The Chiefs offensive line coaches have done a masterful job of coaching up guys with a high ceiling.

Maybe this trade works, maybe it doesn't but a 5th round pick would be a pittance if he actually meets his ceiling.

If that never happens, it's not a big deal, as history has shown that the Chiefs haven't had much luck with 5th round draft picks in the past 20+ years.

What these trades say to to me is that Veach sees more value in guys with high ceilings than late round draft picks.

Ragland for a 2019 4th is a steal because it's highly unlikely that a 4th round linebacker would have the pedigree of Ragland.

The Chiefs need more top end talent, not less. This roster has enough JAG's already.

ROFL at the one where he falls like a baby that lost its balance.

Coaching him up is the least of my worries at this point. Guy has zero lower body strength, which was a huge knock on him in pre-draft evaluations. It hasn't improved yet. I don't exactly put alot of stock in the Chiefs training staff. If he can get stronger in the lower half, then maybe that coaching up will matter, but Cleveland hasn't had bad O-line coaches either. We'll see. I think KC would have been better served waiting to try and get him for free.

Interestingly, just down the street from the browns is another team that made a habit of stockpiling picks and trade downs. The Cavs had to fire Chris Grant so they could hire a gm who didn't try to get too cute. I think the browns are in the same danger. They keep stockpiling picks, ditching their veterans, and passing on qbs on a wait for next year approach. Only in Cleveland.

I disagree with the notion that the Chiefs training staff hasn't helped players. There's a big difference between Ramik Wilson last year and this year, LDT is way stronger, as is Fisher. Morse made a jump from his rookie season to 2016.

Not everyone can be a physical freak like Eric Berry or Justin Houston but I think the training staff has done a fine job, especially with the lineman.

In Cleveland's (Browns) defense, they really had nothing when Sashi and company took over except a decent O-line. They really have to re-tool everywhere and set a foundation.

I do agree with the fact that they were absolute idiots to pass on Wentz, but outside of that decision I think stockpiling picks for the next couple of years was their best course of action.

We're going to get to see how that action starts to pay off beginning this year, since several players from the 2016 and 2017 classes will be starting.

As it stands, it looks as though Coleman (WR, Rd 1-16), Ogbah (DE, Rd 2-16), Coleman (RT, Rd 3-16), Schobert (MLB, Rd 4-16), Louis (Slot WR, Rd 4-16), Kindred (FS, Rd 4-16), Garrett (DE, Rd 1-17), Peppers (SS, Rd 1-17), Kizer (QB, Rd 2-17), and possibly Gonzalez (K, Rd 7-17) will all start (Louis may be the one exception but likely significant playing time). That's 10 starters in 2 drafts that have been replaced.

Dude has one goal.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzBr6wof1mw

Boiled down to its essence, that first sentence seems to define the Dorsey/Veach template

Lunch bucket try hard guys are a dime a dozen, this method demands top shelf physical traits... then count on coaching, and team culture to develop that try hard for the team mentality

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt... but it always works out more often than not, when you have a great team behind them

I think the moneyball guy on the browns is trying to outclever the competition. He wants to prove he can win with diamonds in the rough. The same strategy that had the Cavs reach for Anthony Bennett and Dion Waiters. We will see how the browns drafts actually wind up. But they gave up a lot of veteran talent to get these picks. And they passed up several excellent picks to trade down. Those guys are starting because they traded away all the veterans and their backups are horrible. We will see but last year's browns picks didn't do very much.

I'm talking to my friend who is a FSU fan. He is very excited about Erving being traded to KC. He was one of his favorite players at FSU. He thought he went to a terrible fit in Cleveland with their power blocking scheme. Apparently FSU utilizes a zone blocking scheme. Therefore he obviously thinks that it's a perfect fit in KC. Thinks we may have picked up a steal. Says he was very raw, for he was a DE until his Junior year at FSU. Says that it may take him a year or two yet, but the upside is huge.

I am excited about this.

I had no idea that the guy played DE in college.

Yay, another Chief not named Alex for Sandy to hate.

I think tanking and loading up on draft choices is the right way to rebuild a franchise.

They didn't like Wentz. So what. They added pieces and added even more this year.

Their defense could be downright nasty.

Cleveland is a Zone Blocking scheme under Hue. They were last year too.


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Per overthecap, the Chiefs are projected to get a 5th rd pick for Nick Foles, so this trade does not hurt KC's draft projections for 2018.

Just googled that. You are right.

Pretty sure he's only been playing OL for 4 years total.

That combined with the fact that he's played all over the place on the OL makes him worth the gamble. Maybe it clicks for him at some point.

Tanking is the new black.

He should just fall down every play and just try to buy alex a second or two

Erving gets shaken up on this terrible play. Or was it just embarrassment?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0Sm7KR4z_5k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I think watching the Bills/Jets games will be entertaining...they are both tanking...it just depends on who wants to suck more.

Neither one wants to win...they want a top QB. That's going to be some conflicted shit...both starting QBs are probably going to be sick that weekend.

Obviously the Chiefs OL depth is absolute crap.

Erving was a prospect a lot of people on this board mocked/wanted.

Having that said, his game hasn't been able to translate well into the NFL from what I've read, I also don't pay any attention to the Browns.

But maybe this is part of the Browns plague. Maybe a change of scenery to a more winning culture will light a fire under his ass and he'll perform more up to his draft hype/potential.

Seriously being drafted by the Browns has to keep some of these kids up at night knowing they're going into a failing situation.

Not one team has OLine depth.


I will take talent working with outstanding coaching every time over a loser franchise that is so bad it receives empathy from it's own division rivals.

They are also idiots for not drafting Ruben Foster at 29.

and an OLineman but man u were so close

I don't think the browns approach is wrong. I wonder if it's a little arrogant. It's almost like they're trying to prove moneyball works by passing on highly touted prospects. They're not just trading high priced veterans. They're also giving away cheap ones, repeatedly trading down in the first round, and passing up on highly ranked prospects.

The Browns are NOT employing "Moneyball".

NFL teams have to spend within 99% of the Cap Limit over a 4 year period. Baseball has no such rule.

The Browns are NOT going out and getting guys on the cheap, they're loading up on draft picks in order to select the best player that fits there system that's available.

They have SIX picks in the Top 100 in 2018 and they'll probably continue to stockpile talent and move around in the draft.

It won't be very long until they're a contender year in and year out.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

I would give up every pick they made last year for their original 2nd overall to pick Carson Wentz.

Carson Wentz over Garrett, Njoku, Peppers and Kizer?

No thanks.

I've been shucking wisdom teeth all morning, what have I missed

Garrett was from them sucking. He wasn't a traded pick. I'm talking about the 2016 draft.

Carson Wentz or...

Corey Coleman
Emmanuel Ogbah
Carl Nassib
Shin Coleman
Cody Kessler
Joe Schobert
Ricardo Louis
Etc

I don't blame them for passing over Wentz. While he was my favorite and IMO, far more advanced than Jared Goff, he was coming from a small school.

Plus, they clearly had a vision of what the team would look like in the following 3 years, as well as the draft, so they didn't need to force the pick.

Their 2016 draft turned out pretty well, they added a nice piece in Jamie Collins and by all accounts, Myles Garrett is for real.

AND they have two 1st's, two 2nd's and two 3rd's in the 2018 draft.

That makes more sense. Yeah.....I'd trade all that garbage for Wentz.

Am I the only one that's not a big fan of Wentz?

And with that....it makes a ton of sense to see what you have in Kizer this year. He could be your QBoTF or he could be another Jimmy Clausen scenario.

I don't disagree with how the Browns are building their team. The draft is the way to go. I just disagree with how they drafted. I would rather have a Von Miller like player AND Patrick Willis instead of Von Miller and a Greg Olson like player.

It's a little difficult to judge Wentz because his receiving corp was just so awful last year.

He reminded me of Rothlisberger pre-draft and looked the part for a while.

It'll be interesting to see if Goff makes any type of advancement this year but the Rams roster is so depleted that it could be difficult to assess him, too.

I still can't figure out why Les Snead has a job but that's a different subject altogether.

Exactly. And with all of their picks, they could still take a QB in the Top 5, let him sit for a year (especially if they choose Josh Allen) and flip Kizer for a pick.

They basically have endless options.

I agree with Dane here.

I love what the Browns are doing.

Yeah Snead sucks.

I dunno, I just don't see wentz as this can't miss type guy. Maybe I need to watch him more

B
 

Lulz...CP for the last ten years

This year, but not last year IMO. They let 2 elite OL walk last year in Mack/Schwartz.

They could have kept 3 of Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz. Instead they only kept 2 and tried overpaying for FA's this season.

:facepalm:

They took a rookie QB high after gutting their offensive weapons and then further degraded their O line.

Brilliant...

Coleman, Peppers, Garrett, Kirksey, Ogbah, Shelton, Njoku, Biotnio

You guys can laugh and facepalm all you want, but the Browns are going to be good if they continue to add talent like this, and they will.

None of those guys has proven anything

All depends on Kizer. I loved what they did this year, but goddamn did they **** up last year.

Think of how good would they be if they just kept Mitchell Schwartz and drafted Carson Wentz instead of trading for a speed receiver?

Give me the best QB since Luck.

Body balance and agility/footwork are most important at C and T.

At G you can have a slow-footed mauler who's only job is to march forward and muscle a guy away.

There's enough NFL tape on this guy to know he plays too high, doesn't anchor well, and has $3it footwork. At G he's got a former OL in Reid to coach him up and only ask him to go hunt.

On a ton of our misdirection running plays we use zone blocking and he'd be attacking the defender at an angle instead of marching backwards and trying to hold ground (which he's clearly terrible at.)

Jameis Winston wasn't available last year

:p

Partially gutting your OL and starting a rookie QB behind the new line is rarely a good idea.

Combine that with almost 0 talent at HB and WR...

Two years in a row they traded out of a top 15 pick.

And they hit their cap minimum because they traded for osweiler so they can absorb his ridiculous contract in order to hit the cap floor.

Again, nothing wrong with stockpiling picks and giving away veterans in a rebuild. The strategy isn't wrong. I just wonder if there's some arrogance in constantly trading out of high first round picks and believing your entire roster should be built in the later rounds. Especially at the qb position.

And depodesta is a moneyball guy. Its fair to ask if he's trying to prove that he can win on value picks. Maybe he can. But there's clearly an agenda.

This is some more stupid crap. The sig I made for you fits you perfectly. Do you just try to be wrong constantly? Seriously. Ehinger won the starting guard position as a rookie. He needed to bulk up, but still showed enough to win the job immediately and you think he won't be on the team next year?? That is beyond dumb.

"Moneyball" doesn't and can't exist in the NFL.

What Podesta and Sashi Brown are doing is the wave of the now.

Jon Robinson, the Titans GM, is doing the same exact thing: Stockpiling picks to use as ammo for the draft's most talented players each year, then move those picks forward if your "guy" isn't available at the slot.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised it took this long for "tanking" and trading picks to hit the NFL, but then again, it's run by a bunch of old farts.

Ehinger was a clear upgrade over what we had at the time.

Erving is a guy who's upside is far more than that of Ehinger (should he actually stay healthy and stay at G) and we gave up nothing for him.

At worst we added depth to an area of our squad that had almost none (O line.)

It's a smart deal and our Doogie Howser GM is looking pretty good right now...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Terms: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Lions?src=hash">#Lions</a> trade guard Laken Tomlinson to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/49ers?src=hash">#49ers</a> for a 5th rounder in 2019, sources tell <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo">@MikeGarafolo</a> and me.</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/903291582828380160">August 31, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Is it me....or is there just a huge amount of trades happening this season? Maybe because the cut down has been changed now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tomlinson trade to the 49ers makes 12 deals this month, the most trades in the month of August in the last decade</p>&mdash; Evan Kaplan (@EpKap) <a href="https://twitter.com/EpKap/status/903293842140655616">August 31, 2017</a></blockquote>
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I think you're right about the trades. I think the single cut down has forced many GMs into hedging their bets on who would be available on waivers.

ROFLsilly me

NFL GM's are simply realizing that late round picks have far less value and far less of a chance to make the 53, than former 1st round players that have higher ceilings but haven't found early success.

A "change of scenery" is often needed for these types of guys.

And teams that lose tend to get higher picks that tend to play for teams that lose that tend to change coaching staffs and then players aren't a fit.

Only one cut down day as well, guys are flipping picks for guys they want instead of chancing wavers

How many first round busts turn it around elsewhere?

I know these guys didn't... Brandon Weeden, Jonathan Cooper, Jason Smith, A.J. Jenkins, Jonathan Baldwin, Aaron Maybin, Josh Freeman, Amobi Okoye, Brady Quinn, Jarvis Moss, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, etc.

The change in the cut down process is probably responsible for some of these trades. There's a possibility for a crazy amount of waver wire activity on Saturday, with something like a thousand players being released, and I think teams are making trades ahead of the deadline this year that may not have happened in the past.

BINGO !!!

As competitive as Veach has been you wonder how many players on other teams he is still salivating for to pick up that will probably be cut.

He already said that they won't be very active this season.

We're so far down the waiver order, we don't really have a choice but to be aggressive if we like a player.

The thing I like is that we're trading for young former first-rounders. Players we were high on back when we scouted them that we must think we can coach up.

and Mariota. IMHO both Winston and Mariota have progressed past Newton in the actual intellectual knowledge and study of the game and you will see it very poignantly this year. Cam has gotten by on athletic ability and big arm but he still is not a student of the game and Wade Phillips exposed his arse big time that he cannot read NFL defenses nor cadence bluff them out to see where the real pressure is coming from.

Coleman Ogbah Shon Coleman Schobert are all starters and Peppers came out of that trade as will the 18 first rounder from Houston. The Browns murdered Philly on that trade.


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Degrading the oline? They drafted Rod Johnson, have the best back up olineman in football in John Greco and added Kevin Zeitler and JC Tretter. The Browns by PFF are said to have a top 3 oline. Losing Mack hurt but he didn't want to stay.


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I hope he gets to play tonight.

I have only seen the plays in this thread and the dude definitely brings pure joy.

The 10 players I listed as probable starters coming from the 16/17 drafts all look like really damn good football players. Ogbah looked like he's going to become something pretty good especially. Kindred looked good when he finally started. I loved Schobert coming out, I think he's going to give them a physical player at ILB. I don't question Sashi Brown just yet, except passing on Wentz, but if it works out who cares? He's definitely put some talented young players on the field. It'll take a couple more years for that core to mature, but it's got a good start.