pretty much it's who can Alex Smith out duel in a QB battle. If a good QB gets in front of him score wise, he's not catching up or bringing this team from behind.

So guys like Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck and maybe Mike Vick can absolutely air it out and beat him in a race. He has no chance against those guys

I Don't see you losing to the eagles. Other than history I don't understand why anyone or what anyone sees in the raiders. The chargers have gotten progressively worse, and with a new head coach, no one knows how they are going to do. And by new, as in first time, not new, as in Andyr reid. I find if funny, that one of the games you have bolded is the Cleveland game.

well the Browns are ****ing terrible. So yes they should be bolded

I really expect us to be drafting in the top 8-13 again.

Pats,49ers,SH,Ravens, Steelers, Bengals, Saints, Falcons, Giants, Texans, Colts, Broncos, Bears, Packers, Lions will all likely have a better record than us. Add in mid level teams like Miami, Carolina, Vikings, Rams, Bucs, Cowboys, and you end up with something like this. Now, KC could end up as high as 15-19 but I'm not counting on it.

I agree. However, given that they are divisional games and our recent history, I'm thinking we split.

I think the Cleveland game is going to be close. However, it's hard for me to think Weeden pulls of a win at this point.

Really? In 2011, he went toe to toe with Tony Romo, beat Eli Manning, and beat Mike Vick. So he has absolutely proven that he can win shoot outs. Im not sure where these absolutes come from. The truth is, no one knows how mike vick is going to be in that system, or if he can stay healthy. Not many people can win shoot outs with Peyton Manning, so I really don't find it that discouraging if a team that went 13-3 last year, and added Wes Welker, were able to beat the Chiefs. But Schaub? When was the last time this game won a close game? Eli, depends on which giants team is playing that week. One week, they can beat anyone, the next, they cant beat anyone. So who knows.

the only chance we have is leap frogging Denver for the division and thats not gonna happen until Peyton retires or gets hurt.

We arent taking a wildcard spot from any of the teams with proven consistency; Colts, Texans, Steelers, Bengals, Ravens and then you have a stacked team like the Dolphins that hinges on breaking out thanks to their 2nd year first round pick QB where their progression is.

So really who are we jumping out of those teams?

I understand the skepticism on Weeden. My hope much like with Alex Smith here, is that Norv Turner will help him. Also being in a down field passing system, should help him as well. Provided Josh Gordon can stop trying to channel his inner Jamarcus Russell.

he also had the best defense in the NFL in 2011

the Chiefs dont have close to a top 10 defense

You mean the ravens team that lost almost all of its key defense? And Anquan Boldin? Or the steelers team that didn't even make the playoffs last year, and now on top of that, lost Mike Wallace? Those teams you don't think you can jump ahead of? Even though you play in the easiest division in football, and the ravens and steelers play in the toughest?

I agree, this team isn't getting a WC.

No one knew the 49ers were that good going into 2011, no more than you know how good this defense is going to be under Sutton. So that, doesn't fly. The fact is, on paper, the defenses from the 49ers prior to 2011, and the chiefs defense this year going in, are comparable. Can we at least come to an agreement on that?

It'll be interesting.

I hope I eat crow and Smith excells. On the other hand, I hope he doesn't to overachieve against a weaker schedule, only to get extended and mire in mediocrity against a tougher schedule in the following years.

That's an interesting philo. I can understand it.

yes you did, you had the defense. even in your 6-10 2010 year you had a top 15 defense. you were one of the best teams at stopping the run even with a crappy offense, crappy coaching and crappy QB, you had the defensive talent.

This Chiefs team showed no signs of anything last season except that Jamaal Charles can lead a good rush attack. The defense was bottom tier in the high twenties and the pass defense gave up scores at will.

They actually ARE NOT comparable statistically so get your facts straight.

Okay. Put those two in, and you have 12 teams listed. That's about an 8.5% chance for each one of those to win it all things being equal, and a 91.5 %chance the won't. Plus, their are 20 other teams. Some being pretty good... including us IMO.

So any given QB, the chances are much greater they won't win a Super Bowl anytime soon... Smith included. But someone is going to win won this year.

See, I tend to agree more with Sac. (has he been around lately?) If the offense does control the ball and move the chains... something that didn't happen often enough with Cassel... then our defense could/should be much improved.

I think we are on the right track and are going to surprise this season. JMO.

Tough to evaluate last season's D.

That shitty Offense committed a shitton of turnovers.

Exactly!

The eye test showed the D really wasn't that bad, but it is tough to overcome shitty field position with the 3 and outs, and constant turnovers.

the defense was that bad, every safety and CB on half the field got picked on all game and the DL had no pass rush

if that changes is yet to be seen but it's not like theres been any significant upgrades to CB2, CB3, FS or the DL pass rush that show otherwise.

I amazed how little credit you fools give to coaching.

We had the worst coach in the NFL last year by a mile. Maybe 10 miles.

We just picked up a top 10 coach.

Basically every person in the NFL media thinks the Chiefs are talented.

We sent 6 people to Hawaii granted a few were questionable but still, somebody thought we had that level of talent.

Lets be a doom and gloom, that's way better.

Bullshit

See, I enjoy this. Now, I am going to keep this polite. I am going to say that you are wrong. Way wrong infact. First, we didn't have Donte Whitner in 2010, and because of that, Dashon Goldson, was absolutely terrible in 2010. We had Takeo Spikes, who was good, but going into 2011, no one KNEW anything about Navarro Bowman. We had cut Clements, and picked up washingtons trash in Carlos Rogers, who in his previous 6 years, had as many picks 6, as he earned in his first season in San Francisco. Do you remember 2010 at all? You talk about our top 15 defense, how did that look when we came to Kansas City and had our doors completely blown off?

There was nothing similar to the 2010 and 2011 teams. Nothing. The difference was the coaching. And that will apply here. The majority of successful teams in the NFL, excel, at putting their personnel in a position to succeed. And it will start with the pass rush for the Chiefs. It will help out players like Eric Berry who when healthy, is a top 10 safety in the league, it will help out Brandon Flowers, who is a top 10 corner in the league. Both positions, that the 49ers have no player of that caliber. The chiefs are poised defensively, to be a top 10 defense this year, the only difference between the 49ers, of 2011, and the Chiefs of 2013, are the fact that your pieces are KNOWN. The 49ers had an unproven Aldon Smith, who was a situational pass rusher, Justin Smith, and Patrick Willis, and a bunch of unknowns.........

Love,

2009

Who says we don't give credit to coaching. I'm sure Reid can coach Alex Smith to the point where Smith can ride the talent on the rest of the team to 8 or 9 wins. Just as I'm also sure Reid could have coached virtually any other QB to that point.

Reid is NOT a Top 10 coach. This isn't 2004.

Let us have our optimistic off-season. We're Chiefs fans. It's all we have.

Stats mean jack, and passer rating is the most useless stat of all.

Everyone is just one mistake away from dumbass.

Bullshit. I heard this argument before. Any qb could of done what alex smith did the past two years under harbaugh. that's a cop out. That is a convenient excuse for people who cling to every single reason to not give alex smith the credit he rightfully EARNED. Not deserves. He EARNED IT.
Correct. The only stats that matter, are wins, and in the past two years, the only qbs with a higher winning percentage than alex smith, were aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. The concept, is team, the chiefs have built an entire team, and Alex is just a part of it. Yes, ideally, you would want a franchise qb, that can carry you if you need it. But, if you cant have that, the least you can have is a solid team, which the Chiefs have built.

oh cool we built a solid team with no franchise QB, in the off chance the once every 20 years Trent Dilfer Scenario happens again, we should be first in line to catch that lightning in a bottle and have our team carry our game manager QB passed all the franchise QBs in the playoffs.

Joy

And again. Joe Flacco, 28 tds, and 3800 yards. Those are franchise qb numbers? What won in the end for The ravens last year? Hmmmm? Their defense and special teams won that game for them.

The blueprint for the Chiefs, is very similar to the ravens.

When was the last time that Tom Brady won a super bowl? And in the year that the packers won the super bowl, in case you have forgotten, it was their DEFENSE that carried them to the title. Not THEIR OFFENSE. To win it all, which should be the goal, you have to have a COMPLETE TEAM. Alex Smith, is NOT trent dilfer bad, not even close.

Alex Smith is a game manager who needs a strong running game and a top defense to eek out close wins. Which is fine, except for the whole "traded two seconds" part. I'm sure he'll do fine in his role. I'm also sure a half a dozen other veterans would have done fine in that role, at no cost and without crippling the team in top half of the draft for two years.

Love the way people keep devaluing Joe Flacco and his 1100 yard, 11 TD/0 INT playoff performance last year. He throws for 285 yards and 3 TD a game, the Ravens score 24, 38, 28 and 34 points, but their title's not about anything he did. Nah, that wasn't an all-time playoff run for a QB. It was all defense carrying him!

LMAO

weren't Joe Flacco's playoff numbers last year godly/elite? Where he got on a hot streak in the WC, Division and Championship rounds and absolutely CARRIED his team with his arm? Weren't his passing numbers something crazy, he had a like 8 touchdowns and no picks.

He carried that team to the Super Bowl. Everyone knows this.

Wait till Hootie sees this. LOL

If not for a dropped pass vs NE the yr before, he'd have 2 Lombardi's.

This topic has already been debated in an entire thread devoted to the subject and it was determined by a vast majority opinion on CP that yes indeed Reid is a top 10 coach.

Feel free to have your own opinion though.

Name 10 coaches better than him. Go.

I think its way early to determine where he is today. He certainly has the potential to be top 10 and has been in the past. We will see.

One could potentially argue this

Harbaugh
Harbaugh
Payton
Belichick
Coughlin
McCarthy
Tomlin
Shanarat
Carroll
Fisher

Now, I'm not sure that I'd put Fisher above Reid. Additionally, I'd rather group them into tiers rather than a 1-10 list.

I wouldn't put Fisher or McCarthy ahead of Reid.

Any coach can look good with Aaron Rodgers at QB. The Crennel led Chiefs would have had 9-12 wins last year with Aaron Rodgers at QB.

That's fair. I was trying to play devil's advocate.

There is no comparison there. Dilfer was Dan Marino immobile without the rocket arm.

Mike McCarthy is absolutely 100x better than Andy Reid

you are talking about a guy that was a QB coach and got the best out of turds like Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, etc then went to the Saints to run the offense with Aaron Brooks, Joe Horn, Duece McAlister/Ricky Williams

His only bad year was when he had to be the offensive coordinator for shitty Alex Smith's rookie season.

Andy Reid has only ever had ONE QB do all of his success for him besides 1 good Vick year. Mike McCarthy has had success with multiple (shitty) QBs.

Reid brought in Jeff Garcia and went on a run to get to the playoffs. Oh and he even won a playoff game with Garcia as well.

I'd say that counts.

Reid made AJ Feeley look good and had Vick, McNabb and Garcia play arguably the best football of their careers.

You obviously have zero knowledge of Andy Reid's past.

I could have stopped after the 5th word.

Jeff Garcia was a pretty damn good QB in San Francisco.

Reid runs a QB friendly system, and he's good at putting his QBs in position to succeed.

I believe he could have done the same for Cassel.

But unlike a Sean Payton or a Mike McCarthy, he's not developing these guys into outstanding QBs.

He just does a good job of masking the deficiencies, much like Charlie Weis.

On another note, to the idiot that suggested that the Packer defense fueled that Packer SB run.

You are ****ing dumbass.

Who besides Rodgers and Breese have these guys "developed" into outstanding QB's?

There was a mic'd up segment with Andy Reid coaching McNabb and I really liked what I saw. I don't think he just masked McNabb's deficiencies. He did a pretty tremendous job of turning an inaccurate running QB into a really good pocket passer. And arguably, you can credit Reid for a lot of Hasselbeck's development.

Reid's a very good and experienced QBs coach, and think it helps that we have a dedicated QBs coach and an offensive coordinator who's QB-minded. Think the bigger problem is his history of evaluating QBs has been really shaky.

I hope you're not being serious. McCarthy's a hell of a coach, but pumping up his Kansas City resume with Gannon/Bono/Grbac and a pretty mediocre Saints resume with Aaron Brooks. And then downplaying that Reid coached Favre/Hasselbeck in Green Bay and coached a Vick and Garcia led team to the playoffs?

It's ridiculous that anyone would undermine Reid as an offensive coach. He's a terrific offensive coach. The reason why McCarthy is a better coach is because he's 100x the game manager than Reid, not because of the ability to handle QBs or run an offense.

Mark Brunnel was also developed by Reid.

Steve Bono and Aaron Brooks? LMAO

That was the original point. The argument was "Any coach can look good with Rodgers at QB." I was simply pointing out McCarthy knows QBs just as much as Reid does PLUS he can actually manage the game. That's why McCarthy has a Super Bowl win with his good QB and why Reid does not with all the good QBs hes had season success with.

It's like saying "Anyone can coach that San Antonio Spurs roster and win"

You are right.

It's a small sample size to suggest that they actually did the development.

The point is, however, that the QBs, including McNabb, who I always said was overrated, that Reid has "developed" have never been great.

I have always also argued that Reid is overrated, as well.

That's a fair point. But let's be real about something. McNabb was a pretty good QB, but he's no Aaron Rodgers. I wonder how well Reid would do with Rodgers as his QB. And aside from McNabb, he has not had great talent to work with.

I believe that Holmgren is responsible for the development of Favre, Brunell and Hasselbeck.

you want to argue that anyone can with Aaron Rodgers but the fact is McCarthy had to actually develop him

Rodgers was the guy that fell in the draft because 23 teams had a knock on him that he would bust out of the NFL like similar QBs did in the same college offense, his hands were small, etc.

Rodgers sat behind a hall of fame QB and McCarthy was able to mold him into what he wanted, who nobody gave a shit about because nobody ever thought he could follow in Brett Favre's footsteps. Aaron Rodgers had to win all those Farve lovers in that culture over.

Meanwhile, Andy Reid couldnt win the big one with his NUMBER 2 OVERALL QB HE HAD FOR A DECADE. There was like 5 QBs Reid could have taken and he nailed it between McNabb as he was 1 of 2 QBs even successful from that draft. And Reid still couldnt win it with him with about a 10 year window, and one of the best DC's in the NFL.

I like Reid, but to say McCarthy is worse than Reid is laughable. Reid has always had the better talent in a longer window and couldnt win what McCarthy did. They did everything in Philly for Reid and McNabb short of stealing the Lombardi Trophy and bringing it to Philly.

McNabb was still an inaccurate QB in Philly.

Reid's offense is a passer friendly offense, and you just need to be a decent QB to succeed.

The Eagles went to 4 NFC Championships and a SB on the strength of Jim Johnson's defense.

the last 10 posts that were arguing for Reid was because of "making McNabb look good" so which is it

making the #2 overall pick look good or making the #24 overall pick that fell in the draft look good and win the super bowl?

that was my point why McCarthy is coach above Reid. lol

The whole argument was "list of coaches better than Reid"

Sorter listed them. Someone said McCarthy is not better. They are wrong. I'm arguing why he is.

And then you went on to list some shitty QBs.

Bono LMAO

A 75.4 QB rating is good?

Jeff Garcia had always been a good QB.

Michael Vick was a big wet fart in Philly.

Vick has always been vastly overrated.

He did, however, have his one true good season at QB under Reid, so credit where it is due.

Garcia was 36 and his noodle arm was so bad by the time he got to Philly, he was throwing Tyler Palko long bombs. Michael Vick wasn't a big wet fart in Philly. He had a terrific 2010, a solid enough 2011 (8-8 despite a putrid defense), and for some reason 2012 the entire team went off the rails. His struggles in 2011 were because he was getting knocked around and was supposedly playing with broken ribs.

They had a damn good offense those years too. Their lowest rank in points per game in those season was 11th. They were a pretty well balanced team.

And yet still better than Alex Smith.

Reid is not going to get more out of this guy than Harbaugh did. You are delusional if you believe that.

Yes, enough about the merits of Andy Reid, we need to get back to the task at hand: Alex Smith is a mediocre qb.

What is more?

I think Reid does a fine job of masking deficiencies, while getting the most out of the mediocre abilities of the QBs he coaches.

I think there are coaches who bring out the best with their QBs, while some simply don't get the worst.

Reid is in the latter group.

I think he'll get better numbers from Smith than Harbaugh, but that is simply a function of more attempts.

He'll still get the middle of the pack game manager that Harbaugh got out of him.

I think luck was a big part of it too.

4th and 26? Probably one of the craziest plays in NFL history. Never thought they would get that.

Steve Bono went 13-3 that year. That's no different than people arguing for Reid saying "he made Jeff Garcia/AJ Feeley look good"

It's the same thing. They are are on the same level with QB development, McCarthy might have the edge in that too

but what McCarthy absolutely crushes Andy Reid in, is game management. Ask any Eagles fan.

This is what worries me. It took SF years to Dilfer him to the point he could be effective and now we're trying to make him a gunslinger.

No, a gunslinger is a guy that takes his shots all game.

Tight windows, deep balls.

Andy Reid is going to turn him into a pop gun.

Quick short passes, slants, screens, with an occassional shot over the top.

You are looking at this only half way. Alex Smith, couldn't even dilfer his way under Nolan and Singletary. They wanted to run run and throw, and in the nfl, you cant always live in 3rd and forevers. I have tried on numerous occasions to explain this. And im being very respectful to you about this because you are always courteous to me. Alex Smith, or any qb, had zero chance at success under Nolan, and Singletary. While the rest of the league values the qb, those guys didn't. They just didn't. They valued their defenses, and their running games. We only just saw the past two years, any potential of what Alex Smith could be. Now, myself, im very pessimistic as to whether Alex Smith can be opened up to being more than he was the past two years. I think that Nolan, and Singletary, completely broke him, not mentally, but they preached about not making mistakes so much, and in the NFL, as the qb, you have to be willing to take chances. Now, can Andy Reid trigger that in him? We as niner fans saw a glimpse of that in his last full start against Arizona. He made plays in that game, that he hadn't made in his entire career.

AGAINST THE CARDINALS! WOW!

lol

What ever you have to tell yourself. You should go back and look at that run. Their defense was HORRID during the regular season, but was LIGHTS OUT in the playoffs. Do some research before you go to calling people a dumbass, or do you not remember that it was in fact, BJ RAJI, with the game clinching INT for a td that sealed the super bowl. And, IM the dumbass lol.
Lol, Yes, you know this how? Alex Smith will have a career year under Reid this year. I tried to bet you on this a couple months ago, but you bitched out, so its not for discussion. But, Alex Smith, has gotten better every year since 2009. There is no reason to believe that with the full support, of his head coach, that you should expect him to fail. I could be wrong, but I would bet more on him succeeding, faster than I would him failing.

Well yes. The very same cardinals that the week after, PICKED OFF MATT RYAN 5 TIMES. Yes, the cardinals.........

18/19 with three tds, against anyone is impressive......

care to argue?

Clay, I am glad that you can enjoy this offseason with such pessimism. Gonna suck for you during the regular season when the Chiefs are actually winning, and Alex Smith isn't sucking like you are trying to hard to have everyone believe. Im sure you will rage and destroy your computer........