Yeah, I get it, but he prolly just drug his whole family into the fray and the further testing of what can be said while having the expectation that no matter what's said, the person receiving the comments is supposed to just walk away.

If there are kids in his life, his own or grandkids, this could get ugly...

Eh, if Smart is accusing the guy of using a racial slur when he didn't, then it is still a race issue. Accusing someone of racism when there isn't any is just as bad as racism itself IMO.

Why isn't Smart getting more criticism for lying and playing the race card? How are we ever going to get past racism if those who cry wolf about it aren't called out?

Why are you assuming he's lying?

There's a big difference between players shoving each other and players going into the stands and getting violent with the fans. When Malice at the Palace happened, the NBA arguably overreacted in order to save their image as a league.

Because I saw the video and clearly heard "you piece of crap," and to the best of my knowledge, none of the other fans nearby have stepped forward to back up Smart's version of events.

Don't get me wrong, Orr is still a no-life loser who gets his jollies by insulting college athletes, but that doesn't automatically make him a racist.

Race card....easy and fast for some.

I don't get how anybody can listen to that video and claim they hear anything with certainty. For me, I can't hear the word "crap" at all. It's incredibly inconclusive. Also, how do we know the audio picked up the entire dialogue of the confrontation as well?

Coward dumb fan standing behind his fan shield heckling and saying stupid things to college kids should have expected more that what happened.

These are college kids playing a game...what is the purpose of a grown man being this stupid to a kid?

Shit happens all the time and I can't recall any other college players ever laying their hands on fans. What if it was a student? Because you know there's always gonna be drunk students talking trash. It's part of the game and always has been. The difference is, Smart is a hothead and apparently an idiot.

Student on student I get

I get that you're talking about younger kids.

But just for the record, you're opposed to grown men harassing strangers they've never met before? I wonder if Orr will re-examine his behavior when it's his own kids that get heckled.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/le...marts-mistake/

Really? How many times had the same thing happened without a college basketball player shoving a fan in the stands? Id venture to say millions of times. If Smart cant handle it at this level, whats he gonna do at the next? Go "Ron Artest" on someone in the stands? He definitely has some lessons to learn. Dont minimize what he did. Fault on both sides.....

Fans say shit. Always have - always will. They get asked to leave events and sometimes get banned from coming back. Sometimes they even go to jail for their actions. That's the norm in that instance. There are much better ways for an athlete to deal with out of line fans who act and say stupid stuff.

Needing to take care of his family is all the more reason for him to control his temper as nba scouts look on...

I personally feel that if we looked the other way for a while (a few years) and let these players beat the shit out of fans when they scream out-right obscenities, we might find that these asshole fans STFU (and cheer their along instead of degrade the other team).

While I don't want to go back to prehistoric days, I do think we need to evolve to a state where you only talk as tough as you're willing to back up (or try to). This cowardly shit of expecting the players to be the bigger person is shit!

Yell while the other team is trying to concentrate, be quite so your team can focus and think, and waive those goofy things to distract them then they shoot free throws - it's all good, but call an athlete a name/insult only as much as you're willing to back up.

I think fat-man is little more than an Internet tough guy. He may be there in person, but he's sure counting on rules and the current pussification of the planet keeping his teeth secured to his gums.

I chuckled.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps2fd01460.jpg

from the phog

Well, fans only talk shit because they feel safe hiding behind the rules. I get your point, I really do, but I'm fine with people like fat-man getting his junk punched for being an asshole.

Because they're piece of shit sand aggie fans.

Aside from that, the camera was not pointed in the direction of Orr when the piece of crap comment comes in so saying that is definitively what Orr said is ****ing ridiculous.

this whole is ****ing stupid, especially smart. what and idiot

don't care. They're probably sand aggie fans too.

I like your style....

I hate sand aggies as much as the raiders and donkeys.

Well if you run across fat-man and his two-bit whore wife, make sure you taunt them ruthlessly and remind them that their brain-dead parents messed up when they didn't choose to abort them...

absolutely should be getting blasted for it

you don't yell fire in a movie theater, unless there is one
you don't cry rape unless you have been
you don't play the race card unless it really was


imo you should definitely get into trouble if you bullshit about this type of stuff

I haven't heard the tape, but if it trails off and crap is hard to understand, it's not outside the realm of possibility that he said, "piece of crap ****er."

That being said, evidence is sure pointing to no slur. But I admit it's hard to believe him going off like that with no slur, when terrible awful shit is flung at every college game and this happens just this side of never.

Not only is EVERY fan confirming Orr said piece of crap, but ALL of the media personnel under the basket are confirming as well. But KCConnection needs more evidence to be convinced. Must believe Smart is fouled evertime he flops too.

You ppl have some thin skin if you are freaking out because Orr said piece of crap...citing garbage like what if it was your kid who was told that. If I had a kid, and he did what Marcus Smart did id be embarrassed that he loses his cool so easily. A reasonable amount of fan heckling is to be expected, and quite frankly is part of the home and away allure of sports. I wouldnt want it any other way. Heckling does go to far, but this reallly was not one of those times

Sorry, but the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Still waiting for the first public statement on this issue from anybody.

Anybody being remotely reasonable should be able to see that there isn't anything substantial either way. The video constitutes a whole lot of nothing.

You can do better than that, I bet.

Still hilarious that you've taken a complete 180 on this issue over an inconclusive video that proves nothing and a PR statement with no credibility from the fan who insulted the player.

See your point but the kid was wrong. Needs to learn control if he wants someone to invest millions in him.

I agree with Vail.

Never said he wasn't. You can't resort to violence over insults. Doesn't mean the fan was in the right either (no matter what it was exactly that he said). Fans shouldn't be able to yell whatever the hell they want at athletes with no repercussions (especially college athletes who haven't numbed themselves to it all like the pros and are well paid for it).

So I just heard KK on the radio say the officials didn't have the authority to kick Smart out of the game. Is that right? Sure seems like the refs should be able to remove a player from the game.

Yeah I can see that to an extent. Certainly no racialslurs. But
Imho paying fans have always been able to call a player a bum. Fan being short for fanatic, after all...

There's no set rule for fan-directed violence, but I'm pretty sure it's in their power to do whatever they want to control the game.

I don't agree. I've always hated that aspect of fan culture. The kinds of shit that gets thrown these athletes' way is completely ridiculous and it's all because fans think they can get away with it.

Fair enough, we can civilly disagree. I've always found fan taunting funny for the most part. There are some clever taunts out there, especially in college.
(Btw thank goodness for spell correct, I had typed "clever taints")

I'm OK with the rare clever taunt. Personal insults, though, occur far more often and they shouldn't be acceptable.

Flagrant 2 is an ejection, so that's not right.

Dude gets in a fight he's gone. I think that's pretty universal over most non-hockey team sports.

I think it all depends on the context. I sat in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium while the fans yelled at Jeff Francouer that they ****ed his wife and other similar taunts. He just turned around and laughed and smiled, and the fans got a kick out of that. I think that type of heckling is always expected in some places. But I have a harder time with it in the college context.
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:thumb:

Seriously? You are aware of who Marcus Smart is, right? What racial slur did the chair say to him in West Virginia before he kicked it during another one of his tantrums?

Smart clearly has anger issues. He's had a series of on-court incidents already this year, and once you consider that Travis Ford is a joke of a coach and an enabler with a dysfunctional program, it seemed destined to boil over into something as extreme as this.

Nobody is talking about him calling anyone a piece of crap. We will see how that pans out. Everything we've heard is that the guy does heckle kids and according to John Lucas, who I think is much more reliable than smart, he says some strange shit. If he does, then I have no problem with it. It's just like baseball. If you're going to be an a batter, you better be ready to step into the batters box the next inning.

Not going to disagree with any of this. But he was laying on the floor and popped up enraged like a switch flipped.

Maybe the roid rage just kicked in, I don't know.

I've been on the other side of the argument the whole time. Don't lump me in with the Smart loyalists.

Agreed. I also think heckling at comedy clubs is maybe one of the most bizarre socially acceptable practices. I love the Seinfeld episode where Jerry walks into a heckler's office and heckles her.

Kramer knows how to handle hecklers...

1) College or pro there will always be people way out of line trying to tear you down. You never, NEVER, give in to it.

2) A push. A PUSH. I'm good with 3 games.

3) Keep in mind you're a college player and your entire life is supported by your game day performance. Never jeopardize the future for the emotions you feel in the present...

I forget. How did Kramer handle hecklers?

Uh. Not well. In real life...

I don't think anybody's arguing that what Smart did wasn't insanely stupid.

I just think the system is pretty stupid when a fan can get away with saying some nasty shit, and players (especially amateur players) aren't allowed to even jaw back or flick the guy off. Again, we'll see if nasty shit was said in this instance. My guess is this guy should have been clocked a long time ago.

You keep saying that, once evidence came to light and EVERYONE else collaborated what Orr said of course I'm going to change my tune. Why wouldn't I? I should just blindly keep believing what I initially thought happened? So, thousands of years ago when we thought the Earth was flat and the universe orbited the EARTH, we later found out otherwise, I guess we should just refute all evidence showing otherwise because that was our initial view. okay.

That's part of being a pro-athlete.

And lets not kid ourselves, that's why he's there.

A) This man should never have been allowed on the court where he could interact with the players. HUGE FAIL in security.

B) He was in a position to MAKE - everyone around you is in a position to TAKE.

Every mistake = take. That's why you act pro before you go pro...

It was a Texas fan, shouldn't be anything wrong.

Had the same thing happen in General Admission at Royals Stadium back in the late 80's. Ricky Henderson was in left field and a couple of idiots were going at him like that. Only Henderson mouthed back and grabbed his balls for them

You have to put that in the context of the fact that Orr has done this for years at many games. The guy he flicked off a few years ago went to NFL Europe. I'm sure players he's heckled knew they had no pro prospects.

Smart reacted dumbly. It doesn't sound like he had any reason to react, but we'll see. I do believe, however, in boundaries. And I think for the most part, heckling amateur athletes as obsessively as Orr does is a bit much.

Who are the names of these people that corroborated Orr's story? Where are the public statements? Who has come out to say anything about the situation at all? Again, the absence of any evidence in this case isn't the evidence of absence.

It would be one thing if there was a smoking gun or anything in the way of substantial evidence at all either way. But you changed your mind in the matter of a hour based on an inconclusive video and a statement made by a source with no credibility. That's why it's funny to me.

Texas Tech completed an investigation where they interviewed fans in the vicinity, members of the media behind the basket, and reviewed audio & video footage. There was no evidence whatsoever that Mr. Orr called Smart anything but a piece of crap. But, I'm sure you'll claim conspiracy. Demand to have congress investigate before you believe anything.

And I know you will say, oh well I don't believe them. Look, if ANY of these witnesses disagreed with the Texas Tech investigation, don't you think they would let it be known? To ESPN? To other outlets of the media? I can tell you if I was in their shoes, I'd want my story told on ESPN and EVERYONE that would listen if I could confirm that he called him the N-Word. I'd be on the phone right now negotiating with ESPN what payment I would accept to go on TV and tell my account of the incident. I'd be a quasi celebrity for a few weeks. If anything, ANYTHING, someone would be tempted to lie about it and say he did call him that despite the other fans collaboration AND video AND audio footage.

So a completely biased party completed an "investigation" in less than 15 hours (sounds like some really thorough, detailed stuff) and decided to stand behind their booster with a history of taunting/insulting players. Why would any reasonable person take that as gospel?


No, not necessarily. Confronting racism is a difficult thing to do at any time, let alone in an extremely public situation like this one. And that especially applies if you're not 100% about what you heard (and if that ridiculously inconclusive video is any indication, it was probably pretty hard to hear exactly what was said). The fact that nobody has come out publicly at all to make a statement either way isn't evidence of anything.

Nope. It appears no racial slur was made. I guess you will need Smart to come out and admit it to change your mind, but whatever. Piece of crap is still an insult, but playing the race card is WEAK to justify your action. I dont think the whole incident is that big a deal.

Just say he was throwing insults and I had enough. People can make up their minds on who went to far, but apparently Smart needed something bigger then "piece of crap" to garner sympathy for his actions.

Unless you've decided to blindly believe in those who have no credibility, I don't think anything is apparent here.

No, just actual evidence. That'd be nice.

Yep, Smart came up with this diabolical plan only seconds after reacting to the asshole's comment. Sounds reasonable.

Yet another quality retort.

Roid Rage is an option. Seen his face lately?

Second, don't you think OSU would be all over this if there was a racial slur? I mean come on, really?


Other than the soap and dick washers here, nobody really siding with Smart.

Anyone still holding on to the idea that a racial slur was said by Orr has an agenda and wants to push the race issue. There have been interviews, a tape that is pretty conclusive to everyone but KCConnection, and both Smart and Ford made statements where they refused to talk about what was said. Don't you think that Smart would be glad to say Orr was a liar if there was any shred of truth to the racial slur story?

If there was no racial lsu, that's pretty awful on Smart to play that to try and cover losing his cool.

Logic?

Doesn't work here... Move along young man...

What if there was a racial Alabama?

Amazing that you're still posting in this thread after your own racial slur in the first post of it.

And it didn't work anyway. Guy's a dumbass.

Blah blah blah...

Smarts balls are dirty, get to washing little man...

On the contrary, I think anybody who denies that there was solely on the basis of a statement made by the booster with a history of taunting players (and a vague "investigation" with no specifics from a completely biased party) probably has an agenda. I'm just saying I don't know. And without sufficient evidence, that's the only rational perspective to take.

Where are these interviews? Can we read/hear them? Are there any direct statements from anybody at all that the public can see?

What a load of shit that is. There's nothing conclusive about that video at all and most people here have commented on how difficult it is to actually hear what was said. You'd have to be being pretty disingenuous to deny it.

Any PR professional would tell you that there is no benefit to Smart/Ford saying something like that during a public apology designed solely to protect/rebuild his public image. There's nothing to be gained from his perspective by getting in a fight through the media with a fan and prolonging the cycle of this.

Drop any more racial slurs today about people you don't know?

Stop embarrassing yourself. Please.

Just on you and your tinfoil hat...

No, I think I would have remembered if you called me a stupid ****er.

reporting this post for racial content....

LMAO what a reeruned fight

Good, maybe it will actually direct some attention to your ridiculous conduct in this thread.

Regardless, its obvious something derogatory was said to set Smart off.

Glad to see alot of the media today vilifying Orr. Dude is an obnoxious bully. Its too bad the University will basically do nothing to punish him.
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So you have no problem with letting racist posts like Reerun's go on this forum, I take it.