Kinda tells me that you can make a highlight film tell any story you want it to tell.

Rose doesn't play like Chenal, man. At all. Chenal is SUBSTANTIALLY more physical. Rose can be a better version of Niemann, though. Pretty athletic kid who's comfortable in space and in delayed blitz situations.

But he's not the kind of downhill killer and aggressive run defender that Chenal is at all. In most ways he's pretty much the exact opposite (but complementary) player to Chenal.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Leo Chenal was drafted with pick 103 of round 3 in the 2022 draft class. He scored a 9.99 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 3 out of 2419 LB from 1987 to 2022. <a href="https://t.co/unnXwkfpiT">https://t.co/unnXwkfpiT</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAS?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RAS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://t.co/YdwWEkOnmR">pic.twitter.com/YdwWEkOnmR</a></p>&mdash; Kent Lee Platte (@MathBomb) <a href="https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1520243525274988544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't know much about RAS score and if it's a good indicator of how a player will perform or how their play translates to the NFL, but 3rd out of 2419?!? Yes, please I'll take some of that

I’m not even sure he can be better than Niemann. Not saying he can’t hang on and make the 53, but I just see nothing promising in there. Right place right time made the tackle, occasionally for a loss and/or a turnover. Like just about any other senior starting LB for a middle of the pack power 5 school

It would need to be a consistency thing.

Niemann on his best plays would put his athleticism to good use and be a pretty good nickel LBer. But then there were his OTHER plays....

I don't know how you project consistency at the next level. If Rose can go out there and give you more of Niemann's good snaps while at least not being quite as bad as Niemann was on his bad snaps, you're in pretty decent shape there.

Mike Rose was the Big 12 defensive POY in 2020. He was a preseason 1st team All American on pretty much every media outlet but played through serious injuries the entire year in 2021. He played inside backer early and transitioned over to more of a coverage linebacker the latter part of his college career. He may not play with the downhill reckless abandon of Chenal but the kid is a fricken player. Please don't even compare him to Niemann. Rose is a helluva lot better player. I promise you both Hawkeye and Cyclone fans in here will agree on that.

RAS doesn’t indicate much about a player’s success in the NFL.

It’s really just an easy way to compile several measurables into one score.

If you’re big and athletic, you’ll score high. What this says about Chenal is that he is one big, strong, athletic mofo. The tape looks good too.

Hard to imagine him being a bad pro, but this doesn’t guarantee he’s an All Pro.

Who knows though? He has the ability, so the sky is the limit.

This kid is gonna be a mauler. He’ll put on another ten pounds and with his athleticism and attitude will be a dangerous combination. The only issue I see is him leaning too much on his physical attributes to have success. He was a man playing amongst boys in college. He’ll need to clean up his reads and technique in the pros. He’s in the perfect spot to learn, though, and Spags isn’t going to throw him into the fire right away.

Thanks for the explanation! I also enjoy that I called it a RAS score... like ATM machine or something...

Depends on position. Linebacker is one position where RAS probably matters.

I can't wait for Leo and Karlaftis to end Russell Wilson and Tom Brady career put them both in retirement. Teams are going have their hands full with those too not to mention Bolton and Gay but I don't see them blitzing a lot but I think Leo sure will. Spags has got to be thinking sachems with Leo in mind. I bet he has wet dreams of plays with Leo sacking the quarterback or destroying a play.

It was brought up earlier, but our ability to defend the running QB has just improved dramatically. Lamar, Allen, Herbert and maybe even Russ will still get theirs against this defense, but not like before. And they'll definitely think twice after doing it once.

And that's not even bringing up how our short yardage and goal-to-go defense is now significantly better, and even THAT goes without talking about the physicality we now have with our defensive backs. I'm pumped to see our defense elevate a few levels on the physical front.

Our defense hasn't done well in short yardage situation in more than a decade. We've been soft at the line for way too long.

Yes that is a very good point those ****ing running quarterbacks are going get 'Jacked up' They do it a couple times and they won't be running or maybe not walk after the hits. Let Bryan Cook hit one or Leo those guys are going be hurting from scrambling. I don't think Russell Wilson is that fast I think he is on the down cline. He will start out the season looking fresh but as the season goes and that cold mountain air he gets hit he will be hit a lot he will wear down after mid season.

I really want to get a hat on Josh Allen and Joe Burrow make them think about when to run and they will quickly try get out of bounds.

I've seen it referred to as a 'density adjusted' athleticism metric.

So yeah, be tall and/or heavy and RAS loves you.

It's really stupid, though.

I remember having a bizzarely effective short yardage defense for the first couple years of Sutton, particularly in 2015.

Then it all kinda went kablooey when Hali got old, Houston got injured and struggled in his recovery, and... well, you know the rest.

I don't know how we will do in short yardage but i think this defense is going force a lot more turnovers by hitting the ball carrier hard and forcing fumbles and we got DBs that will be flying to get interceptions. The big thing I want is more 3 and outs and not let teams drive on them keeping the ball control and allow big plays on third and 20 teams get a first down by scrambling or PI or something bogus happens. More 3 and outs and more turnovers that will make this defense fierce.

Also getting penetration from the interior line I know Jones can get through but he can't be the only one we really need find a DT somehow that can help Jones out.

I don't think it's the be-all-end-all, but I don't think it's stupid, either.

If there's a WR that's 6'3" 215, runs a 4.3 and has elite explosion measurements (10 yd splits, etc.) then isn't he more likely to be harder to deal with than a 5'9" 180 lb. guy with the same speed and quickness?

I mean, the bigger, faster, stronger guy wins, all things being equal. And that's the point of RAS.

Now, it's not the end word; an individuals peculiarities all matter too-their work ethic, their intelligence, etc.

But saying it's dumb is off base, in my opinion.

Don't talk to me about RAS, okay?

I'm just fine with the good old combine measurables of height, weight, speed, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, bench, broad jump and vertical.

Just put all those together and give me a composite number to compare between guys at the same position. You can keep this RAS bullshit out of it.

um, okay, but...I mean, that's basically what it is.

That’s definitely the joke haha

The problem is when that that 6'3'' guy has WORSE explosion measurements than a 5'11'' guy.

RAS is going to favor the 6'3'' guy and by a fair amount. Moreover, it calls itself an 'athletic' score but in the end its emphasis on height and weight actually diminishes the athletic side of the equation.

Someone can have better athletic skills across the board but the taller and/or heavier guy will have the better 'Athletic Score' despite clearly being less athletic. He's just taller.

I've simply never seen it used by anyone in a reasonably productive manner. It's just 'HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THE RAS ON THIS GUY!' as though it's dispositive of his athleticism. A lot of the time it isn't - it's determined more by his height than his athleticism.

Wanna call it a 'height adjusted composite index' or something like that and I'll be less down on it. Or if people would use it more like they do PFF where they give it an extremely healthy degree of skepticism but acknowledge that it may be useful in small doses or in close questions or with substantial context added - okay.

But all these Tweets were 'oh my god, this guy taken in the 7th round has a better RAS than Luke Keuchly!' -- for ****'s sake, folks. Shouldn't that make you question the metric?

Example:

Normal Dude - 6', 195 lbs. Solid WR build.

40 time: 4.3
Twenty yard split: 2.5 seconds
10 yrd split: 1.5
Bench: 15
Vert: 38 inches
Broad: 10'4 inches
Shuttle: 4 flat
3-cone: 6.7 seconds

RAS: 9.87

Tall guy: 6'4'', 220 lbs

40: 4.4
20 yard split: 2.6
10 yard: 1.55
Bench: 18
Vert: 36
Broad: 10'1''
Shuttle: 4.1
3-cone: 6.8

RAS: 9.93


Normal guy, with perfectly reasonable WR size, has a lower RAS than Tall Guy despite being measurably a better athlete in every single way.

It isn't a measure of athleticism as much as it's a measure of height. It's used foolishly and it's named even moreso.

I've never looked at RAS at all, but in your example is it about height or weight? I think it's legitimately more impressive when a guy who weighs 25 pounds more has similar athletic performance.

Regarding Chenal, I think we're going to end up blitzing him and I think he's going to murder some people.

Nah.

There was a game where the defense face raped the seahawks on like 4 4th and shorts then Jamaal went wild to put them away. I believe it was the year after they wont the SB.

Uh... this is exactly when it's useful.

Why?

Shorter guy is clearly more athletic. The other guy is just taller.

Did you need a 'RAS' to point that out for you? I feel like a tape measure would have sufficed.

The RAS says the shorter guy is a lesser athlete - he isn't. He's a slightly shorter one and that's all.

Sorry I was just joking to make a point that RAS isn't a new invention. It is simply an aggregate tool for the ht/wt/speed/strength/agility/explosion that have always been measured and valued (or overvalued). Tape matters more, and always has.

For the same reason Calvin Austin isn't going to be better than Calvin Johnson.

I mean, imagine if Player 1 had wear a 25lb vest and go through testing. Their athleticism is relative to their size, and vice versa. It's just a tool, it doesn't mean everything.

But your size absolutely matters. Otherwise the league would be populated with DeAnthony Thomas clones.

A little bit of weight but substantially more to do with height.

Take 'Tall Guy' there and make him 6'1'', 200 lbs and his RAS drops to 9.72. Make him a 6'4'' stringbean at 195 and he's 9.85, he's at 9.92 at 215.

So messing with weight can swing you maybe .05 points here and there, but height can give you .2 or more of a swing.

Like I said, RAS is more concerned with height than it is athleticism.

It's a stupid metric. It's an ESPECIALLY stupid metric for LBs.

Then don't call it an 'athletic score'.

And again, we're not talking Calvin Johnson vs. Calvin Austin here. I have one guy that's 6'4'' and a clearly inferior athlete to a guy who's 6'1'' and a very good physical specimen in his own right.

It uses height as a damn multiplier of all the other athletic indices and then people act like it's some composite breakdown of athleticism. That's just silly. It's not. Better athletes get lower scores than taller ones all the time.

I pointed this out in another thread, but the RAS for Pickens was higher than Moore but only proved that Pickens was taller. Moore was superior in every other metric that was listed.

I’m sure someone can find that comparison.

It's a fair point - I'd like to see more position-specific grades. I think your example fails a little, because the scores are so similar that the height and weight make a HUGE impact.

Oh, you've got the formula (or a calculator)? Link? I'd like to check it out.

Yup.

I only had to see people using RAS for like 3 days to start to question it's value and then after another week or so I recognized how thoroughly worthless it was because examples like that just kept popping up.

It's FAR more worthless than PFF and other stuff that people love ragging on around here.

It's just the cool new shorthand from a website that looks like it was built in 1996.

Oh snap... DJ from the Skyy Moore thread has been betrayed by DJ from the Chenal thread!

Damn you, 'Nut! - ****ing Judas!

LMAO

Are the scores really that similar?

I mean a full 10th on the 40 and the 20 yard split. 5 Hundredths isn't nothing on a 10 yard split by any stretch. A couple inches on the vert, 3 inches on hte broad, another 10th on the shuttle and 3-cone times.

I mean those are fairly significant differences in the real world.

And the combined effect of them paints a picture of one guy being a fairly obviously better athlete. Straight line, burst, lateral agility, 'explosion' measured by the leaping scores - across the board 'normal guy' wins by figures that are relatively robust.

RAS doesn’t account for how much of that weight is just extra dick fat. Worthless metric. Jones’s skewed horribly.

Love this pick.

Give me guys who love to play football & love to hit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess I'm seeing it from the point of f=ma. if force equals mass x acceleration, then the size of the player should be as important as the speed. Otherwise, we're ignoring the difference in mass as a crucial element to the effectiveness of that athleticism in a game predicated on two bodies running into each other.

however, your point about height being more of a needle-mover than weight is still valid, at least in certain positions.

I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH

I can't even pick a favorite draft pick player because they all seem like they are going kick ass for us and most starting right away. All of them seam to have a mind set lets **** people up and move on to the next game. I'm down with that.

From Bob McGinn:

I sure hope you are right. But our LBs are only as good as the DL plays keeping things clean so our boys can make plays.;)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So... Leo Chenal. <a href="https://t.co/MDzm9xqxwV">pic.twitter.com/MDzm9xqxwV</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1522350943873949697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't care what these scouts or analyst say. The dude just threw the top interior lineman in the draft to the side like it was nothing.

He didn't throw him he shed him. There is a big difference. I get what you are saying though which shows his strength to not only do this but also keeping his eyes in the backfield to always know where the ball is to attack. Not everyone can do this.

That was the one possession I wanted most, well after best pass rusher available they are hard to get. I hope Bono Vinal has a plan to bring in a DT that can get the job done. I love all the draft picks just wish we had one more pick for a big boy to play DT.

In all honesty I was after a coverage LB if anything. That's the gap we have and I think where the value is at LB. BUT I still like the pick. If we get creative with how we blitz him and if he can develop into anything of a pass rusher at all, even if his coverage is useless he'll be a big help

You're right, Niemann will probably be a better NFL linebacker with his coverage skills...

Chenal vs Pacheco

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pacheco is very strong for his size and is an exceptional pass blocker, but that doesn&#39;t mean he won&#39;t still get thrown like a rag doll by Leo Chenal <a href="https://t.co/GFuRQu7RqC">pic.twitter.com/GFuRQu7RqC</a></p>&mdash; Rocky Magaña (@RockyMagana) <a href="https://twitter.com/RockyMagana/status/1521809361387110403?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I believe Chenal is our MLB of the future. He's smart and is very good at shedding blocks. Bolton and Gay's strengths are playing in space. Chenal looks like a rich man's James Lauranaitis, Rams all time leading tackler.

Players we drafted in recent drafts at least last couple years show no fear and will give no mercy. Even with rookie mistakes I believe this is a better defense than last year and teams won't like getting punched in the mouth but nothing they can do about it. Tenacious D

Bolton is our MLB going forward.

Gay is WLB

Leo is the SAM

Warranted, Chenal is a rookie. After this year I'd like to see how he looks at MLB. Whatever is best for the team.

I think the two highest ceiling guys in this draft are Chenal and Kinnard. Everyone else has solid player, but probably not all-pro vibes. Which is great. But I could see Chenal being a stud ILB like Luke Kuechly, and Kinnard could be an all-pro RT if he gets his weight and mind right.

Chenal is my favorite player and IMO, the only high ceiling player they drafted. Everyone else seems like high floor, low ceiling type players. I feel like I'm one of the few that aren't in love with their draft. I understood all their picks but I'd have gone a different way with most of them.

That being said, I don't think Chenal has the coverage skills to become a Luke Kuechly type LB. IF Spags plays him and puts him in a good position, he could have a Micah Parsons type effect. Just attack downhill with him. My fear is that Spags doesn't like rookies because his system is unnecessarily complicated and he won't see the field much.

Go back to Manhattan with that horrible take

He’s a ****ing idiot.

It is a terrible take but so are all the takes putting our entire draft class and half the UDFAs as all time greats.

We drafted at most 6 future hall of famers. At least 3 though.

Trying to stay realistic.

People tend to be overly optimistic sure but thinking that Leo is the only pick with a high ceiling is so dumb I'm tempted to think it's a troll post

Nobody is doing that.

On my phone someone please embed this


https://twitter.com/chiefs/status/15...vKz-H0nvKITw6A

Whoops is that Karlaftis the numbers get me

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That&#39;s a scary sight �� <a href="https://twitter.com/TheGK3?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@thegk3</a> <a href="https://t.co/InQb8GYR55">pic.twitter.com/InQb8GYR55</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1523429537085722626?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That’s Karlaftis.

This draft rivals the Steelers '73 draft! Four hall of famers for sure!😂

I'd wager most of our draft picks have a different take, but that's just me. And, FTR, I'm also glad Clark hired Veach instead of ---- nevermind.

Said he was told he'll be playing the SAM position

I've been trying to keep my optimism about the draft in check while we find out what we've really got. You're not helping.

hence the laugh emoji.

I'm optimistic we got 4 good starters here, and a couple of significant role players. That would be an EXCELLENT haul.

I'm not putting anyone in the hall of fame yet.

Get my hopes way up and then slam me back down again. You're toying with my emotions.

Will be weird seeing another white guy in #56 but actually seeking out contact

Just so we're all clear in this thread. Karlaftis is #56. Leo looks to be #49