selection.

Brady and Montana were anomalies that skew the stats. Both weren't "System QB's" that won on flukes. It was fluke that both were overlooked by scouts. In hindsight, there's absolutely no question that both would have gone number one overall in their respective draft years.

It's not a fluke that both are Hall of Fame players.

OnTheWarpath15 01-15-2009 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5394934)
Probably because that 52% is more than all the other rounds combined....then you factor in that 2 guys account for 7 of the non first 1st round bowls.

Well, using that theory, there should be a LOT more.

After all, a 1st round pick SHOULD be a better player than a 5th round pick, right?

Regardless, as I've pointed out, it's a pointless stat.

You're basing this on TWENTY SEVEN QB's out of over a THOUSAND that have played the game at this level.


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