GoChiefs will flip his tune after the first week of training camp when there are nothing but rave reviews over McCluster and Arenas...

Those are picks that will turn out to be every bit as good as our Flowers 2nd round pick a few years ago.

I wish we had upgraded our front 7 this draft. Teams had far too much success running the ball against us, and while an upgraded secondary is a good thing, we'll never see the full benefit of it until our defense can consistently put our opponents into passing situations by stuffing the run. I just wonder if we are looking at anybody FA wise that might be an upgrade.

Could you give us a complete list of teams that have gone from 2 wins or fewer to Super Bowl contenders in less than 4 years? I'm sure that, since Pioli would be incompetent for taking that long, the list will be extremely long, but perhaps you could give us a partial list of, say, 10-20 times where it's happened? And, to keep that, doubtlessly astronomical, number low, let's limit the time range to the past 10 years.

I looked at Pro-Football-Reference.com to help figure out the vast number of examples, and I came up with the number "0", as the two closest teams would seem to be the post-2002 Bengals (2-14 to 11-5 in 3 years, not really a Super Bowl threat, but did have the one very solid year) and Post-2007 Dolphins (went from 6 wins to 1 win due to lousy QB and terrible coaching. Got a new coach, got lucky with Pennington and went 11-5. Clearly not a Super Bowl threat, but a significant upgrade in 1 year, even with the backslide last season). I'm sure you can find a whole host of examples that I missed, though. After all, the Cowboys once managed it in the 90's, after fleecing the Vikings for Herschel Walker, so it probably happens all the time.

LMAO.

"2 wins or fewer"?

Let's use the Chargers, who went from 1-15 to 12-4 in four years time. By your astounding logic above, the Chiefs should be able to do this in half the time, since they had double the wins. And the Chargers have been consistent SB threats from, essentially, this time forward.

And I like how you immediately rule out any exceptions as not "serious SB threats" (a phrase not used by Dane or me in our posts). If you're in the playoffs, you have a chance. Holla, Carl.

Don't worry. No one is being too mean to Pioli in this thread. If you want him back, please...let us know.

It has nothing to do with Pioli and everything to do with your ridiculous comment. As you noted, it took 4 years for the Chargers to go from 1-15 to 12-4. Given that Dane used 4 years as his number, you've got no argument here.

1-15
5-11
8-8
4-12
12-4

Also, regarding the Bengals and Dolphins.... even conceding them, which I don't, since they were not Super Bowl threats and you've been among the group bitching about "8-8"/"first round" stuff, you've got a grand total of 2 teams in a decade, and neither for more than one season of 'glory' before falling back into the pack (one to .500 and the other to below .500 the following season).

Are you now going to claim that you want to see 11-5 and a "one and done" in the playoffs followed by .500 or worse? Is that to be your stated goal for the Chiefs?

P.S. I chose 2 wins because that's what the Chiefs had the year before Pioli arrived. It wasn't just some random number being tossed out. If you go up to 3 wins, you get to add the Saints to the list and move from "0" to "1".

Did we or did we not hire the four-time Executive of the Year? Should we not expect the best?

If the Chargers can go from 1 win to 12 in four years, getting close to this level in 3, for a team with double the wins, should be a reasonable expectation for someone of Pioli's talents.

And let's not forget that he brought a ready-now/win-now QB with him in year one. He not ****ing around with guys like Doug Flutie (who was more talented than Cassel, but I digress.)

You want another example? How about the Chiefs? The team that Vermeil inherited was an absolute disaster. The '01 team was an embarrassment. This is why records can be deceiving.

In year three we were, allegedly, SB contenders.

The bar is set for Pioli. 8-8 this year. Playoff run in '11.

No excuses. Though, I'm sure we can expect an impressive amount.

Ok, this is all my mistake. You see, I used to think you were a quality poster. I misread you at that time. I'm sorry for that.

I remember people projected 6/7/8 wins last year and we weren't even close. I'm sure it will be the same majority projection and this team will underachieve even that as we will probably see more of the same play we saw last year just with a couple of tiny rookies giving us better field position only to see Cassel hold the ball longer and throw it in the dirt for every 3 and out drive we have next season.

All posters are "quality," JPB.

Some are high-quality. Others are low-quality, and still others are of a middling-quality.

I'm sorry that Pioli's incompetence to this point has greatly offended Patriot fans.

I remember this too...People were amazingly ignorant...I basically left another message board (which will remain nameless LOL) because the 'experts' on their board all were saying 8+ wins last season...It was so reeruned...

But I do not think 6 or 7 is out of the question for 2010-2011...

I would put the over/under at 6.5 right now.

And another example of a pathetic post on your part.

Look, you made a stupid claim. It happens. Just admit it and move on. As I said, I used to think you were a quality poster. I think you let a small group of fools drag you down into the mud, and I think you can be a lot better than what you've become.

I think it's folly to make a prediction so far from the end of training camp. Injuries could play a role in such a projection, as could the addition of players at the final cut down.

That said, I can see 6-7 wins this year and if the ball falls just right, maybe a couple more.

But I definitely expect progress, regardless of the schedule. Progress from the younger players, better schemes offensively and defensively and progress from the head coach.

I think it'll make a HUGE difference offensively (and for the QB in particular) to have the duties of HC, OC and QB coach split between two men.

I think you are quite misinformed. I don't know where you got this 'information' from but I guarantee you that if we go 6-10 or 7-9 and our team has made strides in the fundamental areas (rushing the QB, making 1st downs, field position, time of possession) this year that Pioli's job is not only safe, but he will get a lot of credit and praise.

These fundamental things were completely ****ed on our team when he took over a year ago. It isn't an overnight process to change the entire culture of a team that was playing THAT poorly.....

I just think that you are flat out wrong with your black/white view of the 8-8 number. The win loss doesn't mean anything in 2010-2011. Nothing.

I don't think it's stupid to say that it shouldn't take 4 years to field a legit team in KC. We supposedly have the best GM and two of the better coordinators in the league.

We have an in-his-prime QB and one of the best RBs* in the league (completely admit that if JC regresses, that will be huge).

The defense Pioli inherited was comprised of all day-one picks on the line and a talented secondary.

Claims that the roster was "devoid of talent" are not accurate. We were missing the single biggest piece, QB, and Pioli supposedly corrected that problem.

8-8, approximately, is a perfectly reasonable expectation for 2010. Playoff run in 2011. Not saying SB in 2011, just an appearance in the playoffs.

I don't know about folly, as this same 'logic' could be applied at any time up to the season. It is just a prediction based on the information that we have at present...An injury can happen in week 8 that would just as easily screw up the over / under prediction....The only reason I even wa smentioning win loss was because of a previous post.

Folly! LOL...

AMEN! +rep...If you look at my previous post, I think we are in 100% agreement...