BOOM. Logic Bomb!

You SHOULD be scared....

Theres 2 possibilities here....

1)They nail it, and this plan works flawlessly (either ALex Smith becomes our QBOTF or we somehow use him to transition into one within 2 seasons, while maintaining the best parts of our team, without blowing it up and starting over.....) This will prove many wrong, and prove Reid, Dorsey and company geniouses...(Executive of the decade!)

2) They miss wildly on this one and it ripples through and ****s up our team for another 5 years of no playoff wins , and this regime is a bust.



Theres really not much middle ground because they didnt GIVE themselves any middle ground with this "win now with ALex Smith" type of all-in poker move.

While this is the optimistic view, two second-rounders state (strongly) otherwise.

I probably agree.


However, again, I don't think they really think "thats good enough". I'd say they probably think he can be better here.


History says otherwise, but they're much more intelligent in terms of football (hopefully) than I am. So we'll see.

I don't understand. Why wouldn't there be any middle ground?

Why are people convinced that Reid and Dorsey, two guys who have brought in lots of QBs, wouldn't keep trying to bring in new QBs? Smith doesn't have a long-term deal. And the offense they're likely migrating to will probably be very friendly to college QBs.

If this is the price they'll pay for a stopgap, the new regime demonstrates a reckless disregard for draft value.

the hand wringing over the comp for AS is silly at this point... he hasnt been extended... he was the best QB available and we had to start some one. The all or nothing point of view is foolish.

at this point, we might want to just, ya know, see how this works out.

Completely disagree.

This team HAS to start winning again. They have to get Arrowhead loud again. That will do wonders for recruiting new players and convincing their good players to stay. I get the feeling that Clark Hunt told Dorsey and Reid there is no 5-year plan. It has to start happening now.

And if Reid is serious about really exploring the spread and/or a read option and/or the Pistol, Smith allows Reid to maybe become an innovator. The amount Reid / Pederson can learn from tinkering this year will be very valuable.

Two 2nd round picks is high for a QB like Smith. But people are overreacting to how much we lost from it. If the Chiefs end up with a legit franchise QB within 3 years, those picks won't matter.

If that is the case then you can pin that loss on SOC as well as their wins. What happened last year was a demonstration about how this fan base is win now or we'll get the pitchforks. They went after the best option to win now because that's what the fans flying the ****ing banners wanted.

Who knows if that is the plan or they think AS is the answer. I do know this: Unlike the previous regime this qb hasn't been extended without playing a snap.

No it's not.

I hope they do. Being at LEAST mediocre with Alex Smith - and trading away those picks - makes that task harder, though. No way around that.

I would disagree.

It may have not been printed on the banners but sick of losing is what fueled the fire. If you can't see that you're naive.

I think a 'middle ground' type of situation wouldve been getting a Matt Flynn or some other free agent, without giving up the #34 overall draft pick and whatever (presumably pretty high) second rounder we will have to give up next season. A middle ground wouldve been to sign Albert long term, and use our #1 on something that had a decent chance of really being a true impact position instead of probably losing ALbert next season. (more or less lateral move, by most metrics)
A middle ground wouldve been using the #34 pick on more weapons to develop...so that we acknowledge we probably are a team still development instead of trying to pretend we are a team that has a chance to make an impact NOW in the playoffs.

Thats just my opinion, and I know it wouldnt sell seats short term....but hey..

And I say all this knowing I am just some shlub joe schmoe hoping like hell that the 'win now' thing somehow works out.

If this is what they think, Hunt and co. greatly misunderstood the true motivation of SOC.

It wasn't about W and L. It was about the clueless buffoon running the show and the damage he was doing to the franchise.

I think it is all much simpler than that... we had no ****ing QB, we went and got the best available in a bad market. All this screaming about "not knowing the value of the position" is horse shit... you may not like the results, but they recognized the problem and addressed as best as they could, they believe. Geno ****ing smith isn't going to beat out Sanchez... think about that? They are talking here about him already being well behind and being used as a "change of pace" QB.

Look, perhaps AS is a stopgap? But if he gets us to a top 5 QB eventually, so be it. There was no top 5 or 10 QB available...they are hard to come by. Lets just be happy that AS hasn't extended yet.

We flew the banners because we wanted the jackholes leading the franchise gone. That's it.

I'm perfectly willing to sit through a 6-10 year with a rookie QB.

6-10 with a veteran QB who shows no improvement over what we had? Not so willing.

Which was.... LOSING. Nobody would have given a shit if we were winning playoff games, lets be honest.

Who cares if he's "locked up" if he has an impressive 2013 outing? The contract can be structured in favor of the Chiefs so that if his play declines, he could be cut rather easily.

Pioli's biggest problem was that he wouldn't cut the cord. I don't envision Reid, Dorsey or Hunt repeating that mistake.

So if cassle and pioli won a playoff game last year riding jc and the d to the ground banners would have been flying?

The probability of this is extremely low. I like trying to simplify things, but I think you are over simplifying. There was a trade off....Win more now or try a slower build approach...we went with the win now.

If we do not 'win now' then this plan failed.

Just saying 'we went with the best QB available' is a bit too simple of an outlook, for my taste.

Exactly. SOC acts like they were marching hand-in-hand in Birmingham singing "we shall overcome"... like they're was some moral authority attached to flying a banner complaining about a losing football team.

While I agree with you, I think that proves my point. An organization that is run like a complete circus was the only one that thought he was more than a 3rd rounder.

It doesn't mean we failed. There are multiple teams that built a terrific foundation behind the wrong QB, then ended up with the right one. Seattle is an example of a team that took multiple swings, failed multiple times and found one. San Fran is a team that seems to have found a franchise QB even though they had a veteran. Denver and Arizona are two teams who did it and plugged in a last-chance veteran.

Yeah, if the Chiefs settle for Alex Smith, I see them as long shots. I think it's insane to think the Chiefs couldn't spend a first round pick or take multiple swings at young players over the next 3 years who could ultimately replace him.

If Reid and Dorsey prove to be as flexible in their approach to the QB position as you're suggesting, then I agree. However, it seems that far too much "old school" dominates how organizations view "their guy" at QB, largely because how this position performs dictates the job security of the decision-makers.

Sure. But I see a disconnect here... people, not you per se, talk about taking the time to build the team the right way - then complain about taking Fisher, who was the consensus top player in the draft. There is a moving target with many of these conversations... the "right way" is usually just whatever that person wanted...

It was more than that.

Pioli was a bad person who treated people like shit.

It all comes back around to, "What else were they supposed to do?"

If or when they extend Alex Smith, then depending on his play there will be ample time for hand-wringing.

Based on the options available this offseason (nil), giving him a 1 or 2 year trial is fine.

There isn't a Chiefs fan anywhere who would have cared if Pioli bit the heads off puppies if they won games on the field.

by 'win now' i mean win a playoff game within couple or so, under Reid's coaching, without having to blow the team up again within 5 years

I dont mean this one season

Sorry for miuscommunication

I don't if there's enough data available to state that the current board and Chairman share the same view as their father.

From my perspective, Clark has performed admirably in firing Peterson, firing Pioli and staff before his contract expired and in changing the organizational structure of the franchise.

He hired the best available head coach and a coveted front office man as GM. The coaching staff is certainly the best and most successful since the Vermeil era, if not the Schottenheimer era.

I'm not sure how much more change people expected in less than five months.
.

Spare us the self-righteous indignation.... you'd have sucked Pioli to the hilt if he had brought home the lombardi trophy... we all would have, no matter how he offended our bullshit midwestern aw-shucks morals.

The question is a bit longer, IMO: "What else were they supposed to do based on their level of expectations?"

Too many are leaving out the latter part because "it's unfair to place high expectations on this team."

If the organization expects to be in the playoffs in '13, then Smith might well have been the best option. If the organization is simply trying to break even, put asses in the seats, then the field becomes a bit larger and less costly. Given that we know the metric for success with the Smith trade is 8-8, I'm not so sure that Dorsey is predicting playoffs.

But he should be.

As Bowden recently said when discussing the Royals, and the same principle applies here, .500 is meaningless. You don't need to get to .500 to establish a "winning culture." You need ****ing talent. Talent wins.

And Smith is not a particularly talented QB, even though he now wears Chiefs colors.

We just put up with 20 years of Carl Peterson in exchange for 10 years of regular season-only success, after all.

I was absolutely in favor of all of the organizational changes that were made with management and coaching...until these same assholes made, essentially, the same move that all of the assholes before them have made.

Sorry, Smith is, statistically, a Cassel clone. This is a fact, not an opinion, and I want more. All of the fans, quite frankly, should demand more.

So, it's your opinion that Reid and Dorsey aren't interested in winning the Super Bowl?

True.

But there's a case to be made Pioli being a giant shitheel was a pretty major roadblock to winning...reportedly lots of qualified individuals in the league wouldn't even think about working with him.

I'd say SOC had plenty of moral ground to stand on.

Ultimately? Of course, at least I would assume.

But the team they've assembled for '13 has no chance. None, and this is largely because of the QB, because if you don't have a QB, you have no chance.

So the question becomes, how long will the '13 Chiefs resemble the future Chiefs? Some seem to be betting on the fact that the organization will continue to chase QBs. Others, not surprisingly, are offering, IMO, unrealistically favorable evaluations of Alex Smith, whom I believe is the very definition of mediocre.

C'mon Deez, a little objectivity would be nice here.

Smith was on the verge of taking the 2011 49'ers to a Super Bowl and was one of the elite QB's in the league statistically in 2012 until the concussion.

He's had two very good years where he's been at the top of NFL QB's in a number of categories.

Previous to that, he suffered through one of the worst coaching/offensive coordinator carousels that's been seen in the NFL in recent memory.

The guy has the size, athleticism and talent and has shown that when he's been coupled with a good head coach that he can lead a team to the post season.

I don't think being in the top three in the league in QB rating, completion percentage and YPA is anywhere close to "mediocre."

And I really don't know who the hell you thought was going to be quarterbacking this team that is/was going to be any better than Alex Smith. Were you hoping that Reid and Co. were going to keep Cassel as their starting QB? Did you expect them to sign broke dick Carson Palmer? What exactly did you want if you think that Alex Smith is "mediocre?" What type of QB expectations did you have for the new regime?

The problem is that his YPA is complete misinformation.

He's not a guy who throws the ball down the field.

He was near the bottom of the league in yards per completion.

It's real easy to prop up a mediocre QB with completion percentage and QB rating.

Meanwhile he's still only producing 190 yards a game (or less).

Alex Smith is fool's gold.

There was no better option available in the draft or free agency. They got the best guy they could, for essentially a second round pick.

I haven't sen one move for personnel that I though was a downgrade. If anything, I can't thing of a singular position that hasn't been upgraded, whether its players, coaching staff and front office personnel.

Again, I'm don't know how they could have done more to change this franchise than what has been done to date.

My expectation is that Smith is going to shoulder this team to the playoffs in '13. Anything other than this is a complete failure. No bullshit.

This is the standard that all fans should have.

But if this fails, I see no difference between 8-8, 6-10, or 2-14. They're all ****ing disgraceful failures. But I'm not quite so sure that management agrees that all three metrics are on the level.

Two of them, unless Dorsey fails at his job in year one.

It's very simple: I'm tired of taking someone's trash and saying that it's good enough for my team. Another organization, literally, looked at Alex Smith and said, "We have to improve."

But the Chiefs, predictably, don't seem to agree. **** that. I've seen it before, and I know how this bullshit ends. And so do you.

Yeah, the Saints made a horrible mistake acquiring Drew Brees...

If 8-8 gets this guy the fat payday, it's time to just close up shop.

Which brings me to:

Change for the sake of change doesn't mean much to me in regards to the Chiefs. The problem, as I see it, is this; I don't see Clark Hunt as a "football guy". Not at all. I see a man who is more concerned with his father's legacy than a man who eats, sleeps, lives, and breathes the game of football. I see Hunt as a guy who hires guys like Dorsey and Reid, and tells them, "well if there's a problem, YOU figure it out; that's what I'm paying you for". I'm not saying the man isn't "hands-on", but if I owned a team, I guarantee you I would know more about upcoming coordinators, managers, and coaches than what I could glean from my owner-buddies at the once-a-year round table meeting.
Your business is either your passion or it isn't. And in the case of KC; it shows.

You did NOT just ****ing compare...no you didn't.

Apparently the next Peyton Manning in spite of the fact no one even remotely close to his talent was even in this draft.

I'd much rather have a hands-off owner who hires good people and lets them do their job.

I just wish we'd stop hiring retread head coaches and overpaying for retread QBs.

No one wants Jerry Jones, but there has to a balance between the two extremes.

And that starts with INFORMED, PASSIONATE ownership.

It's different this time, I swear.

I could care less if he throws for 100 yards a year if he wins. He doesn't need to throw 60 yard bombs if throwing a 10 yard out works. Our last QB could do neither.

Like most of the NFL is doing? Pete Carroll is a retread and seems to be working out pretty good in Seattle.

No. When he was protected to the hilt and played everything safe, our last QB was a "Pro-Bowler."

The NFL is no longer pass to score, run to win. If you cannot throw the ball often and effectively, you have no chance. Thus, it's foolish to claim that Smith will win without posting, at the very least, good statistics.

Yes, you are that ****ing stupid to think I compared Smith to Brees.

The season can't come quick enough.

Out of fairness, he also hired Haley. So he has gone outside the box. Although I've never thought he was who we really wanted in 2009.

The guy throws the ball down the field (20+) and intermediate (11-20) less than Matt Cassel.

That's pretty shocking after what we witnessed here over 4 years.

No shit. Bring on the losses!

He has throw effectively, just not 60 yard bombs. Our previous QB was a pro bowler because he played against one of the easiest schedules in recent memory. That is the only reason for his success.

Pete is kind of an enigma and a special case. Going back to college and building a winning program both humbled him and bolstered him. Look for Pete to be a goddamned WIN FACTORY for a long, long time.

I thought Peeholi hired Haley?

LMAO

Well let's see if that continues this year before anointing him as a failure here. The offensive schemes he played in in SF could have been a large reason for that.

So Harbaugh's schemes actually held Alex back? LMAO

200 YPG does not equal effectively in the modern NFL.

Gochiefs needs to get the cobb out of his vagina.

Alex is just the latest in a long line of whores to be run over by my Cadillac. I'm not even going to throw him a 20 out the window as I drive by.

Sorry, in his "best year," Smith averaged 174.

But, but, but, YPA!!! Yeah, no.

It was all a conspiracy you know...

The magic Silver Bullet.

No, you see things through your own prism regardless of any and all evidence to the contrary.

Reid, who coached Kolb into a starter, passed on Kolb and chose instead Alex Smith, who undoubtedly cost more. The fact that you don't recognize that he felt Smith is BETTER is silly.

Let's not kid ourselves, Pete Carroll went to one of the elite CFB schools and built a winner in Southern California. It is not like he went to KU and built a national power. I am not sure how much that humbled him. Reid built a power in Philly, an NFL team. The last few years weren't so good as the burden of being GM and HC became too much. He is a damn fine coach and a very, very good retread.

Who knows. Lets see what he does under Reid's schemes.

Kind of difficult to compare Carroll to Reid. Carrol spent a decade coaching in the NCAA, outside of the regular NFL circle, and his worst year with the Patriots was a .500 season.

Reid, on the other hand, sports a 66-61 record since 2005, including two losing seasons and two .500 seasons, to balance four seasons with 9 or more wins. The last two years in Philadelphia were an unmitigated disaster. Sorry I don't see a reason to be wildly optimistic about that.

Dude, it's not like the PAC isn't complete ****ing garbages outside of Oregon...

And frankly, I don't remember Philly winning a bunch of Superbowls in Reid's prime. Did I miss something?

Baseball has a Mendoza line. Maybe NFL needs a "Cassel line".

It's amazing how similar these conversations are. And no, I'm not equating Smith to Cassel. But it's like deja vu all over again in a lot of ways.

I've said it before: when you have to try so very hard to prove a guy is even average, you're probably in trouble.

Garbage or not, they still had to play someone good to win a NC. And to think that the PAC being garbage somehow minimized how good those teams were is just plain silly. A good number of those teams were dominant and would have been dominant regardless of the conference they played in.

Yet they were consistently in the NFCCG and did make one SB. How many other coaches out there can state that? Not many.

Okay, so you agree that Carroll did balls-out at USC and is doing so in the pros. Glad we got that cleared up.

As to your second point, all I can think of is poor Marv Levy.LMAO

LMAO

The intellectual dishonesty among Alex Smith fans is criminal.

EDIT: and the end result is the same: LOSER.

All I am saying is give him a chance in Reid's offense, nothing more. Some on here have already passed judgement and have gone full chicken little because we have him as our QB. If he fails, then try again with someone else. In the minds of a QB guru and a guy known for his ability to scout talent he was better than anyone available this year in the draft.

Hope in one hand....you know the rest.