It appears that the board swallowed a post of mine... Here it is again.


Actually, you've got me out of context there... Drugs in America isn't Mexico's problem in the least. It's an American problem... Especially considering the appetite for Drugs that America has. I merely point it out as an opportunity that Mexican drug lords have in this country. And the solution that I provided for this is for the American government to take the profit out of illegal drug trade by controlling it themselves.


DING DING DING!... There we go. Now you're talking. At least you recognize that there is American influence in Mexico, and it is part of the reason they are hurting. See? That didn't hurt so bad.

Actually, if you were paying attention, then you would have noticed that I gave you credit for it.

I do? Please give me an example if you are going to make a broad sweeping statement like that. I've done no such thing. I've already taken the steps to identify the source of the symptoms in America. I said nothing of illegal immigrants being victims. Just opportunists. A lot like the illegal canadian immigrants that we all seem to be batting a blind eye toward.


Actually, it's a cultural issue. Mexico is a very religious culture... particularly toward Catholicism. They are taught as adolescents that birth control subverts the will of God, and is therefore a sin. So, no, it's not as easy as you make it sound. But we can agree that population control is of need. It's easy to identify symptoms... But if you don't go the extra steps to find the sources, you are just spinning the hampster wheel.

Or very religious. Again, it's a cultural and religious issue.

I never said that every single problem in the Mexican government is the result of American bribes... But there are plenty of problems that arise from the American bribes... And these problems lead to the symptoms of illegal immigration. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction... Yin and yang, so to speak.

I retract this post - it appears Taco answered me after all. As fucked up as the BB's been tonight, I have no trouble believing that the board ate his post.

Will read and get back to you.

Taco here is part of one of the laws to become a United States citizen.

Becoming a United States Citizen.

You will need to take a test which demonstrates that you can speak and write in English. You will also be tested on basic history and government in the United States.
You may qulify to take the exam in you native language if:

You are over 50 years old and have been a permanent U.S. resident for over 20 years.

You are over 55 and have been a permanent U.S. resident for over 15years.

So Taco, it is not about free speech. One on the laws of our country is that you must be able to read and write in English, if you want to become a citizen. This is why we teach our children in school to read and write in English. English is the language of our country. I don't believe that you will find any school district in the United States which doesn't teach English as the primary language because this would violate federal law and state law.

I did... See below..

TJ-

I've been reading that article on US immigration. It's pretty enlightening but I see a few things that I disagree with. I'll try to get my perspective to you later. It's a slow read for me.

LD

I took a lot of tests in College that I passed then, and would probably fail now. When you study specifically for the test, that seems to happen.



Actually, you're wrong. It's not a law, by any means. Such a law would be unconstitutional. There is a test that requires it, for sure. But not a law. Two very different things.

Which federal law is this? The ACLU would be all over it if there were such a law. No such law exists.

It is a free speech issue. You can't get around that. You just can't. It's there in the constitution. See "First Amendment."

Mexico's problems written by a Mexican immigrant
 

Thought some of you would be interested in reading this.

http://www.westga.edu/~bquest/1998/mexico.html

TGI

Rick, which part of "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech" do you not understand?

There is a huge difference between a test and a law.

So you did. As you will see below, I retracted what I said when I realized it.

Okay, now I might surprise you, Taco. While I am politically conservative, I am not religiously conservative. I don't put a lot of stock in organized religion, and adamantly believe that it generally causes more problems than it cures. How many unspeakable evils have been perpetrated against humanity in the name of God? We'd certainly have to start another thread to debate that one.

Now, of course I realize most Mexicans are Catholics. I know many impoverished people of the world are Catholic. But when it coves to poverty, overpopulation and the starvation of children, Catholicism simply flies in the face of logic, intelligence, and sorry to say it, decency. When it comes to third world countries, being opposed to birth control is quite simply being in favor of children starving to death. An impoverished married couple who can't afford to provide for the children they have simply shouldn't then set about having several more. This is horribly irresponsible, IMO, and not practical in this day and age. When I hear the Pope continually speak out against birthcontrol, it makes me believe that he must be oblivious to the suffering that results.

To me, religion should take a back seat to reality.

Now, I know my views on religion p!ss people off, which is why I generally avoid religious topics. But I propose a reasonable, and, IMO, necessary solution to world (not just Mexican) overpopulation and poverty.

As for the US Companies thing, yes, I know they fuck people over down there. I never said they didn't. I merely said all the problems down there aren't specifically their fault.

And I honestly never noticed any acknowledgement from you that I ever had a good idea about anything until now. Must have missed whatever comment you made about the drug thing.

Tim

Actually just fine, I am amazed at the civility on what is really a philosophical, political BB with a pretty fair split between liberal and conservative bents. Had one day where two people kind of got into it, and one wanted the other censored. I worked through it without any censoring and everything smoothed over. I have yet to need to use my Superpowers- :D but I am sure the day will come. I like all three boards and must say it is amazing as of now the Stars problem children are either behaving or have left.

Thanks for asking, would like to be on here a little more but work really has me busting my hump lately.

Taco are you so ignorant that you don't understand that there are immigration laws in this country. One of the laws to become a citizen of this country is that you must be able to read and write in English. English is the language of our country. Why do you suppose that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written in English. Why is the language on our money and coins in English? Why are all signs posted on United States Military bases in English? Have you every served in the United States Armed Forces? Everything in the military is in English. This is because this is the language of our country.
This First Amendment is about freedom of speech. No one is saying that you can not speak in your native language. But the First Amendment is not about what language you speak. It is about the freedom to speak of ones ideals and convictions. It has nothing to do with ones language. Why is all the business in our Senate and House done in English? Why does the President give all his speechs in English? You should spend a little time and study the laws of this country. You can go online to read what is required to become a citizen of this country.

Glad to hear it, Jim. Maybe I'll drop by again sometime. I am not the vehement Denise hater that some are - hell, I even agree with her occasionally :eek: .

I am, however, still waiting to see JUST ONE topic over there that actually talks about Chiefs football. Of course, those are in short supply over here as well.

What's to debate. We agree on all counts there. But as you said, it's another thread altogether.


Again, we agree on all counts. But as I've maintained, you have to attack the problems, and not the symptoms... Overpopulation is a symptom. Education is the only answer I can think of... But Education and religion don't mix, as observed by the evolution debate. All the science and reason in the world won't convince some people. Again, this is another thread. I know that there are people chomping at the bit to attack me on what I just said... Start a new thread for it if you must...

I wouldn't phrase it quite like that. As a communication specialist (that is actually my title at work) I am trained that perception IS reality. But I understand what you are trying to express.

And I agreed. But many of them are. And much of it contributes to the illegal immigration into America.

I did. We agree on the drug thing... for the most part. I think legalization is the only answer to this point as far as the drug war goes... Again, there's a whole different thread right there. I'm all about acknowledgement of the real problems right now.

For being a "conservative," you sure sound pretty liberal... Or moderate at least.

First of all you have complained a lot about me name calling against you (which I haven't this evening), yet you continue to start your posts with "you are so ignorant that..." Nice.

Second of all, I am well aware that there are immigration laws in this country. None of which are binding once you are declared a bona fide American.

Finally, which part of "Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech" do you not understand. It doesn't say "Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech so long as you are speaking English." Speech is speech. And it's all protected in America. Red, or yellow, black, or brown... Free speech is protected in America, period.

You cannot get away from this fundamental fact. All attempts will be futile.

Well, it took a while, but we finally found something to agree with. Several things. I'm a bit freaked out by this, but I'll somehow manage to carry on.

I just hope the conservatives don't hang me out to dry now.... God, I hate talking about religion.

Anyway, I should have went to bed a couple of hours ago. I'm out of here. Goodnight to all.

I can't speak for Rick, but I think his point was that just because you are free to speak Spanish doesn't mean that you aren't required to know English.

Another way to say it is that a law requiring you to know English doesn't prevent you from speaking Spanish when you want to, so therefore it isn't a violation of the first amendment.

Taco Do you know the difference between language and speech. Language is the dialect that one speaks such as English, French, Spanish, Russian, ect.
Freedom of Speech pertains to the right of the individual to speak ones thoughts and ideas. Do you not see the difference.

Yes. You are required to know english to pass the test. But that's it... Once you pass the test, you never have to speak a word of English if you don't want to. And the constitution gurantees your right not to. I realize that is an upopular thing... But the only way to get around that is to change the constitution. Cry, whine, and ***** about being respected all you want.... But it doesn't change the words "Congress shall make no law abridging the right to free speech."

I am fully aware of the difference in definition between speech and language. Language is a vehicle for speech. Without language, you cannot express thoughts or ideas. And "Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech."

Do you see that language and speech are inseperable?

TJ-

I've already agreed to that point. You don't need to be so antogonistic about it. Your communication style seems to contradict your self-professed occupation.

LD

Oh? I thought I was speaking very clearly. You have to understand that it is me against the world here, so if I'm sounding antagonistic, it is because, a) I have to cater to the masses, b) I need to do it at the most basic level, and c) I know I'm good, and when I get on a roll, I tend to get a little arrogant. Understandably so. I have really turned the tide on this board, if you haven't noticed.

The cry whine ***** comment wasn't necessarily directed at you... I was just trying to make a point, as there has been a lot of that aforementioned activity in regards to the topic.

TJ

Yes I had noticed. Congratulations on acquitting yourself so well. I was never personally against you, just against what you were doing. You'll see even in my first post I recognized that you are a worthwhile member of society. Your intelligence has been obvious to me from the beginning.

On the communication, you are correct that your words and meaning were very clear. My point was that communication is as much about listening as it is about speaking. By being antagonistic, you are putting others on the defensive, thereby decreasing the likelihood that they will listen, and increasing the likelihood that they will flail out with attacks, instead of communicating back.

I know it's you against the world on this thread. I applaud your courage in staying to fight it out.

LD

Not to ruffle too many feathers...
 

but American HAS NO official language. Look it up. Way back when, German lost out to "No official language" by one vote. America's official language was almost german, not english. English has just been spoken by the majority of immigrants, and soon, that will no longer be the case. By 2050 more americans will speak Spanish than any other language.


Better get bilingual quick!

Taco

Language and speech are entirely different. If one were to say to you the number "one" in English they would say "one." If they were to say to you "one" in Spanish the would say"uno" So as you can see "one" means "one" reguardless of what language you say it in. But it does not change the fact that English is still the language of the United States of America. This is the reason that all our schools teach English as the primary language.

Rick,
 

man, while english is the most POPULAR language in America, it is not the official language. We don't have one.

And soon, very soon, more people WILL speak spanish as their man language. Schools SHOULD start making that manditory as well...

Congress Shall Pass No Law Abridging The Freedom Of Speech.

Language is a vehicle of speech. You cannot seperate them, and Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech. Speech. It is expression. In any language. It is a constitutional gurantee.

That is "one" point you can't esacape. English, yes, is the primary language. Yes, schools teach english. But Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom to free speech.

I'm more than happy to recite the constitution over and over and over again for you, until it sinks in.

Brad you need to do a little checking of the laws of this country. To become a citizen of this country you must pass a test showing that you can read and write and have an understanding of the English language. This is the reason that English is the primary language taught in our schools. You show me one school district where anything other than English is taught as the primary language. It may not be the Official language of this country but it is the language that is spoken in most places. I just saw where a woman in Alabama lost a suit because they did not offer a drivers license test in her native language. She complained that it was unfair that the written and driving test were all done in English. The courts ruled against her.

AND FOR THE RECORD, SLAVERY IS STILL LEGAL..
 

The constitution, provided by the 13th ammendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME WHEREOF THE PARTY SHALL have been duly convicted[...])

THis states clearly that if convicted of a crime the government can LEGALLY deem you property, and a slave of the state. You can then LEGALLY be entered into slavery.


Wow...Guess what nationality makes up 72% of the prison population? You guessed it, the slaves of 200 years ago. My, how times DON'T always change....

I'll bet you they had that test available in both english and spanish though.

The woman likely wasn't speaking either.

Still, taking the test in her native language isn't a guranteed constitutional right. Speaking in her native language is though.

Rick
 

the courts at one time also ruled that "seperate but equal" was constitutional, though it clearly was not. Courts make mistakes, that one did.


We have no official language...Period.


SO being required to learn a SPECIFIC One may give you an advantage, it should NOT be required.

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree! :-)#

Brad,

And whos fault is it that they make up 72% of the prison population?

Rick
 

That's not an easy question to answer. Blacks tend to commit more crime. THe question is, why?

Poverty breeds contempt. Comtempt with the rich, with a Govt that doesn't care, with themsleves. I lucked out as a kid. I was worthless too. I got a white judge, a white officer who caught me, and NO penalty other than community service.


I nearly beat a kid to death. That is not pride. That's the worst thing one human being did to another. You know what? I feel guilty. A black kid, same town, two weeks later did the same thing. He ended up in a "looney ben." Why? He had "VIolent tendancies." No kidding. So did I.


It's called testosteroine...Men get that at puberty and loose their minds. I lucked out in an imperfect Juvenile court. Many didn't. I looked nice, dressed nice, and due to a good education could play nice and talk nice. Others couldn't. Others went "down the river." Life isn't always fair, the problem is we loose our ability to care when we hear about it soo much. It doesn't make it less true, just less important...

TJ Posted:
For your benefit, I will repost... Please keep up with the discussion next time, especially if you are going to be name calling the whole time...

Please point me to a post where I called you a name...

TJ Posted:
First of all, from your response, it is obvious that you aren't paying attention to what is going on here. You just *think* that you have.

I have read every post, although many havent because they are confused by your name calling and your confusion over illegal immigration vs. LEGAL immigration.

Since you have obviously forgotten, here's the original exchange...It pretty much broke down from here. Since I dont have post #'s, you 'll have to go back to the 3rd to last page if you dont trust my C&P:

frazod's post:
What to do about it is beyond me, expect perhaps putting a couple of army divisions on the border and kill anything that tries to cross it. That would be good for starters. Perhaps we could get a few more divisions to weed out all the illegals that are here now and ship them right the hell back from whence they came. That would be a good follow-up.

Note: I bolded some key phrases and words that fail to identify this as a strictly 'mexican' problem.

TJ's Response:
Frazod. You are a racist piece of garbage, and are the real source of problems in America....Shooting mexicans? You don't deserve the freedom this great country provides you

From that point forward, you beat the racist drum drowning out any real discussion about the problem. You were not interested in discussing it any further, rather you were interested in playing the name calling game. Lapdog, correctly, called you on it and at that point only after reading the entire thread, agreed and tried to get an explanation from you as to your errant use of the word fascist.

Now, let's respond to your 'opportunity' editorial.

Your first comment was that wages in mexico are terribly low and that this the result of because of American infulence in Mexican politics. I dont believe this to be true and would appreciate a source/link or some factual background.

You go on to state that American companies enjoy 'cheap' labor. Cheap in relation to what? To American labor? Yes, they are different. The reason for this is America has Labor Unions that have driven the price of labor very high, also the American worker is more skilled and more efficient than foreign labor. Most American workers are not willing to work or do the work that, in this case, Mexican nationals do, so American companies take some mfg plants to Mexico where they can produce goods at a lower per unit cost.

So you conclude that since the American economy is willing to pay higher wages for unskilled jobs, this is the reason for illegal immigration. I disagree, the lure, yes, is the high wages, but illegal immigration happens because it is EASY to illegally cross the U.S. Border, be it Texas, Florida, California or the Northern Border.

This EASE is what I consider to be the problem, not the U.S. Economy or the minimum wage of unskilled work.

Now, you ask me to consider what happens if we stop illegal immigration. Your conclusion is that Farmers will have to pay Americans higher wages or go out of business. The farming industry is a dying industry because mechanized farms can do the work faster and cheaper, my guess would be that since no one could 'pick beets', beet prices would rise, demand would grow, and it would become financially lucrative for an entrepreneur to figure out a way to farm beets for a profit.

So, in short, you have stated that American economy, which you label 'opportunity' is to blame. I disagree, I believe the problem is the 'opportunity' to break the law exists.

As far as solutions, I dont see you offering any, so why should anyone else? You 'seem' to have it all figured out...Im guessing that from your identification of the problem, one should eliminate the 'temptation' of opportunity thus solving the problem.

As for your second issue, the drug problem, you might be suprised to know that I agree that the U.S. should consider legalizing and regulating certain narcotics. Of course, Im a firm believer that if you want to essentially eliminate something, let the government regulate it.

Last, I would guess that many of the problems could be resolved if the Mexican govt spent more time trying to better its economy and allowing its workers to organize into Union labor just as the American economy needed to many years ago. Mexican govt could establish a minimum wage for its labor base as well.

Unfortunately, as the U.S., we cannot write Mexican laws. That requires the Mexican govt.
How would YOU eliminate 'opportunity'?

Blah blah blah.

I believe my eyebrows were just singed off by all the hot air contained in this thread.

Yeah. After that last post Clint just made, mine are too.

Hey Clint. If you take away the jobs, you take away one of the major reasons to cross the border in the first place. A very large portion of the illegal immigrants that cross do it only for the summer jobs, and go back to Mexico to live like kings after the harvest.

You're telling me that the chicken crossed the road just to get to the other side. I'm telling you that the chicken crossed the road to get the bigger worms.

I don't have time this morning to get into it in any depth, but we can all take comfort knowing that I'm right.

Then why in the he!! are you demanding that we give solutions? You, who seems to have the problem cornered, can't give us a solution but, you insist that we come up with one. Until you are ready to suggest a course of action, quit harping on others to do it. The age old saying of "practice what you preach" applies here.

What the he!! are you talking about? I addressed your point about Mexico being one bid desert. Please keep up with the conversation next time.... (paybacks are a b i itch aren't they?):D

Hey Donko,
I hate to burst your bubble (not really), but if you go back and read the Founders words you would see that freedom of speech was put into place mainly for political reasons. They didn't want your political speech silenced. Nor other forms of speech, but the main reason was for politics, not so you would feel at [your old] home speaking your native tounge.

Personally, this thread is beginning to bore me a bit. I think all parties have very clearly expressed their views. Hopefully this thread will go the way of the Star BB's infamous "Pray for Elian."

I'm simply posting my thanks that no one has offered me up as the dictator du jure during my absence. I was starting to develop a complex....

Taco knows that 1 of 3 Californians are Mexican, and that whites are the minority in almost every major city. He's just biding his time.

Racism is double-edged sword, John. All races have racists.

Frazod-

Me too. It actually happened yesterday or the day before for me. I've just been participating when someone directly addresses or replies to me.

Cheers
LapDog

Well yeah LapDog, I'd be tired of this topic as well if I had taken the time to put together such an arduous summary of Donko's hate filled posts as you did.:)

Perusing the archives....this was a doozy.... :hmmm:

You're an American!

But, are you good?????

Not really a doozy. But look at all the guests in this thread.

I believe this was the first ever thread created on www.chiefsplanet.com

What is with the ancient bumps today?

And CP was started in August of 2000, not May of 2001.

Shit. It was the oldest thread I could find. :(

I want to think I am a good American but not sure...

4 months before 9/11... Seems like he was trying to get out in front of something........

What a stupid ass, load of shit, fence sitting, indecisive, completely worthless OP

DaFace would know for sure, but I think there was a purge of posts and threads from the first couple of months of CP's existence when they upgraded the servers at some point? Not just wholesale anything from Day One to whenever, but a good deal of it was lost.

Re: re: re: re: re: re: re: I am a GOOD American

COVER UP!! :p

I am afraid of Americans.

FWD to 7 people or your computer will blow up on Y2K!

Football should start in July at the latest.

You’re a malicious twat.

The internet is full of them. Now more than ever.

I like this one though...

Interesting thread from a lot of angles. Miss some of the now gone really quality posters who could have a real conversation. Hard to imagine things in 2001 have steadily worsened. But then we now have an opportunity for a threepeat and we had no hopes in 2001

Bad Broncos board owner tho.

I believe that's the case, but all that happened before I was around here, so I don't really know the details. :shrug:

This provides a baseline that allows us to track progression of mental illness.

What do you call an unnatural seggs-yule attraction to lady midgets?

There a name for that?

Microphilia perhaps? I'm at work, and not gonna search for this in an effort to keep my gainful employment, but I feel like something like that could be it. Perhaps there's a term for difference in sizes that isn't coming to mind.

There's a name for it, but it escapes me at the moment.

Guy blew up his own board because he thought the lizard people in the government were out to get him.

It really goes to show how insane people can be.

Just the fact that you have questions makes you a better American than a lot of people right now. Means you're closer to the middle than the far-left/right, and those dipsticks are NEVER right, never good for the country, and are definitely never good Americans.

I know right. Next thing you know he will be ripping full posts off reditt and claiming they are his own thoughts.

Did someone talk? Didn't think so.

The irony of it is that's probably the only prediction he's ever made that's true. You just know that nutjob is being watched by several 3 letter government agencies

FBI, CIA, NSA...DCF?

You are a gigantic bundle of sticks and a massive liability to this board. Should have been banned along time ago

I just got a thumbs down on a post I made 23 years ago. That's gotta be a record. LMAO

Congrats?

lol