Its gonna be hard to pass up a guy who makes all the throws that Cassel doesnt

Suh would be the no-brainer for me, I think he's a generational player, but QBs are overvalued, as well you know.

My only real beef with Clausen is that he's a ****ing domer. I hate domers.

Holy Christ.

I knew it was bad, but I didn't realize it was THAT bad.

62/154 for a 40% completion percentage.

20% of his passing yardage came from passes originating from behind the LOS.

70% of his passing yardage came from passes thrown 10 yards or less.

That's pretty damning evidence.

I wasn't really knocking anybody. I do think the number of starts thing is significant but like all things that trend could change I guess. That said you won't see me freak out if we draft a QB in the 1st round. I wouldn't have last year if we hadn't traded for Cassel. But we traded for Cassel so that horse was still born.

PhilFree:arrow:

a guy like?

Hell, that could be just about anyone.

He did have limited experience. He only played the position for 4 years total, as he was a WR until Sr. year b/c the QB at Findlay was the coach's son.

It was pretty obvious Cassel wasn't asked to do much to get his NE stats, NE lead the league in YAC yards by a significant margin.

The stats bear it out but it was obvious even when watching everything was designed on letting him throw simple passes.

No they ****ing don't.

Stafford has 10 games and Sanchez 14. When you look at the per game numbers Stafford is miles ahead of Sanchez. 226 passing yards per game compared to 170. And 1.3 passing TD's per game for Stafford (comes out to about 20 for 16 games) and 0.8 for Sanchez (about 13 over 16 games for Sanchez).

Stafford has more picks on a per game basis but Sanchez has 10 freaking fumbles so that evens out. Either way, Stafford has been far better and it's not really even close. Sanchez has just had a great defense bailing him out all year.

See, told you that was coming.

You're not being prophetic because what he said is not true. Their stats aren't similar when you look at the game per game basis.

FWIW, this year, he's 44/119 on passes over 10 yards, for a 37% completion percentage.

57% of his yardage comes from passes thrown 10 yards or less.

Unless I've missed a bunch of pro-Cassel talk somewhere in the last few pages, I think you're trying to convince a bunch of people that didn't really want Cassel in the first place that they shouldn't want him now.

We're all in the same boat, my friend: hoping that Cassel turns into something because he's probably going to be here for a while. Whether we like it or not. Which is why I haven't dogged the guy since the trade was made, and why I haven't dogged the guy all year. It's not because I liked it. It's because I didn't want to give myself an ulcer.

Let's put it this way: he may not be the best option, but right now he's the only option, for good or ill. I hope to christ below he exceeds all our expectations.

Whered you get those stats from? And how do they compare to a QB like Carson Palmer?

To be fair... longer passes require better protection. Just sayin'

That veteran team rallied to win games and Cassels stats were a byproduct of that.

He didnt have games that he simply threw the team on his back and lead them to victory, the team threw him on their back.

This is my only argument. I don't think Cassel has had the greatest pieces around him, but right now he's going to be the only option because he's Pioli's guy. So we're going to sink or swim with him. I only hope that somehow he finds a way to become more accurate on his deep throws and that his pocket awareness improves. Generally those aren't things a QB gets better at so we're pretty much SOL.

Either way, point is, we're still not drafting a QB with our first pick so talking about it in realistic fashion is stupid. We're not doing it. End of story.

He's lost 3 of those fumbles, you really want to go there?

I guess that means I can really rail Cassel for being even more of a turnover machine, since he has 13 fumbles in 14 games?

Whether you want to see the numbers as comparable or not, I could give a shit. Other than the passing yardage (which should be lower, considering the Jets running game and lack of offensive weapons) there isn't a significant difference.

Fine. Let's go with this.

Then, how do you explain the numbers BossChief produced?

Funny, his stats are almost identical from last year to this year.

Unless you want to try to claim that the Pats OL last year was terrible - you know, the same line that has allowed less than half the sacks this year.

He just isn't an accurate downfield passer, and some of us have been saying that since before he was traded here.

Cassel is averaging more yards per throw than Carson Palmer. How bout that.


Nm I was wrong.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/players/split...644&sYear=2008

espn split stats

follow the link and change the player page to find how others stack up.

I agree with this 100%

However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to talk about it, especially considering many think we SHOULD do it, even though they know we WON'T.

I'll take any degree of football talk over the alternative.

Between both games, he probably did.

Ah, you found your mistake...

Yea i'm not going to lie the most telling thing about all this is I need my eyes checked seriously.

When I first started up here I went DEEP in the red for slamming Cassel for the EXACT things he is still struggling with.

Understandable.

The people who swing the biggest rep sticks around here love Cassel.

I've never understood the fascination with the whole rep thing.

We're supposed to measure our intraweb peniseseses how?

Well, in real life I substitute centimeters for inches.

Beware my 9.

I just checked it and I just went over 300,000

Not bad for being in the hole about 50,000 at one point.

I dont know why I am so fascinated by rep, but I cant look away.

Im gonna miss redrums momma ones.

If Suh and Berry are off the board, we should seriously think about drafting Clausen and holding him hostage to one of the many teams that draft after us that are in dire need of a qb.

This is a draft that is pretty deep well into the late second round annd we need a lot of positions. A few high picks can really help us.

I'm going to guess on some stats in this thread:

1) 25-30% Don't want a QB.

2) 25-30% Don't want a QB in the first round.

3) 10% Don't want a QB in the first round. Ever.

4) Mecca claims the "fanbase" doesn't want a QB.

I'm now going to read through this thread. See you all in 45 minutes.

Yeah, that was suggested last year after we traded for Cassel, and people suggesting it were laughed at.

Now, I see some of those same folks making the same suggestion this year.

If we did that, I might genuinely piss myself.

LMAO

I think I was one of the people suggesting it, although I don't remember anybody laughing at me. But I've slept a lot since then.

I actually hated trading for Cassel, although I was relieved that the pick was only a second and not the first as I expected. Which was actually remarkably similar to my reaction to Trent Green's trade in 2001. Hopefully Cassel has a similar unexpected jump in production in his second year.

Are you laughing at me for suggesting it?

If the answer is yes, I have a question for you.

If Berry and Suh are off the board, who would you take at 3 that we couldnt still get at 8-9-10, or later yet?

...Or did I read that wrong and you were one of the people that were suggesting it last year?

You read it wrong, and the answer is probably Spiller.

Id bet a decent amount of real money that Spiller is still there at 8 or even later.

Id bet a decent amount of real money that Spiller is still there at 8 and most likely even later.

"NY/Detroit got the Caddy, and left Sweet Dick the mule to riiiiiiiiiide".

No, I was one of the people suggesting it last year.

Once we traded for Cassel, I was of the opinion that we should take Sanchez (or Stafford if he happened to be there) with the intention of holding him hostage for the highest bidder.

Worst case scenario, you have a guy who sits for a year and is ready to hit the field should Cassel shit the bed.

Imagine my surprise when it actually happened...

All the more reason to try and trade down. This would never happen but itd be dope if we got Berry and were able to trade into this first round and get Spiller.

Ehh...I don't know about that.

IMO, this draft is deep, but weak on elite talent outside of the top 3 or so.

What do you base this on? Did you watch Miami or Oakland games in particular? Look, I don't deny Cassel has taken a step backward this year into suckville, and yes, a lot of it has to do with the shit around him and changing OC's at the last minute. But to deny he did anything in 2008 is idiocy and ignoring what happened on the field.
Posted via Mobile Device

Like the sun rising in the east and the swallows return to Capistrano.

It never fails.

Look at that poll on the Chiefs site or listen to sports radio, people who come here do not represent the majority of the fan base.

I don't think the overwhelming majority that post on here always want OL and hate QB's but there are some of them.

Why give two shits about people who aren't here? Did some random chiefs fans poison your ferret or something? Piss on your volkswagon beetle?

We had a poll about Stafford, Sanchez, and Cassel, last year.

But I'm trying to remember, was there a poll that reflected the desire to take one of the two QB if BOTH were available? Something to either refute or support the notion that *most* Chiefs fans are scared of drafting a QB high?

No but I'm just saying when a organization is in a mode where they really need to sell tickets majority fan opinion may matter to some extent.

Personally I have no idea what this team is going to draft just because well it's Pioli and the Chiefs are in a situation where they are losing fan interest.

I don't think knowledgable fans are scared, I do think fans that long to have the Marty or Vermiel days back are though, just being in it till week 17 was enough for them.

It's the salmon of Capistrano. PSSSHHH duh

Those are not necessarily mutually-exclusive concepts.

LMAO

Oh, you mean this thread?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...assel+stafford

You know, the one where prior to the trade, Cassel finished 3rd in a 3 horse race?

Then after, everyone decided he was the best option?

Well I don't know how you could be a very knowledgeable fan and desire to build back into something that couldn't win games that mattered.

Then about 80% of the people flopped because Cassel put the arrowhead on his helmet, no other reason.

All of the things that were questioned about Cassel 8 months ago have proven to be true over the course of this season.

I can't answer that, since I have no love for martyocre, but the fact remains there are a lot of really smart people who love him.

It's that pesky opinion thing again.

Absolutely.

And I'm going to start a Cody ball washing thread after the Denver game tomorrow so that we all don't have to be turncoats.

LMAO

I wonder how many are actually scared that Terrence Cody might be a very real option for this front office.

I don't think Cody's an option at all, not after a summer full of making guys bust ass to lose weight.

I don't think that's as much a part of Haley's (or Pioli's) philosophy so much as it's a realization that the team has no ****ing talent.

I said at the time, crowing about weight loss is NOT a good sign.

I didn't believe Tyson Jackson was a real option last year at this time either...

And hey Deez who are you to judge man? Maybe Todd Haley's real calling in life is as one of the trainers on the biggest loser.

Hey, we're having an extended discussion about the pro-cons of draft picks, in a couple of threads, actually. ****, keg and I aren't in complete agreement, yet we're still talking.

Where are all the True Fans?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Not with the talent part, but I do think they're going to continue to be more concerned with conditioning than Herm was. I think that's part of the (coachspeak warning) culture they're trying to change.

[QUOTE=Mecca;6399224]I didn't believe Tyson Jackson was a real option last year at this time either...

And hey Deez who are you to judge man? Maybe Todd Haley's real calling in life is as one of the trainers on the biggest loser.[/QUOTE]

I think this sounds like a fantastic idea.

anybody that thinks we should not take a QB as early as possible is full of shit

And this could be correct. I admit that my comments aren't based on a large enough sample size.

However, by the time Haley bragged about losing the 352nd pound, I'd had about a ****ing enough of the bullshit empty rhetoric that had permeated 1 Arrowhead Drive.

I did, a week or two before the draft when Gosslin first mentioned him rated that high. In fact at that point I was positive he was the pick.

And I still think there's a possibility that he may end up a pleasant surprise.

I think in theory it's great but having guys who play on the lines drop a ton of weight is not a good idea, there's a reason general NFL linemen play at a certain size.

But I'm still not sure that it's even conditioned them better, this team has been horrible in the 2nd half of the year, getting completely trounced numerous times.

What's made you hopeful about this? No bullshit. Not setting you up for an attack.

I don't imagine it's something we have to worry about seeing again.

I think it was in some ways oversold, too. I think a lot of that weight loss was the result of lazy ****ers who came into camp overweight. Because that was the way it had been here up until now. I think that's primarily what the focus was, making sure you're ready to hit the ground running in August, instead of hitting doughnut buffets all July.

A week or 2 before the draft and Janaury 2nd aren't the same day...what if 2 weeks before this years draft Gosslin has us with Cody?

And yes I'd love to hear what makes you think Jackson will be a pleasant surprise, I'm not trying to be an ass but I wouldn't expect pleasant surprise from top 3 pick..I expect cornerstone player that is expected to be good period.

Mostly things I heard about him the week after the draft, more athleticism and motor than I realized he had. He may end up being a hidden gem. Or not.

Either way, 2010 well tell a lot more than 2009 did.

My reaction would be the same as it was with Jackson. What the ****...

I think that Tyson was put in a bad spot from a draft perspective. I think he will eventually pan out and be a very good player, but it's going to be next to impossible for him to live up to being the #3 overall player unless he becomes the next Richard Seymour (what RS was in his prime).

I don't blame Jackson for that, and I don't really blame the front office (I know some will have a shit fit about that but I don't). We tried to trade down and couldn't find any takers. The only guy that in hindsight would have been worth it was Orakpo. And I think what hurt him was ****ing Vernon Gholston because everyone kept comparing the two and Gholston is on his way to being a colossol bust. So I think the thinking was to put another big body to build around up front, which is what they did in New England (look I'm not chanting the Patriots way either, so spare me the sarcasm).

Some blame has to go to the FO, however, because the contract talk surrounding Cassel is what ****ed the trade-down possibilities.

I said this before we even picked last year, but I think the real problem was that we had our highest pick in years in what may have been the worst draft in years in which to have a high draft pick. It was just pathetic at the top, and the reality is that we were all debating for months about guys who went in the top-5 who'd have gone in the teens or twenties any other year.

Which doesn't mean the front office doesn't deserve shit if he's not a pro-bowl calibre guy by year 3. Their job is to make the best of the pick they have.