man that Derek Jeter sucks too!

Funny how Jones never went on the DL til he was 32, isn't it?

I'm not even going to mention how awful Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz are...they are way past their primes! So is that Vladimir Guerrero.

He is having the worst year of his career. Do you enjoy making my argument for me, or are you really this dumb?

but those power numbers sure are regressing! I mean, .370 and 18 HR's in 89 games...he's really losing a ton of power! He'd be on pace for like, 34 HR's! That's like, not even close to that career 31 HR's he averages!

I know, man! Look how much he's regressed! It's sickening...

They need to cut his ass...sure, he had identical years in 2002 and 2004...but he's just too old now, totally useless.

and Bobby Abreu...yikes man! He's way past his prime!!!

those 15 HR's, 76 RBI's and 14 SB's aren't right on track to his career numbers or anything...

HANG 'EM UP, BOBBY!

The same Ortiz who his 22 fewer homers in his age 32 year, or the one who is hitting .250 this year?

The same Manny whose homer totals decreased by 10 and then by another 15 the last two years?

The same Vlad whose .OPS is down 100 points this year?

Are you this dumb?

I don't even want to talk about Magglio Ordonez...that fool hit .363 at age 33...he's down .45 points this year at age 34...at this rate, he'll be hitting in the negatives in 5 years or so!!!

YOU'RE DONE MAGS

You know, Hootie, it's amazing how well all those teams who bought championships like the Yankees did, have done. Except for the fact that the core of those Yankees teams were brought up by Stick Mitchell through the draft.

Just keep signing 32 year old free agents and giving up 1st rounders as compensation. Please.

I know, right! Vlad only has 20 HR's so far...his age, wow...by next season he'll be in double A!

and I told you not to talk about ManRam!! .317 with 24 HR's and 77 RBI's!!! At age 36?! Shit...I can only imagine next season! He's done. He's a waste of a roster slot.

Please, sign him.

Oh wait, I forgot about your rebuttal. That guy who complied a thorough statistical analysis spanning ten years he's "homo" and

"I play in a $1000 a person per year fantasy league with my daddy's money".

Yes, you have excellent credentials.

I'm the biggest Yankee hater in the world...I laugh at all of the mistakes Cashman made (Sheffield over Guerrero, the list is endless)...

Worst ran franchise in sports...well, almost as bad as the Knicks...

And the amazing thing about the Cubs is...they've made almost every right move. Hendry should be executive of the year...

The Cubs are set...the Cardinals are not. The Cardinals have very little talent on the major league squad and prospects are prospects, you never know how they are going to turn out...

So, you can have your squad and that 3rd place rebuilding tag for the next 5 years, and I'll take the Cubs and 5 straight division titles!

Hyeah!

And players 40+ were doing as well as they were when they were 30...that was the biggest bullshit article I've ever read.

If you think Lee, Soriano, Ramirez and Fukodome are just going to suddenly suck in a year or two you are downright reeruned.

Players of that caliber don't forget how to play baseball all of the sudden...

Torii Hunter has had his best three years after the age of 31...

Man...he blows.

Hey we had the runner in scoring position before extra innings and didn't get it done.

They got the hit we didn't. Congats and a tip of the hat to the victors. See ya tommorrow.

Yeah, it's crazy how they could have 26 World Series and 39 American League pennants, and not have had a losing season since 1992, being the worst run franchise in professional sports.

Ok, I'm going to go slow, since your education horribly failed you.

1) You have a complete inability to grasp the content of any of the posts in these threads. You vacillate from extremes like the "Oh Noes" "We're Doomed" .gif.

Example: I say Soriano was a second baseman.

Result: You go off on an off-base harangue about how he played left in Washington, and because of this fact, I don't know what I'm talking about despite the fact that I a) Never said he played second in Washington, and b)he broke into the bigs as a second baseman..


Furthermore, I mention that player's primes are from 27-32. You say they are from 30-35. I show you a statistical analysis to prove my point, and you call the guy a homo and say it's not valid because he scaled the at bats to 600.

I hate to point this out to you, but he scaled them to 600 so that you could have an accurate predictor per age-per person. .OPS and average numbers do not change with at bats, since they are--gasp--averages. Even if someone went on a tear from at bat 600-650, someone else would have done so from 550-600. He has 1000 individual samples, it's not like he took three players and extrapolated his thoughts from them.


Now...back to your idiocy. I say a player's prime ends at 32, and you some how extrapolate this to mean that once they are 33 they aren't even replacement-level players. You truly are a dumb motherfucker. There's a reason why they call them decline years and not "goes back to the International League" years. Yes, they are still productive players, but they aren't what they once were. Yes, you will have statistical anomalies, but banking on a statistical anamoly to help you win is how guys like JP Ricciardi get the reputation that they do.




Once again, I would like you to explain to me why 87/100 of the top 100 home run hitters of the last decade hit their homer peak before age 33, and why that isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

Moving on, I say that second baseman have the weakest arms of position players in baseball and you tell me I'm full of shit that they have laser rocket arms, when it is well established that they don't. In fact, the only piece of support (from a blog) that you could drag up was in relation to the hitting power of a second baseman, rather than their throwing arm.

You seem to think that because I say they have weak arms that means that one of us can throw harder.

You're a dipshit. Jamie Moyer is a soft-tossing pitcher, but...gasp...it doesn't mean that some guy off the street can throw 84. The same goes with Trevor Hoffman. But your infantile ass seems wholly incapable of understanding this patently obvious fact that anyone else in the thread realizes simply because they are intelligent enough to have achieved consciousness.


What players who were 40+ were doing as well as the 30 year old players? He had 5 people in his study who hit more than 50 homers after 32. 5.

How many did it before? 14. Nearly three times as many.

How many seasons did players have who hit 40+ homers after 32? 20

Before 32? 112. 5 1/2 times as many

How many season did players have who hit 30+ homers after 32? 62

How many before 32? 322. Again 5 1/2 times as many.


You are without a shadow of a doubt one of the dumbest mother****ers to ever disgrace the surface of this earth.

Please, refute these numbers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/ba...page=age27myth

they spend 200+M every year and make mistake after mistake with contracts...the fact they haven't won a title since 2000 is a joke...they have such an advantage over EVERY SINGLE team in baseball...

I love watching them fail.

You guys need to lay off 2nd base!:cuss:
http://www.save2ndbase.com/images/pww2.jpg

Hamas always gets so worked up...it's funny. I imagine that pseudo-intellectual homo just ****ing beat red at his computer cursing up a storm everytime he tries arguing with me...I wish I had the thread where I got him so worked up he "blocked" me and "ignored" all my posts because I proved him wrong about something...I should really bookmark these things sometimes...

Anyways...

Chances are...

Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez and Alfonso Soriano will all be productive MLB players past the age of 35...they might have a down year one year, and then a super productive year the next...that's how baseball works. Soriano would be on pace for 50+ HR's this year if not for fluke injuries.

As for 2nd baseman not having good arms...

Dig up some younger 2nd baseman, go look at their minor league resumes or draft cards, and you'll see they were mostly all SS or 3rd baseman...or catchers even.

The vast majority of the 'young crop' of 2nd baseman have great arms. 2nd base is the next 1st base power wise...look at all of the 2nd baseman this year with huge HR totals...

The game evolves Dumbass...this isn't 1950...2nd baseman aren't 150 lbs and they don't steal 90 bases anymore...there is a reason why teams have DeRosa's...guys who play 3rd, OF, 2nd...2nd is just sort of a position you can filter in one of your power hitting SS from the minors these days...just like Soriano when he came up with the Yankees years ago...he was a SS in the minors...hence the reason he has such a great arm you didn't know about until I told you today...

SS is a glamour position...teams draft tons of SS' every year out of high school because that's where the best athletes play...you said it yourself, Pujols was a friggin' SS...

When Nomar was good, there were talks of him going to the Yankees to team with Jeter and Arod...meaning THREE SS would be playing in the infield...

But you're too thickheaded to understand...

You cherry picked like 10 guys and claimed they had weak arms...if you know so much about infielders from obscure teams (you never see these guys play you ****ing tool) then you'd know Soriano has an above average arm...something you had no clue about until the game today.

So seriously, fake smart guy, STFU...you may think you sound intelligent, and you might think you're the smartest person of all time...but you know, and I know, it's all a little act...probably stems from having a small penis so you have to take it out on all of us "dumb" people...

****stick.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-arms-of-2007/

People don't usually talk about the arms of left fielders, but Alfonso Soriano is definitely generating some buzz. This past season, Soriano tied for the major league lead in OF assists with 19 and was the only left fielder with more than 13 assists. In 2006, he led all outfielders with 22 assists, no other left fielder had more than 12. This year, in terms of Runs/200, our ranking criterion, the ex-second baseman completely lapped his left field mates, lapped them two or three times, as you can see in the table below.

so, for three straight years now, Soriano has been amazing in terms of throwing runners out or assisting outs from the outfield...yet Hamas, who knows every 2nd baseman and their arm strength (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=223) just now figured out, today, Soriano has among the leagues best, if not the leagues best, arm in the outfield...and he gets to watch the Cubs several times a year because of WGN and because they play against the Cardinals...

So, he knows "Kinsler has an awful arm. Kennedy's is weak for a major league player, Luis Castillo does not have a strong major league arm, nor do Ellis, Carroll, Barfield, Kendrick, Kelly Johnson, Hudson, Cairo, among others." this...about obscure 2nd basemen from obscure teams that are rarely televised, but Soriano was news to him today...

Can you talk out of your ass anymore Mr. Intellectual Cool Guy!?

LMAO

Kennedy plays every day for the Cards, I see Carroll play all the time because he was on the Rockies, and I have three Rockies on my fantasy team. I saw Barfield play in Cleveland when I lived in Ohio and only got STO. Cairo is a former Cardinal, Johnson plays for the Braves and a lot of their games are readily available. I saw Castillo play multiple times in the '03 playoffs, Hudson and Kinsler have both been on my fantasy teams, so I have watched games that they've played many times.

Again, thanks for attempting to refute your dumbass claim that players peak from 30-35. We'll just ignore that one won't we. Or the fact that you claim that players hit just as many homers at 40. Or that you put your weakest hitters at left field, and your weakest arms.

If I'm so worked up, and you're so calm and cool, why do you keep digging up these blogs to talk about Soriano's arm?

By the way, the time that I did block you was because people asked me why I kept pushing your shit in in every thread you bitched in. I took advice from Donger, and just blocked your ass. It got tired and old because you're like a little Chihuahua with his dick hanging out. You've got to run into every room and yap about what a badass you are. It doesn't matter if it's a football thread, video game thread, a thread about computers, poker, or baseball, it's the same old tired schtick.

And for the record, other than A-Rod and a roided up Tejada, there never were a ton of homerun hitting shortstops.

Utley and Uggla are the only two shortstops with more than 16 homers this year. There are 15 3B with more than 16 homers, and about 15 1st baseman with more than 16.

Please, continue talking out of your ass though, as 2B is such a huge power position.

Power hitting SS, huh?

If 2nd is so important, why aren't these people drafted as 2B? If second is so important, why do so many shortstops get moved there when they can't hack it at short, despite the fact that there are two shortstops with more than 16 homers this year?

Those are still the two positions with the least amount of power (outside of catcher) at the big league level, which was the entire point of my MI post (which you again weren't smart enough to understand, as I said "power hitters get moved to the corner infield or outfield because those are your power producing parts of the lineup".)

In summation, Hootie's argument is that power hitting shortstops get moved to second despite the fact that there are the same number of power hitting 2nd baseman as there are shortstops in the bigs, two. Furthermore, 2nd is the new first, despite the fact that there are 7 times more first baseman with 15+ homers than 2nd baseman.

For a student of the game and a fantasy God, you'd think you'd know a little bit more about stats than what you do.

I just saw the replay of the first Jim Edmonds home run. That was bush league. Looking over at the dugout and flipping the bat towards where Larussa is sitting in the dugout.

I bet he gets hit by a pitch and we have a brawl in the next two days.

You and I both know that Tony doesn't play that.

Funny how he wasn't acting like a badass when he wore the sombrero in his first game against us, eh?

I think there was something between Tony and Jim that never was made public. Exchanged words in front of the team, refused to do something Tony told him to do?

Oh there was definitely a falling out, but Tony just doesn't throw at people. Now some guys, like Carp or Wainwright, will bean motherfuckers, but the edict won't come from Tony.

It may come from a player. The dudes showing us up. Put him in his place.

from Bernie,

When FSN Midwest’s Brent Stover and Mike Claiborne (KTRS) approached Edmonds after the game for a quickie on-field interview that’s a standard courtesy for rights holders, Edmonds blew them off and said.

”’I’m (censored) done with St. Louis TV and radio and I’m (censored) done with the Cardinals,’ ’’

And then he walked into the Cubs dugout.

ALL HAIL LASSIE, KING CARD-KILLER

The Cards are going to get sweeped! Hahahahahahaha!

It'll pass. Remember when Neal Smith went to the Broncos? A lot of harsh things were said on both sides. I see hm at Chiefs charity events and out at the games now.


I don't think Jummy has anything against the fans. For crissakes they gave him a standing O when Larussa sais we should ignore him. Probably not too far from Allen's situation with the Chiefs. Hates King Carl but loves the fans.

**** Jared Allen.

For the last time, Soriano gets more assists than anyone else because he is challenged more than anyone else. But alas, I'm arguing with Hootie again.

I don't put much stock in Bernie's articles. I'm not a Cardinals OR a Cubs fan, btw.
In the interests of what was really written, though: Here's the link to the article:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...3?OpenDocument
(if this doesn't open here's the link to the sports page http://www.stltoday.com/sports/cards ) where you can check out any of the Cardinal-Cub game Post articles.)

There is no "(censored)" in the Edmonds quote as published by Bernie in the Post.

Bernie makes this huge deal about Edmonds flipping his bat at the Cardinals dugout and staring at them after his first home run. Bernie interprets this as "Take this bat, Tony La Russa. Take this bat and..."
When asked about this in another Post article (by Joe Strauss), La Russa is quoted as saying, “Everyone flips the bat. Why do you want to stir up stuff like this? He’s been a good player his whole career and he had a good day. I didn't notice… that’s just the way the game is played today.”

I think "Edmonds hates the Cardinals" and "anti-Cubs"stuff simply sells more papers in St Louis and that's why Bernie (among others) writes this kind of stuff.

Atta Boy, Jimmy!
:thumb:

See this is what I'm talking about. It was percieved as dissing the Cardinals. Showing them up. It was talked about on sportscenter. The players watch sportscenter. They are being percieved as being "shown up". Baseball etiquette says retribution musr be paid. Bob Gibson style. Just let them hit themselfs and let the benchs clear. Its time for a Cubs/Cardinals bench clearning brawl anyway. Its been too long.

In the words of Maverick, the Cubs lineup is a "target rich environment".

It was Mike Claiborne of KTRS, not Bernie. My bad.

You can't hit Edmonds and you want to wait until the later innings. Maybe send Franklin in there to plunk a guy. We won't miss him for a few games. No need to head hunt. Just plunk him in the thigh.

I bet the umpries warn them before the game. Its a nationally televised game. MLB doesn't want a bench clearing brawl on national TV.

Especially if we are getting our ass's handed to us we had better respond. This pussification of America stops now. Long live Gibby!:clap:

Sportscenter,CNN,NFL Network etc. it's still media hype,hell even La Russa said as much in that quote on the previous page.

People were complaining about it long before it was on Sportscenter, trust me.


http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/

LaRussa is just proving again that he's a pussy who doesn't "play that game".

I'm sue you guys don't know but Tony Larussa is old school but not old school in plunking guys and bench clearning brawls. His teams rarley retaliate. It's just his style. I would never expect anything to come from him but the players after seeing how its playing in the national media may take it upon theirselfs unless Tony forbids them to throw at someone.

probably the attorney in him

Baseball brawls are usually the lamest things ever. Someone gets hit in the legs or shoulder after a home run, He charges the mound. A couple of wild haymakers are thrown that land about .05% of the time and then everyone piles on the two combatants to stop further bloodshed.:shake:

And it's a good thing too because Big Zambrano would WTFP the entire Cardinals roster by himself.

Well, maybe for the exception of Pujols, I hear roids block pain. :D

Noone gets a chance to wail like Nolan Ryan did.

But if they were allowed Pujols would put him in a headlock ala Nolan Ryan and wail on him. Have you ever saw him in person? The dude is large.

Unless you're a Cub farmhand, in which case you attempt to murder someone in the dugout and instead hospitalize a fan.

I was in the bleechers last time I saw the Cards at wrigley. That combined with my intoxication didn't really help me see anyone. I did ,however, attend the Cubs last home game in '07 vs the Pirates. I sat 6 rows behind home plate. Zambrano pitched, and the guy is a complete monster. The Chiefs could use him as a guard...No Kidding.

On a side note, it was awsome sitting that close. I could actually hear the ball wizzing through the air when he pitched.

I would love a brawl today. But if you're gonna go after Edmonds, you do it in the first at-bat, shoulda been done yesterday. You don't retaliate when it's convenient for you, if you're gonna make a statement, you make the damn statement.

Another plus to a brawl would be the inside corner would be gone the entire day. And if Z-Pack throws inside maybe he'll get bounced too. :D

So far Skip has owned Zambrano, who has owned Wellemeyer.

Bout time Glaus did something!

Troy Glaus sighting...

Actually the funniest part of Wed. night's game was Glaus popping out in the 7th, then slamming one batting glove down, taking 10 seconds to take the other one off, then slamming that one down.

Glaus cracks me up.

I love Edmonds' excuses:

It was the concussion medicine

I changed my swing for Petco

It's hard to hit to the opposite field in Busch III


We'll just forget that Busch III has a park factor of 100.

Wellemeyer looks like a thinner version of Jeff Healey in Road House

Lopez just pwns Zambrano.

Nice job brushing off Glaus, big Z

ROFL ROFL


Where's Hootie??

I thought we were gonna get "sweeped"?

Wellemeyer looks pretty good today other than the gopher ball to Zambrano.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2d9s7di.jpg

That's some Ty Cobb shit right thurr.

Take that Zambrano.

Glaus is out of his Cubs slump.

I like the excuse where he's got an OPS+ of 156 as a Cub.

Cards need to continue the ass whooping and rub it in a bit after yesterdays let down.

The thorough piss-pounding continues and Hootie is nowhere to be seen.

Man, what are the Cubs going to do...the Cardinals are only 7 games back in the loss column now!

Ass whoopin is on!

We're gonna get "sweeped"!!

http://www.mytinyphone.com/uploads/u...eya/150901.gif

I underestimated that amazing roster the Cardinals have...

Yeah, it's almost like we don't have four guys with 22 or more homers during a rebuilding year.

More amazing is that we killed Zambrano. I can't stand him. No better pitcher to hit 4 HR off of. He didn't seem too cocky today on the mound.:)

what is rebuilding in baseball?

Honestly.

When was the last time the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Cubs, Mets, etc. etc. etc. rebuilt?

Rebuilding is just your excuse for your team having such a shitty roster full of guys playing absolutely out of their ass...take LaRussa off that bench and that team is 10 games under .500.

Rebuilding is for teams like the Royals who can only afford to spend $50M a year...

W.

the funny thing is...you have guys like Ludwick who have been career minor leaguers having monster seasons...guys like Lohse, Wellemeyer, Looper who have always sucked ass...playing insane ball and you're STILL 7 games back in the loss column.

Talent wise, I'd almost take the Royals players over the Cardinals...put LaRussa in KC and they'd be 9 games over .500 too...

I am lost on your point. What are you trying to say? The Cards would suck if TLR wasn't managing or they would suck if they really were rebuilding?

Who is playing out their ass by the way? Ludwick was unknown but beside that who is putting up unreal numbers?

The bullpen is but in a bad way. Your post makes no sense to me.

Take LaRussa off that bench and we'd be in first place...

And for the record, shitface, we're six games back.

Cards are 11 games over and no, the Royals wouldn't be.

I think you are forgetting Dave Duncan as well. LaRussa ddn't make the pitchers better.

and for the record, shitface, you're 7 out in the loss column (you REALLY need to learn how to read, you n00b yourself every fucking time!)