The 90s cowboys switched linemens roles all the time. Patriots too.

Name me college qbs who looked liked stiffs as often as stafford and suddenly became great in the pros just because the teams the teams fanbase wished it so

Sanchez actually has more upside although mecca turned me off him by comparing him to bledsoe.

I just don't get why you guys get so unraveled by the idea it might not be a qb. Its football. Lighten up.
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The question was "Name all these 'many' teams that spend more than 1 top 15 pick on the OL and switch them around. To further that, name a successful team that does it."

How many of those Patriot and Cowboy lineman were top 15 picks?

Or just for the hell of it, forget top 15.
How about just first round picks?

For shits and giggles, I went and looked at the Cowboys draft history. The last time the Cowboys drafted OL in the 1st round PERIOD was 1980 and 81, with the 26th and 27th picks respectively.

The 91 and 92 Patriots selected a Tackle at 11th and 13th. However in 91 the Patriots had two 1st round picks. And the '92 pick wasn't even on the roster in 95. And the '91 pick wasn't on the roster in 96. Neither helped the Patriots reach the Super Bowl.

Look at this.
Look at how stupid you are.

This has been explained so many goddamned times on here its preposterous.

To many great football players in next years first round on defense for Pioli to make this trade.

I guess I offended Pioli Stuffer with my insults of facts and history.

Different teams approach the draft from different angles. The Steelers draft offensive linemen in the first round quite a bit, for example. I'm not exactly sure how these different approaches make anyone here brilliant or reeruned, but there is no uniform approach to the draft.

Steelers have taken 4 OL in the first round in the last 15 years. All with the exception of Otah(19) last year have been in the 28-30 range.

They can't exactly take them #1 when they aren't picking there. As I said, different teams take different approaches. The Patriots build from the defensive line first, so you see Wilfork, Seymour and Warren going in the first. The Cowboys trade their first round picks a lot but, when they keep the picks, they tend to focus on defense. With Manning to build around and the concept being "Get ahead and then pressure the opponent with speed", the Colts focus more on the offensive side of the ball and grab their defenders a bit later on.

It's really just a matter of team approach. The "top 15" part of the argument is a loaded question, because any team consistently drafting in the "top 15" is a team that you don't want to follow anyway, usually because they draft poorly along with everything else. Thus, the "top 15" argument really says "do teams that suck draft OL and then move them around?".

Or, to put it another way..... Irregardless of the actual player picked, when Millen was still running the show in Detroit, did you have more faith in Millen drafting in the top 10 or in NE, Pitt, Bal and Ind drafting at the bottom of the round?

Yes, let's move Albert. Let's move the one good thing we had last year on the offensive line into a position we don't know how well he'll play or adjust to.

While we are at it, let's move Tony Gonzalez to RT. He can block well and it's easier to get TEs - especially with how fast they ran yesterday.

I wish someone would go Chris Brown on Pioli Zombie already.

Ok, let's take a slightly different approach. For the sake of discussion, let's say that both Stafford and Sanchez are drafted before the Chiefs pick, and the Chiefs decided to keep the pick, either because they really wanted it or because they couldn't trade out. What would be your top 3 preferred players at that point?

IF it were to somehow play out like that, I'd take Jenkins, Everett Brown, or Raji.

Quick, what's 1 common theme between the teams you listed there, Dallas, NE Pitt and Baltimore?

Well, one common theme would be that they run the 3-4.

It's always disappointing to see otherwise good posters like kstater do some actual research and compile facts and statistics to back his argument.

This type of approach usually lends to ridiculous levels of argumentation.

There's absolutely no way you take Raji if you're the Chiefs. For a myriad of reasons, but most being that you already spent that pick last year on Dorsey. That's the nearly the same argument against drafting an OT in this position.

I read this morning as well that Haynesworth is not being offered what he wants, I guess something like $9M per, when his thoughts are more in the neighborhood of $12-13...sounds a lot like top 5 money...I know there are some questions, particularly Dorsey-related ones, but ESPECIALLY if we go to the 3-4, how do you not call him if you're considering Raji?

1) Aaron Curry
2) BJ Raji
3) Everette Brown

If his asking price is under 30 mill guaranteed, I call him.

However, I think due to Haynesworth character concerns, and injury history, that he's not nearly as motivated once he gets his money.

I'm not taking a RT 3rd overall. No how, no way. The Chiefs could draft Wood, sign a Jason Brown and keep Herb Taylor at RT and have a pretty good line.

1. Raji
2. Brown
3. Curry

With the possibility of needing to revise.

Because if the team does switch to the 3-4, you don't have a DT beside Tank, and the Dorsey selection might be effectively burned anyway.

Why? Youth, and if you're taking him #3, you better think he has all the talent in the world.

If they switch to a 3-4, Raji is the NT. DL switch out much more often than OL as well.

my thoughts exactly, our line might just go from major weakness to somewhat strength

It's a moot point anyway. The scenario of both QB's going 1,2 is setting at about 1% right now.

Perhaps, but I framed it that way just to get the "SANCHEZ!!!!!!!" people out of the equation. The same question would apply if the Chiefs decided that Sanchez wasn't worth taking at #3.

That was exactly why I brought up Haynesworth, no matter which front we decide on, we need help up front on defense too...we're taking a QB IMO, and that would mean no Raji....

:eek: But I was curious reading some of the responses, would you prefer BJ Raji over Albert Haynesworth?

For the record though, if I can't take the QB, I'm taking Raji b/c I think he's the BPA that's not OT.

Considering the money Haysesworth is going to demand, coupled with what I believe him playing good in his 2 contract years and I expect a decline in play, along with their differences in age, yes I would take Raji over Haynesworth.

I was thinking the same thing. But, then I wondered how many people of influence really read anything the press has to say.

I havn't read all the responses, so sorry if this has been beaten to death already.

Sanchez did not look very good today, maybe he should have NOT thrown either.

Did sanchez look as good as drew bledsoe at least? :)
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He did nothing to separate himself from the other QBs. He looked VERY average.

He doesn't pee his pants though!

Maybe he doesn't want to to Detroit.


Can John Gruden BE more of an idiot? Is it even possible?

He and Marriucci should have their ****ing heads examined.

Such stellar comments as, "That Georgia / Georgia Tech game; that's all you need to know".

I think I "need to know" a little more there, hack-job

But hey, if their collective ball wash sells Detroit; Keep Dumbassery Alive!!!:D

Maybe he doesnt. That was my first thought about Stafford too, he doesnt want to go to Detroit. I wouldnt blame them.

It was interesting that Faulk basically told Cincy not to draft him so he went #2 to Indy. I didnt remember that.

That's what I saw and hell, Pat White out threw him IMO. On all of Sanchez's long balls he could not hit anyone in stride or even overthrow them, they all had to slow up to catch the ball. Way too much air under the ball IMO.:shake:

Pat White was the best guy out there today. Sanchez even threw balls 3 yards out of bounds on several plays.

This !!! Haynesworth his first 5yrs was average and then these last 2yrs he decides to step it up for the $$. This guy has Chester McGlockton written all over him:shake:

Did he do the dirty Sanchez? ...

No, it wad done TO him.

ROFL

If I were a bettin man I'd say Sanchez slides out of the 1st and will be taken in the 2nd if not the 3rd if his Pro Day doesn't drastically improve because today he showed he is not worthy of the 3rd pick in ANY draft. :shake:

What a shocker
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Pity we don't all have access to the tapes. Until I see them( and by them I mean ALL candidates ), I'll assume you guys are just doing your usual TFS Shuffle.

grob:whackit:

Whatta you bet that if Max Unger is there with our 2nd pick we take him. I would do it. We take Aaron Curry with our 1st pick and Unger with our 2nd. Solid 'football guys' and that is what Pioli wants!!

If not the 3rd?!?

ROFL

There's not much to bet. Freeman, for ****'s sake, will go in round 1.

You need to have your head examined.

Hmm....let's make a call:

Do we draft based on Combine performance or Game Time performance?

Let's ask Pioli!

I think we ALL know the answer to that one, yes.

Somebody get your Real Player Download on, and let's have a look-see at this shit.

No shuffle here, seriously, Sanchez did not look good today and it what it does is further the notion he maybe should not have come out. I have no bias in this at all and was looking forward to watching him throw since we have the 3rd pick and all the pundits are predicting that we will take him. But he was average at best. Was it just a bad day? Maybe but what a day to have a bad day because IMO it will be the 2nd or 3rd if his Pro Day doesn't drastically improve.

If the guy has a great combine you don't draft him cause he's a workout warrior, if his combine is bad you don't draft him cause he sucks.

More insight can be yours for $109.99

He didn't look good.

Sorry man, your track record kind of speaks for itself; tapes please.

Are you really this ****ing stupid?

I believe you, but I still want to see just how badly.

It's strange that it was at least decent enough for McDouche to praise him. It couldn't have been a complete cluster****, right?

God Bless you and the service you provide sir.:doh!:

Hmmmmmmmmm.....ala Matt Leinert!!! I'm sure he has many good 'college' game time performances. Can't handle the NFL at this point. Palmer did though and it is all a crap shoot!!!

:doh!:

:shake:

Go watch on the tube for yourself! Track record? Don't remember ever having a conversation with you at all but whatever:shrug: You a Sanchez homer?

That was quite possibly the dumbest ****ing take I've heard yet. You may have in fact surpassed Pioli Zombie and set a new level for the bar.

I'm pretty sure we need demonpenz to draw a picture for him.

Just watch. If his Pro Day is not significantly any better he will go in the 2nd at the earliest.

I'm not even sure if Airwolf can save the day here, but I'd like to see the effort.

You saw it as well and he did not perform. What's your beef? You a Sanchez homer as well?

It wasn't a cluster**** in the least, he just didn't stand out from the crowd like you would expect from a top 10 QB. His arm didn't appear to be any stronger than middle of the pack guys and his accuracy on the long ball left a lot to be desired.

Please stop with this crap.

Josh ****ing Freeman will go in round 1. You realize this, no? If this enormous but otherwise worthless lump of shit goes round 1, Sanchez is a lock. Period.

Well, it certainly sounds like a disappointing day for Sanchez at the very least. Some of the reports have been more biting than this, though.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

This is my beef.

Look at this.
Look at how stupid you are.

I think that nj hit it right on the head.

Freeman has a Flacco arm(why he will go in the 1st) and Sanchez looked like he had a "backup" arm today. Like I said. It furthers the notion he should not have come out and if he does not significantly improve on his Pro Day then don't be surprised.:thumb:

Nothing much changes, except that people can finally stop putting these guys on such a high pedestal. Stafford is still the guy with outstanding fundamentals and arm strength who doesn't play nearly as well as you would expect given his ability and experience level. Sanchez is still the raw guy with outstanding leadership and personal qualities who won't start right away and might need a year or two on the bench to be developed. They both will grade high, but hopefully this puts to rest the idea that these guys are surefire top 5 picks. It appears even some scouts question that.

Very high likelihood the Chiefs take either of these guys. But hopefully this puts to rest the idea that taking a QB is absolutely, positively the only option.

All I can find are highlights and the asshat crew, but it doesn't sound NEARLY as dire as these guys are trying to perpetrate:


http://www.nfl.com/combine/videos/nf...000d5d80ee0db2

You all are just too desperate to make that Sanchez pick and I was hoping to see a "StudMofo" out there today and didn't see it. Today he was not the 3rd pick maybe at his Pro day he might be.

Yes, we should either draft a SAM Cover backer, a backup LT, or another defensive tackle.

8-8, you're our only hope :grovel:

No, we want ****ING INFORMATION. Jesus ****in' Christ with this guy...

The workout is one of many things they will be looking at to evaluate the kid. The workout doesn't help and it could push him out of the top 5, but he'll also likely grade very highly on leadership and social qualities, which are often viewed as being just as important if not moreso than the physical qualities. And I'm sure that they'll take a long look at tape to make sure it wasn't just a bad workout. I don't know what they'll find, to be honest.

But either way, I think this makes him a bubble top 5 pick with some possibility of maybe dropping out of the top 10 if he scores low on multiple areas. But I doubt his stock will fall too far.

**** me.

Milk, I was trying to positive rep. you and NJ about the combine info, and I think I hit the wrong key.

If there's a neg rep. in your box with a "thank you" message, well, I'm the ****ing idiot.

I'll get it right when I spread some around. Sorry.

Eh, I don't worry about rep.

I occassionally give some out just to use the function, but I never much cared about my own, so it's no biggie.

Cool.

It's been corrected. My bad.