now you have said here that smith is rated high,why is he rated high? his pass blocking. you dont agree with his rating because he's from the spread. thats the reason he's rated high. so the spread made him look better than what in your opinion he is. right?

How much of that is on the quarterback and how much of that is on the other players and the coaches?

Shutting down some slapdick in college and doing it successfully against the best of the best in the NFL are different things.

....way to undervalue the most important position on the team.

damn Trent Green(who we were talking about) was on the team in 1997?

They won't win any games!
They shoulda won some more games!

:rolleyes:

That isn't what he said. He said that Smith, because of college scheme, wasn't asked to do some of the run blocking things that will be required of him in the pros.

Uh no he's rated high because he's athletic, BEING FROM THE SPREAD MEANS HE HAS LITTLE EXPERIENCE RUN AND DRIVE BLOCKING WHICH DRAWS A FLAG FROM ME.

Jesus Christ is this really hard to understand?

the spread makes them look the part though, i dont see how you 2 dont get this

Look at that a man who understands a logical point.

nope he's rated high because he's protected his qb(in the spread of course, which made himm look better, the ball comes out faster)

LOL, the QB is the rims? I'd think the QB would be more like fixing the steering on a ****ed up car.

You really should go register at WPI you'd fit in well over there.

I'm not arguing that fact at all. But I have repeatedly seen Mecca say he wouldn't take an OLineman from a spread offense.

Now that only thing I can draw from that is because the spread covers some of the lines defaults. If linemen operating in the spread is actually HARDER for them as Mecca is saying in this thread, then shouldn't we be trying to draft them?

This, actually, perfectly sums up the difference between the pro-Thigpen camp and the pro-1st round QB camp:

Some posters see the QB position as the rims on a car. Other posters see he QB as the engine of the car.

Man between this and reading all those WPI threads I have a headache now.

I can appreciate your aggrivation. Though spreading the offense doesn't help the O line it does help the QB. The state of the O line when we went to the spread was a disaster. Basically your choices were to line up behind center, hike the ball and be running for your life before you could get a 5 step drop, or to be set at the snap looking for your target.

The O line was a big reason we had to go to the spread because they gave no time for the drop back.

Listen people, we couldn't run, we couldn't pass, we couldn't do squirt until we went to the shotgun. Part of that reason may have been the QB. But there's no doubt the O line couldn't hold a block long enough to do anything else.

Going to a spread may hurt an O lineman that can normally hold a block. But if you are a turnstyle then you have no choice but to go to shotgun. Not being able to run the ball only made it worse.

I wouldn't use a top 10 pick on a OT from the spread that has little to no experience run blocking or lining up with his hand on the ground..

Top 10 OT's should be nearly complete players not players who need to completely learn how to do an entire facet of the game.

[QUOTE=doomy3;5477618]I'm not arguing that fact at all. But I have repeatedly seen Mecca say he wouldn't take an OLineman from a spread offense.

Now that only thing I can draw from that is because the spread covers some of the lines defaults. If linemen operating in the spread is actually HARDER for them as Mecca is saying in this thread, then shouldn't we be trying to draft them?[/QUOTE]

he has actually said that it hides their faults

Not at all. That is just this guy's opinion.

It helps QB's who can't read defenses or drop back properly.

I thought you meant Gonzalez.

You know, TG.

TG almost universally means Gonzo around here, Trent is either TrINT, Trent, or Green.

And that crappy OL gave up more sacks in the spread than they did in normal pro set.

No kidding I thought he was talking about Gonzo as well.

WHAT lj averaged 4.8 yards a carry. on that subject to OTW: if he ran the ball 20 times had a 63 yard rush and 19 1 yard rushes he would have a 4 YPC avg would you call that effective?

It's Jason...

Think.

Why does the spread make them look better than they are?

One, they rarely have to run block.

Two, the QB gets the ball out so quickly that there's no time to give up a sack. That's not protection. That's being the beneficiary of the system.

That isn't the case in the NFL.

We threw more.

As a wide receivers coach? No.

Most recent one as a head coach? Yes.

Most recent SB winner versus the other? Yes.

The only difference was that Thigpen produced on the field. We just had the worst defense in the league to go "help" him.

once again we were talking ABOUT TRENT GREEN in that conversation. why would you assume that all of a sudden it changed to gonzalez?

So you're saying you agree?

but those two things are exactly what we did last year. We threw quick and we didn't run the ball. So it did help our pathetic oline.

There's always an excuse, people made them for Croyle last year.

Is it false?

hey i'm not the one who all of a sudden forgot who we were talking about

TG stands for Gonzales around here. Nobody ever calls Green - TG.

really? then why when it matters most do ALL teams go to the spread?

The spread and the pistol...

so ****ing what. we were talking about trent green in big games, its pretty obvious, **** OTW is the one who brought it up, and you saying ANYTHING IS FUNNY when you cant even SPELL his ****ing name right

Uh what...if you're talking 2 minute drill its because the defense knows you're passing the ball...

You don't do it for an entire game because it's not wise to tip off your plays before the snap.

It's a transition thing. Making the transition from college to the NFL.

Being a LT in a spread offense in college is easy. You rarely have to run block, you rarely have to pass block for more than 2 seconds, and you're lining up against a lot of guys on a week to week basis that will be doing something other than playing football for a living - with rare exception.

Being a LT in a true spread offense in the pros would be hell.

You're facing the best of the best, week in, week out, and have to actually hold your block long enough for NFL level plays to develop - combined with the added speed of the game - and you're ****ed. And that's just the pass blocking part of the equation.

This.

Thigpen is just another Printers, Grigsby, Sippio. Chiefs fans are just attached to shit players.

Marc Boerigter FTW!

No, it didn't.

Look at the sack numbers.

I've posted them several times.

why do you always use him? he got hurt, knee injury, wasnt the same after

It's only important if the rest of the team is worth a sh**... I'm saying you shouldn't worry too much about that until you have the other major problems fixed.

yup,people actually thought he could be a starting wide out ROFL

You really have no idea what the spread actually is, do you?

The 2-minute offense is not necessarily a true spread offense.

And FWIW, "when it matters most" usually means when you're desperate to get points to win/tie a game. You don't go to this crap for an entire game.

You get your QB first then fix the rest.

I think a top 5 pick QB is like the rims. So few of those guys are really worth the money. You just don't know and it's fine if you have the luxury of f-ing around with them, but we don't we have real needs at other positions. I just don't want to be sitting here next october bitching about how Sanchez doesn't have any time to throw or how it sucks that he had a season ending injury in the first game of the season because our o-line is crap.

It is fine and dandy to use the spread offense, but you aren't ever going to make the Super Bowl running just the spread offense in the NFL.

croyle didnt get sacked as much because when he played we were a run first team, the pass suprised the defense, not so with thigpen

What teams have actually done that successfully? Go from a 2-14 team drafting a QB to a SB contender with that QB. I just can't think of any that have done it.

Pittsburgh
Dallas
Indianapolis

Why does it have to be 2-14?

Pittsburgh was 6-10 the year before they drafted Roethlisberger.

The Giants were 4-12 the year before they drafted Eli.

Indy was 3-13 the year before they drafted Peyton.

The last 3 SB winners, and you can't think of any?

From wikipedia:

The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tteStadium.jpg

Considering the only other players worth taking with the 3rd pick are defensive players, his logic makes no sense. We can put talent around our QB with other picks and future first rounders.

sounds like most teams' 2 minute offense to me

I'm not able to post links yet, so this will have to do:

This is from a Boston Globe column on December 12, 2007. The writer was Mike Reiss:

It's not 100%, but it's a lot, and it's been very successful.

Yep. It helps though to have a great QB like Brady with 2 very good WR's with Moss and Welker

Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone can say the Pats haven't been using a variation of the spread for awhile now.

Okay, you (and Chiefscountry) have a good point. I didn't think those teams were that bad before drafting those QBs. My mistake. However, let's not use 2-14 then. How about winning 2 out of 25? I'm surprised that's not an NFL record for futility.

Well, Belichick and Meyers are friends, and Belichick spent time studying what Meyers is doing down in Florida before this season.

ROFL

Stafford/Sanchez likely wouldn't start for us next year anyways... you continue to upgrade the roster and build around them. No one is expecting Super Bowl or even Playoffs next year. If your homer ass is, die in a fire before your disappointed.

Dallas sucked before they took Aikman and sucked with him. Pittsburgh blew balls before they got Bradshaw as well. Colts sucked before and with Manning.

Its Meyer not Meyers.

Give me Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker and a competent line and I'll show you that you can successfully run any offense.

And for the other guy you do know that the best lines in the league are largely built out of the 1st round yes?

I actually know that, but thanks. I'm so used to writing Meyers for business purposes that it's just muscle memory. Now that you've caught that, I'll have to look out for it.

Thanks again.

And that's because you don't know how to rate QB's.

And furthermore, I'll ask again: Who said anything about wanting an average QB?

Please explain.

Is stupid

I said I wouldn't want one of those 3 guys as our franchise QB. I don't think I lumped anyone else into that, did I?

Now, I will ask you. Would you be happy with any of those 3 guys as our Franchise QB? Would you be happy with drafting Stafford or Sanchez if we had a crystal ball and could see that is what they would amount to? Clearly, they are "Pro Bowl" QBs, so what do you think?

Bullshit.

Anyone that thinks that a QB coach can turn an untalented, weak-armed player into a Pro Bowl, Super Bowl player is a moron.

KY and TP...

I do agree with this.

I have never seen QB coach more glorified or demonized in the case of Dick Curl as on this board. It's absurd.

People act like Dick Curl ruined the team, it is hilarious.

This is the year to get the damn QB, this year has the top 2 guys as pro style QB's next year is all spread monkeys.

Not to mention next year has an abundance of top flight defensive players.

One of what three guys? Harrington? Are you asking me if with the number three overall pick, I'd be happy with production similar to Joey Harrington's in Detroit?

What the **** kind of question is that? Do you think I'm a moron?

Are you asking me if I'd be happy if the Chiefs got the kind of production out of the number three pick as Bulger, Hasselbeck and Delhomme?

I'd have to say yes. Why not? Two Super Bowl QB's? I'd take that.

we heard you the first eleventy billion times.