So after 2 years with the turd sandwich left by Herm they are supposed to be a championship team. JFC Clayton.

Herm didn't leave a turd of a team. The pieces put in place during his time were the ones who mostly carried us to the playoffs last year.

I don't mind the way Pioli's built the team so far (to some small level), but he hasn't brought anyone here that you can call a playmaker (except for Berry... and that pick was a complete no-brainer).

Yes, Herm left a turd of a team. That's what 2-14 teams are. Crappy.

If you're going to give draft credit, give it to Carl. He's the one who alienated Allen... he's the one who got a king's ransom when trading allen. He's the one who makes the draft picks.

Why do people think when Herm arrived he was suddenly 100% in control of our draft process?

They are supposed to be building towards it. You know, progress? Instead of getting outscored 102-24 in their last three games?

Actually it was Kuharick taking the draft away from Carl that got those picks here.I cant remember the stats but after Haley made the cuts in 2009 like 50 of the 61 2008 players were cut and only 2 made any other teams. That's how horrible the team was. Despite 10 good to decent players that have been coached up since then.

This was in response to the comment that the team left behind by Herm Edwards was a turd of a team. The personnel left behind during the Herm era, regardless of who gets credit, was really solid ESPECIALLY given the circumstances of the turd of a team Vermeil/Carl left for Herm.

Herm inherited a MUCH shittier situation than Haley/Pioli. A ton more.

Like I said, Pioli has done a decent job of rounding out the team in a short period of time.

But depth is stuff that puts you over the top. Playmakers are what put you in the Super Bowl. What Herm Edwards handed Pioli/Haley was a core of terrific young players, a bunch of easy-to-cut veterans, and a squeaky clean cap situation.

Herm inherited a much, much shittier situation than Haley did. He inherited a roster full of 10 years of failed drafts and a bunch of 35 year old starters.

I don't agree entirely with that though, but your opinion is yours. We had a handful of good players, a handful of decent players, and a goddamn circus side show of practice squad caliber scrubs.

I don't believe teams are defined by simply how many good players they have, but how many BAD players they have. Herm inherited a team with far fewer bad players, but fewer young ascending players.

And we were still getting WORSE 3 years after he took over. "IT's not my team yet, It's not my team yet". Barf

At least Haley's team, at some point, showed signs of progress.

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

It's pretty much well believed that Herm demanded a rebuild and Carl Peterson wouldn't let him do it. Herm had to go above Peterson's head, and it's largely believed that Clark stripped Peterson of power and gave it to Herm/Kuharich.

The team got worse in the 3rd year because Herm took the necessary step to destroy the roster of worthless, expensive veterans and focus on developing a roster of young players. Let's not act like in the 3rd year, this was a team on the decline. That 3rd year was year 1 of a massive rebuild. Most teams can rebuild in 2-3 years. In Pioli's 4th year, it still looks a little suspect.

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Yes, we had talent that had been acquired by the staff. Pretty much all of them save Flowers were underachievers. That's what coaches do.

Herm was our coach, not our GM. I was really clear about this.

All I'm getting out of this is that you think Carl is a better GM than Pioli, but want to credit Herm instead.

Herm didn't coach these players up. The only player he drafted all by himself was Carr. That was his birthday pick.

ALSO, most of those players were acquired in the 3rd year. We don't even fully know what we've gotten from the 2011 draft yet.

Seriously... **** Herman Edwards.

I don't want to credit Herm, but Carl was already here. Herm was the one who inherited almost nothing.

The current regime inherited a lot more.

Carl barely deserves any credit. That guy is the reason this team fell into the shitter. Nobody's saying anything about Herm deserving credit. We're talking about the Herm era.

But if we're talking credit, Kuharich should get credit for the personnel, and Herm should get credit for forcing the youth movement.

And while Herm doesn't deserve 100% credit for draft picks made during that era, he definitely deserves some. Coaches are very involved with the personnel process. Especially given that Kuharich and Herm were mostly on the same page.

Haley's a far better coach. But I've said for years and years that Herm got a lot of shit he didn't deserve, but that he was easily the best guy to start the process of turning this team around.

I agree that Haley/Pioli inherited more young talent.

A better TEAM from top to bottom? Not chance. The team never improved under Edwards. Not season to season,and not game to game. They never, at any point, showed even a slight sign of progress.

Why did we replace kennison with bradley? Was he better?

Why did we replace Hall with Eddie Drummond? Was he better?

Why did we replace Casey with Rudy Assmonger? Was he better?

Why in the blue **** did Tony Richardson NOT retire a Chief?

Allen didn't leave KC because he was a bad pick,and we made no effort at all to replace his production which resulted in the worst pass rush in NFL history.

The holdovers obviously would not have been as young, but if you replace 7 minor positions with inferior players (younger or not) and the whole team gets worse.

Herm inherited a roster with few quality young players ( Allen and DJ) but lots of solid veteran talent. Much of which he chose to run off before he found a suitable replacement.

Haley inherited a team with a half dozen guys with good potential, but most of them were underachievers. The bottom 30 though was FAR worse than what herm inherited.

That's my opinion anyway.