We also can’t forget that you’re getting 2 guys in Niang and Gay that we’re basically red shirted. Hell, you can throw Baker in there too.

We already have legitimate 1st round talent that we got value on last year to contribute in 2021 and beyond.

We’re going to get better and we’re not losing anything significant.

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It’s been five years since Jones. A lot of those dudes aren’t even here anymore.

I’m not bitching at all. They’ve drafted really well and it looks like there are some potential elite players in the past few years developing nicely.

Just that we need to realize also how hard it is drafting where we are, especially this year with covid and such.

You have to give guys like Sneed, CEH, Thornhill, Gay, Niang etc. some time to become those guys.

Kelce, Jones, Hill etc. weren’t those guys right away either.

I don’t disagree with that but to get where we wanna go next year, I don’t think we need that 1st rounder to be a pro bowler. Just be a solid starter, be available.

We got back to the Super Bowl with a bottom 10 OL, slow footed LBs eating up all the snaps, and a 4-man pass rush that was inconsistent at best. And there is reason to believe all of those things will be better next year while not suffering a drop off anywhere else.

Simply put, injury is the only thing stopping the Chiefs from accomplishing their goals in 2021. Unfortunately, they did stop them this year in conjunction with the OL opt outs.

Umm there’s 1 cornerstone player they drafted since Jones...

All the more reason not to zero in on one or two positions and say "damn the torpedos".

Niang is the wild card in that if he can only tackle he’s really cheap and could be really good. We need a lot of those

Oh he can play T.

It’s just a matter of health.

I remember reading about how Niang played really well against Nick Bosa and Chase Young in college.

I think the talent is there. Kid has a golden opportunity opening up if he wants to take it.

I’d do my best to fill holes before the draft so I could just open those picks up to take the good football players that fall because other teams are stupid.

Danna and okafor are fine players but I think you need a young talent at DE. That’s where I’d rather look for at 31

chiefs need a #2 WR, OL, DE and then just find depth

They probably need to try to get Taco back and fill that hole somewhat just in case the draft doesn’t work out. He showed some serious promise rushing the passer.

Eh, if he’s cheap. Otherwise look elsewhere

I'm just so freaking sick of guys who can't suit up because they're hurt all the time.

I'd rather not bring back Okafor or Taco at all and look elsewhere.

Well he’s gonna be cheap I assume.

And it’s not sign Taco and everything is fine. It’s sign him and continue to look for more at the position afterward. Especially a long term, 3-down player. You can’t have enough of those guys.

I don’t mind Taco because his injury was just bad luck, not like a constant muscle strain or anything that predicts more injury in the future.

He only came to KC because he couldn't stay healthy in Dallas or Miami. 3 teams in 4 years and hasn't played more than 11 games since his rookie season.

I’d still bring back Taco on a cheap one year deal. It wouldn’t stop me from drafting a DE if one falls or there is one they like.

Really? I'm not sure I can make that call on Mahomes yet. Let's wait and see.

Draft Phillips, Oweh, Ossai, or Ojulari and re-sign Taco.

The pass rush would be so much better.

It’s kind of the issue with luck I’m regards to injuries. Shit just happens. The Bucs got healthy at the right time and the chiefs ol just couldn’t especially with fisher goin down.

If taco is cheap and a rotational guy, sure. But you need to start looking long term

I'm not sure Ojulari is a good scheme fit. Phillips has the concussion issues.

Oweh I would take for sure.

I think better value might be there at the end of the 2nd, with OT being there in the 1st but we'll see.

I really want them to grab two DEs in this draft. We should be looking for Clark’s replacement in the future.

If Reid doesn't implement a REAL running game then we can forget winning championships moving foward...because teams are simply gonna drop back and dare th3 chiefs to run...it's that simple.

Sorry, but with some guys shit doesn't just happen.

I pounded the table on Dee Ford for a year and people actually got mad at me. He's played in 12 games since signing with San Fran. Some guys just aren't cut out for it physically.

Taco Charlton played 16 games his first season, then 11, 10, and now 7.

There's no way I bring him back, at any salary. He's not dependable.

That's the nice thing about dropping 3 safeties 20 yards deep, you don't need a "real" running game to succeed.

If teams start doing it next year, and they won't, CEH will ****ing gash them.

I think the Chiefs are going to have a situational running game, similar to what they did to Buffalo in week 6.

But a "real" running game, ala Denver or Tennessee that actually runs the ball 25+ times a game consistently? No, it's never going to happen.

Buffalo did that.

The Chiefs protected Mahomes well and he also got the ball out quick to attack that style of defense appropriately.

The Buccaneers didn’t reveal some grand scheme to the league Sunday. Teams have done it before. We were just outmanned and for some reason, the play calling did not seem to be on point either in terms of how to attack that style of defense.

It happened with Kareem and we haven't had anyone on his level since he left.

I agree. I wasn’t really saying any of that in regards to taco.

Injuries just happen though. It’s all about luck it seems

Ojulari is a guy that Spags would have to get creative with, but I think it could be done.

Phillips had concussion issues, but it’s been some time since he did, and he had no issues this past year. You don’t get a top 15 talent like him at 31 if he doesn’t come with some risk. Hell, some people still have him in the top 15.

Oweh and Ossai are probably the cleanest, but Oweh is still very raw.

The thing about all of these guys is they all have the potential to be the best pass rusher in this class.

That’s the kind of value I’m looking at with pick 31.

There are some guys in the 2nd, but not any with that kind of upside.

The problem I have is some folks seem resistent to running the damn ball. If Pat has a run game that can carry the offense when the passing game stalls then it would make our offense unstoppable...but some folks are not prepared to evolve smh.

It didn't happen with Kareem thought, that's just selective memory.

In 2017, when Kareem led the league in rushing, he had 3 games with 9 or less carries. He had another 6 with 18 or less. That's more than half the season when he didn't even notch 20 carries per game.

He had just as many games with 10 or less carries as he did with 25 or more.

Reid doesn't commit to the running game, even with Kareem. It just seemed like he did because when Kareem was on, he was really on.

There’s no need to evolve into an offense that doesn’t lean heavily on Mahomes/Hill/Kelce. That’s what makes this offense an all-time special group.

You have Clyde, and the OL is going to obviously be better. The run game will be better. But we don’t need to try and turn this into a 50/50 ish run/pass team. That plays into the opposition’s hand.

We just need our offensive line not to fall apart by season’s end. Truly.

When guys get hurt every season, it's not bad luck.

It's genetics, physiology, or some combination of the two. Some bodies just aren't made for football.

Yep.

You're talking about 18 carries? How often has Ceh had that or more this season? Three or four times? The bottom line is we need a running game that can scare the opposition and be productive!!..if we had one on sunday maybe things would have been different.

Whether it was Hunt or Damien Williams, our rushing yards from running backs get inflated by long runs. Look at last years super bowl, Williams had 17 carries for 104 yards, but 38. of those yards came on his TD run to ice the game. Which was awesome, but in reality he ran the ball 16 times for 66 yards during the bulk of the game. Hunt put up a ton of yards late in games too. Now I'm not bitching, but the stats don't tell the entire story.

Frankly, I find it odd that so many here were excited about drafting a running back in the first round last year based on how we know Reid uses backs. I think CEH is great, and I just hope we use this kids talent more next season.

We were excited because of his short area agility and his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

Aaron Rodgers had a run game, Tom Brady had a run game, Drew Brees had a run game, Russell Wilson had run game...but let's just rely on Pat 90 percent of the time? I simply don't agree...there's a reason why the guy is banged up right now smh.

And still, value wise, meh.

3 games with less than 10, 2 games with 25 or more.

CEH averaged 14 carries per game.

In 2017, Hunt averaged 17 carries per game.

Not all that different, sorry.

Start writing those letters.

I don't think any of us disagree with you that it would be nice to have more of a running game. But this is Andy Reid, he's been doing this for 20+ years. It isn't going to change.

I’m not going to cry about value taking a RB at the end of the 1st when they got 1st round talent at T and LB, then got incredible value with Sneed, Wharton, and Danna.

Hell, they got 1st round caliber talent at picks 2-4. You’re more than willing to take your choice of a RB at 32 when you follow it up with that.

Just wait till next year. CEH will show you his “value” then.

But think where they’d be if they added a valuable commodity at 32 to those other guys!

CEH can do all he wants. He’s a really good solid running back. It was still a waste of resource to take one in the first

So who would you have taken?

Hindsight and all, probably Higgins.

Then let Watkins walk and roll that money into this year

Yea a total “waste” :rolleyes:

What a stupid thing to say. The only way it’s a “waste” is if the player is a bust.


Funny how you go from bitching that you can’t get a contribution from late 1st round guys, then the Chiefs take an immediate impact player at a position where’re you’re more likely to get immediate impact and you bitch about that.

A first round pick is very valuable to you guys. I’d trade them all away but everyone tells me that’s dumb so I’d get fired

But from a value standpoint using a first on a rb is just not gonna max the value of the pick

I bitch about it because they’ve shown over and over to be able to get good production from mid rounders or Udfa at running back.

I never said you can’t get contribution from late first rounders. I said it’s tough to get immediate cornerstone type guys there because that’s just the way the draft goes

I'd like to think there's a guard or two out there that want a ring. I don't know who that is, but I hope they exist.

Yep.

All 1st round picks aren’t equal. We’re talking about the 32nd pick. I wouldn’t draft a RB top 15, but after that when the talent drops off I’m not going to write it off.

No but Kareem's value is also increased by his ability in the passing game. Which further helped cause matchup problems.

They obviously felt that CEH was a bit more rare than you’re giving him credit for and I agree.

He’s unique in that he can run between the tackles, but he’s also really ****ing good in the passing game. He’s just scratching the surface in the passing game and that’s where his value will come to fruition.

I do see where guys are coming from in regards to wanting a DE. Raiders games made me realize that pretty quick.

It just sucks that both Its likely the only thing keeping this defense from being a top unit.

Also, this idea that you can find great back so easily later is kind of bullshit.

McCaffrey, Elliot, Cook, Barkley, Kamara, Chubb, Hunt, etc.

The leagues best backs are usually taken fairly early.

I remember when everybody used to point to Phillip Lindsay as the kind of guy you can get late. He hasn’t done much since his rookie year though.

I agree, like most blue chip players you have to get them early. That’s the problem. They aren’t worth that from the value they add over guys taken later.

The cowboys are the prime example. They took zeke and the lb from notre dame with the messed up knee. The player selected after those picks by the teams behind them were Ramsey and Henry.

This past season you had an Udfa and 3rd rounder up there with the most yardage.

They’re just so easy to find, good ones that is. Not necessarily great ones, but I don’t think a great one is necessary.

You’re comparing taking a RB in the top 5 to 32 though.

I’ve already said I understand the rule in the top 15-20. After that, I don’t think it’s nearly the same.

If you’re going to take a RB, the time to do it and maximize value is when you’re ready to win now.

The Cowboys, Panthers, Giants etc. wasted having those guys on their rookie deals.

It won’t be the same for us, another reason why it’s not remotely comparable.

Spot on! Look at the best back/s from every division and look where they were picked. If you want to be elite at that position you better make an investment in the draft.

AFC West: Josh Jacobs - 1st round
AFC North: Nick Chubb - 2nd round (pick 35)
AFC South: Derrick Henry - 2nd round
AFC East: Sony Michel - 1st round. Yes, I understand that entire division has shit for RBs.

NFC West: For my money right now Cam Akers - 2nd round
NFC North: Dalvin Cook - 2nd round
NFC South: Christian McCaffrey - 1st round; Alvin Kamara - 3rd round
NFC East: Saquon Barkley - 1st round;
Ezekiel Elliot - 1st round

You just listed the list of the beat running backs, the majority of which were picked outside the first round.

It’s comparable from a value standpoint. Wouldn’t you say there’s more value in say having a legit #2 wr va taking a rb in the first?

There’s really no point in arguing it again here. It’s a sunk cost now so you just go with it forward.

Yea because I was making a point about the leagues best RB’s not being mid-late picks or UDFA’s.

And no, comparing a top 5 pick to the 32nd is not comparable from a value standpoint. Not even close.

There was no sure fire legit #2 WR. Before you say Higgins again, this team isn’t drafting a big WR with no speed. That doesn’t fit the profile at all.

Did they fix it with strings of meat from you labia?

A guy that could be a good fit here would be AJ Bouye. He can play man or zone and might get overlooked after a year where he was hurt and then a meh year in Denver.

I would also be open to keeping Breeland at the right price but Bouye is an upgrade and might be a value play.

Also going to be suspended for a few games.

Bouye is gonna be pricey. Not in our range for sure.

Maybe. A guy that I think might get less than what people expect.

A lot of those veteran guys who aren’t at the top of the game anymore will go cheaper than normal. Not enough money to throw around.

I sure hope Frank Clark will consider restructuring his deal.

He got paid big bucks to sack the QB and cause disruption in the backfield.

He's not meeting his end of the bargain....not at his salary. Only Mack and Donald have a bigger cap hit as far as defensive players are concerned.

The only problem with that is that it pushes the issue down the road.

If they redo his deal, he's here even longer. They COULD cut him after 2021 but then again, they'd have to take his cap hit for the year and it's $25M.

Yeah, I've been thinking our best play might be to hold onto some space and go bargain hunting after the draft.

Every off season we talk about guys restructuring their deals and rarely does it happen. The thread in RR about being unable to face reality is pretty spot on.

The good thing about Bart Vach is that he's aggressive. If we need to do something, then it will be done.

I have no doubt Veach will find some guys who can contribute for the low and hit on some draft picks.

Very true. It all comes down to what he wants.

We don't have to move heaven and earth to find Shields, Roaf, Waters, but there's a difference between saying 'tires don't win speed records' and driving a Chiron on bias-ply polyglas.

I'd love TY Hilton on a 1-year rental. Had a down year last year.

Probably won't happen, but maybe a small chance.

Buy off some refs.