Fair enough. I just don't think he's NEARLY as limited as Cassel, either physically or mentally.

He's just as limited physically, and that is why the best stretch of his career is less than 190 yards a game passing.

The difference between Cassel in 2010 and Smith in 2013 is that Andy Reid runs a pass-first offense. Much more of the success of the offense will be dependent on Alex Smith.

The question is whether Alex Smith can maintain his high YPA, low interception rate, and high QB rating when the defense is playing the pass instead of plaything the run. If Smith throws 600 times next season, and has a QB rating over 90, Andy Reid will look like a genius. If he has a QB rating of 70, it'll be the disaster that Clay is predicting.

nope. You absolutely shouldnt. Dont also forget that the Colts, did a scheme change on defense, the only real veteran they had on offense was reggie wayne, everyone else was young......

I agree, the expectations should be playoffs, i believe that dorsey reid, and alex smith would tell you that is their expectations as well.

Which of those could you reasonably expect to get for that kind of compensation?

Dalton probably.

Mayyyyyybe Roethlisberger or Rivers.

I wouldn't have any greater expectation for Dalton than I do for Alex Smith. I might have a slightly greater expectation for Rothlisberger and I'd probably have lower expectations for Rivers.

Playoff birth would be a good goal in any of their cases, IMO. I don't think I'd consider it an utter failure if they just missed the first year though. I'd give them a second year to see how the system/players/QB gel.

P.S. Your subsequent posts talking about 9 wins seems much more reasonable to me than the post about "complete and total failure" that I responded to.

I'd probably have less expectations for Dalton than I do for Smith.

I don't get the hype surrounding him.

Fair enough

we agree on that. Hes christian ponder to me....

You can argue whether or not 2001 was was a rebuilding year or not, but that year does not equate with this year in any way, shape or form. Trent Green's only receiver was Tony Gonzalez (Derrick Alexander was trash, Eddie Kennison didn't arrive until the latter half of the season, Snoop Minnis, Larry Parker and Chris Thomas were the other guys), and as far as we knew that offseason we were going to be a RBbC (nobody expected Priest Holmes to be what he was). Tony Richardson had done okay at running back, but we had no idea that he'd be an established fullback. They did not have a good offensive line either, Tait was nothing special at left tackle (in fact I remember thinking he was a weak link, and lo and behold he was shifted to the right the next year when Roaf arrived), Victor Riley was a turnstile at right tackle, obviously Will Shields was great at right guard but he was basically it. We had no idea what Brian Waters was going to be, he was an undrafted player we got from the Cowboys a year or two earlier as I recall, who had to play center the first game of the season because Wiegmann was out. And we didn't think much of Weigmann at the time, either, as I recall. He was an undersized center who'd lost his job to Olin Kreutz.

So there was basically nothing on offense heading into the 2001 season, in other words, outside of Tony Gonzalez and Will Shields. Absolutely zero. Some of us expected exactly what we got from Trent Green because, until Kennison was picked up, he had no receivers at all, no established running back to start the season, and at best an okay offensive line.

Alex Smith has Dwayne Bowe and Donnie Avery starting, which is far better than any tandem of receivers than Green ever had to work with, and he has Dexter McCluster in the slot (whom Reid loves). And there are a variety of receivers to choose from behind them, whether it's speed in Devon Wylie or size in Jon Baldwin. He has Moeaki and Fasano at tight end, who, while they aren't Tony Gonzalez, also aren't a weakness. He has Jamaal Charles at runningback, who's more of a big play threat than any single player Green ever had, and one of the best players in the entire league. And I think it's fair to say that Draughn and Gray are better rotational backs than Mike Cloud and Jermaine Williams. Albert, if they keep him, is a better player than Tait at the time, and if they don't, he'll be replaced with a top-10 pick. The rest of the line is what should be ascending players mostly taken in the first half of the draft over the last few years. Which is at least equivalent to Green's 2001 line, and quite possibly better.

So let's not make this out to be something that it isn't. Alex Smith is being handed the keys to a Ferrari. Well, okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. The keys to a Mustang with a lot of extras. Trent Green was asked to drive a Yugo.

I think what we could reasonably expect would be Trent Green. But Alex Smith has more upside than Green ever had, so we could get something better.

Moron.

Hi fan club! I've missed you! Kissies!

I think you're understating what Trent Green actually had his first year (when you describe it as a Yugo), but I'll agree that the 2013 lineup is probably better. Nontheless, I continue to maintain that 2001 was more like 2013 than like 2009.

Not just offensively, but defensively, there is an ass ton more talent here in 2013 than there was in 01.

Baldwin is a waste of a roster spot at this point IMO. McCluster.. well... he might be a good punt return option.

Wylie won't make it out of camp, so in essence the '13 Chiefs are only a few steps above the '01 Chiefs. They're head and shoulders better at RB, a wash or worse at FB, better at WR1, wash at WR2, "technically" worse at TE, wash at OL, and it's yet to be determined if QB1 is better in '13 than '01.

That's the point.

Are you saying that it's ok to trade a first round pick for a guy that is easily recognizable as bottom half of the league and to give him 20 million over 2 years?

Of course you can't get a REAL quarterback for what we spent...they are worth more than that and it was a trade that EVERYONE sags we gave up too much.

Last offseason, nobody wanted to give Alex Smith a real contract for a reason.

oh ya. it had nothing to do with the fact Cassel had Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Bowe during those years.

Of course, surrounding talent contributed, as it did with Charles and Bowe.
But we saw what he is with poor coaching and playcalling, even Charles and Bowe last year.

I pointed out in another thread that our strength of schedule is actually harder next year than Denver's by virtue of the fact they were 13-3 and we were 2-14.....

It was a second round pick.

Second round picks are selections where a team's front office proves their worth in finding players who can find their way into the starting lineup by their second or third seasons and stay in such a position for two or three seasons after that.

If Alex Smith's tenure in KC is that of a carbon copy of Matt Cassel's where he's released by year four, is the trade worth it?

So? It was a second round pick. It was not a first round pick as was stated. This is a fact. I'm not sure what you are even talking about, or how it relates to my post.

A second round pick and a third round pick equate to a mid to late first.

The 34th pick is worth 580 draft value points. The 16th pick in the second round is worth 420 points....that equates to 1000 points, which is what the 16th pick in the first round is worth. If we only give up a third next year That's worth 190 points, added to the 580 we give up this year, that's 770 points given up...the equivalent of the 21st pick in the first round.

So, yes, we did give up a first round pick worth of draft compensation for Alex Smith.

Paul Kruger
Kenechi Osemele
Ray Rice
Terrance Cody
Courtney Upshaw

Those are five players the Ravens took in the 2nd round in the 2008-12 drafts.

Here's the question...what kind of player could we have gotten by packaging our 34rd overall with the next years third and moved up to 21-26?

Would that player give us more, long term, than Alex Smith will?

We could draft Geno and use the picks we used on Alex Smith to move up into the 20s to take Warmack or Cooper if we are hellbent on spending more premium resources on the OL.

Albert
Warmack
Hudson
Asamoah
Allen/Stephenson

That's a damn good line.

What do all these coaches have in common?
- Urban Meyer
- Norv Turner
- Mike Martz
- Jim Harbaugh

Yes, they are all considered brilliant offensive minds. They have also all coached Alex Smith. So using the excuse that Andy Reid will bring out the best in this pile of shit is stupid. This guy has had a laundry list of not good, but great offensive/QB coaches.

The best of all those (Jim Harbaugh) didn't think Alex was good enough to play for his team anymore. A lot of you Alex Smith ball washers are somehow forgetting this. I don't want to hear the BS about Kaperdick.

Harbaugh knew in 2011 that he didn't want Smith, that's why he traded up with the Donkeys. The niners gave up 2 picks and swapped their 2nd rounder for Kap! Harbaugh wanted Smith out YEAR 1!

Why? Because he knew he wasn't good enough. That's ****ing why.

You wanna bitch about us using the word mediocrity? Guess what, Alex God Damn Smith IS the ****ing definition of mediocrity.

If you think any different you are either 1) high 2) delusional 3) ignorant 4) homosexual

If Alex were a free agent I would have ZERO issue with him being here, but since we have given up not one, but two high round draft picks I'm absolutely sick over it. Do you have any idea how much ****ing talent comes out of the 2nd round? Do you?

NOT WORTH IT!

They're so invaluable. ****, just take a look at these 2nd round players since 2009. Absolutely a disgusting excuse for talent, IMO. Clearly, 2nd round picks are just a waste.

Louis Delmas
Patrick Chung
James Laurinatis
Eben Britton
Jairus Byrd
Connor Barwin
Max Unger
Andy levitre
Leshaun McCoy
Phil Loadholt
William Moore
Paul Kruger
Sal Vollmer
Will Beatty
Sean Smith
Roger Saffold
Brian Brice
TJ Ward
Gronk
Daryl Washington
Jason Worlids
Carlos Dunlap
Sean Lee
Terrence Cody
Golden Tate
Ben Tate
Brandon Spikes
Pat Angerer
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick
Jabaal Sheard
Akeem Ayers
Bruce Carter
Brooks Reed
Kyle Rudolph
Stefen Wisinieski
Rodney Hudson
Mikel Leshoure
Torrey Smith
Greg Little
Randall Cobb
Coby Fleener
Courtney Upshaw
Derek Wolfe
Mitchell Schwartz
Janoris Jenkins
Cordy Glenn
Alshon Jeffery
Mychal Kendricks
Bobby Wagner
Kendall Reyes
Devon Still
Ryan Broyles
Peter Konz
Mike Adams
Lavonte David
Kelechi Osemele
Lamichael James
Casey Heyward

He claimed it was a first round pick when it was a second. I have no idea what this has to do with that.

If you look at the chart that rates picks off a points system, you combine this years second with next years 2nd or 3rd and you have essentially given up a first round talent. One of the 2 players we would have drafted in those rounds would end up a franchise player or game changer. Guaranteed.

So drop your stupid ****ing argument that its a 2nd round pick. We know what it IS. IT IS ESSENTIALLY A FIRST ROUND PICK. shut the **** up about it you clowndick mother ****er.

1. Nothing in the draft is guaranteed.

2. It was a second this year and an undetermined pick next year. It was not a first.

3. You are a dick.

There's no use trying to explain it to him.

It's too complicated for him to comprehend a 1st round talent because they were drafted in round 2 and that 2 confuses him when you are talking about 1st talent.

Here is the chart I'm talking about that gives a numerical value to draft picks. Grab a calculator.
http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Have you looked at our second round picks the last 10 years? Which one was a first round talent?

You can't make a second round pick into a first round by talking about an unknown player that hasn't even been drafted yet. You are making that pick a first round talent when it could just as easily be a bust. The fact that you think you need to exaggerate to make your point says more about you than anything.

Well that settles it.

The Chiefs haven't been good with 2nd round picks the last few years. Therefore, all of those 1-2 projected players that fall to the 2nd are all terrible players.

The fact that you continue to go on with you asinine argument says it all. I want @drake to murder your vagina

If I had the time/patience I would absolutely obliterate this person off the face of the earth with proven facts of draft picks. Unfortunately I'd rather cut my sack off with an AIDS infected butter knife. Good night

My argument is truth. You can't say that the 34th pick this year is a first round talent - you don't even know who it will be or who the Chiefs would have taken with it. It is absurd.

I really dont understand why the draft lasts more than 1 round.

They should just change it to 1 round and then the rest of the bums that dont get drafted should become UFA's. No point in wasting everyone's time and dragging this shit out for 7 rounds.

There isn't enough time for you to obliterate anyone with facts, since you are basing your whole argument on supposition. You are a dumbass that couldn't debate if your life depended on it.

Based on the short list I provided, there are certainly players with "first round talent" available.

You have managed to derail several pages on this thread with your nonsense. I have no idea who you are, you're probably a good person. So I'm not going to continue with this argument.

Bottom line is, the trade for Alex Smith was horseshit. It's a proven ****ing fact that talented dudes come out of the second round. It also happens to be the round that Reid and Dorsey have had A TON of success with in their time w/ other teams.

splatbass should be sentenced to swim laps in an infinity pool filled with Alex Smith's scrotemeal.

Certainly there are. There are also some that will be a bust. We don't know which would have been picked with 34 if we had kept the pick, so it is foolish to make claims about it.

And that's exactly why they are 2nd round picks, right?

Only the 1st round is where you get players who are guaranteed to work out.

Ryan Sims thinks you're onto something here...

As well as...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sourc...64279840458192
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&w=350&h=254
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sourc...64279868352177

This could go on for a while if we wanted...

I think that since 2009, your chances of finding at the very least a productive player in the 2nd round are much greater than finding a complete bust.

Koolaid is thicker than blood pudding.

A) Alex Smith played well enough under Urban Meyer to get drafted 1.1.

B) Mike Martz doesn't coach to the player, he puts players into his system whether they fit or not.

Wins, playoff wins that's all I care about.

This. :(

Kansas City: Land of the Misfit QBs

A) He was a on the forefront of the spread QB craze. In hindsight, his selection at 1.1 was a wild reach.

B) Well.. then that's a reflection of Martz's poor coaching philosophy and Alex's limitations as a player.

Read it again, mouthbreather.

Neither of those things changes the fact that those two coaches aren't examples that support Mr. Pink's thesis that Alex Smith has had all the opportunities in the world to thrive under great coaching and has failed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Nt4JXKUv5MQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You mean, like Alex Smith picked #1 overall. Yeah, that really worked out. Cue Jamarcus Russell.

:facepalm:

You couldn't spot sarcasm if it hit you in the face. Not an intelligent 49ers fan among ya.

Looks like 49er fans numbers have surpassed Charger fans numbers here. Hell the Jags are giving them a run...

you are so far on kaeps dick, that you cant even realize the truth. Alex Smith, after 8 years in the league just fetched the 49ers a second round pick and a second pick that could become a second round pick.

You are such a ****ing tool.........

First thing we actually agree on. He has a blow up doll of kaepernick in his house that he spends 14 hours a day sucking off. He cant possibly see anyone other than kaep. Dont lump us all in with that wind bag.....

the problem you have just created for yourself, is that it is EASY to track the two picks that you gave up, and if they arent megastars as you are predicting,, you will look like a bigger dick than you already do. The fact is that no draft pick is a guaranteed thing, until they ARE a guaranteed thing.

Alex Smith, while not a super star, is PROVEN, the two draft picks you gave up, could easily become busts........

i could of missed one, but, couldnt help but notice, of that list you provided, not ONE single chief........

Gold Men Are Coming: To douche up Chiefs Planet

Rodney Hudson

Brandon Flowers

I would say head and shoulders better at RB 1-3, head and shoulders better at both WR1 and WR2, wash or worse at OL. TE is the only position where they're clearly less.

There's not really any point in comparing the QBs because the whole idea behind my post was to discuss the tools that Alex Smith has as opposed to the ones that Trent Green had. People have suggested that he should get a throwaway year because the situation is perceived to be somehow similar 2001, when in reality it's not even remotely close to 2001.

We can go on to talk about the defensive lineup if you want. That's even more lopsided than the offensive discussion.

The idea that a 2nd round pick has no value because we always draft poorly in the second round is an utterly defeatist way of looking at things. How can one be so optimistic about the team's chances on one hand, then turn around and express that kind of Eeyore philosophy?

Unless he totally sucks ass, the team has no excuse not to win 10 games.

I for one agree with your post, but I also dont think that your second round pick this year was wasted. Just like I dont think that Cleveland wasted their second rounder this year, by picking up josh gordon last year. The point is that I think a majority of the time, a proven player is worth more than a pick a majority of the times. Some times it can blow up in your face, like it has with the Raiders with palmer, but for the VALUE of the pick, what the raiders gave up to get Richard Seymour, was fair value......

It will take two or three years to see if the chiefs over paid, or underpaid for alex smith. If he gives you two years of winning football, and leaves the chief with a qbotf, then it was absolutely worth and prolly you got off winning in the trade.

If you have a 5-11 season this year, you grossly overpaid because a rookie could of had the same if not better results. Far too soon for people to be this pissed about this trade.

completely agree. There arent a ton of glaring holes on this team right now.

ON PAPER THAT IS.

I expect him to suck. Not as bad as cAssHole, but not as good as Trent Green. Perhaps a bit better the Elvis Grbac but not as good as Rich Gannon. Not as tough as DeBerg but not a brittle as Blackledge.

brandon flowers. idiot. I should point out that the second rounder we give up this year is HIGHER in the second rounder than the pick that flowers was picked with.

nobody was mocking him in the first round is what he'll likely say... to which I present this link

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nflmockdraft.html

yes. he absolutely WAS a first round talent that fell to the second round.

Flowers was very similar to Brees in that an inch or two of height and he's gone much ealier.