This is my thinking. Will miss seeing Thuney.

It’s hard for me to trust Veach but he always seems to do the perfect stuff when we’re “rebuilding”.

Just protect Pat at all costs

Feels like a fair amount needs to go right for this to work out well. IF we get Stanley and he stays healthy (unlikely) that's a huge upgrade and, at least for a year, a positive short-term answer.

What seems sensible to me is the implicit move to prioritise OT over guard. I also think, realistically, we just have to use some in-house options on the IOL now, and see what we have with Kingsley and Nourzad. It also seems reasonable to assume this was the most realistic way to free up space to get Stanley.

What I like less is the suggestion the money saved on Thuney just gets ploughed back into extending Smith. Yes he's younger, but he's also nowhere near as good. The previous suggestion doing the rounds of extending Thuney and letting Smith walk seemed the preferable option, as I'd rather 3 more years of an ageing Thuney than Smith, tbh.

I still think, realistically, this was another bandaid year. Patching LT up with a vet like DJ or going younger and less experienced but cheaper, and still an upgrade, with someone like Jaylon Moore, but keeping Thuney next to them. I imagine Stanley would be a 1 year deal, 2 max anyway.

Probably not my preference, but I guess we'll see

I understand why they are trading him. But I kind feel bad that Thuney, a 4x champion and nothing but a winner his entire career and now he has to go play for the Bears. He doesn't know what losing is like

I firmly agree.

Hell, maybe Veach trades Smith yet, we have no idea. He might say **** it and spend money elsewhere.

I think if the strategy is to knock the IOL down to prioritise OTs, I'm pretty happy with the approach.

I'm honestly shocked that there are people willing to lose both Smith and Thuney in the same offseason after what just happened in the SB...

I don't understand this at all. All that needs to happen for this to "work out well" is Kingsley to be a cheap viable replacement.

Really have a head start b/c it was the same way after last season. Only coming off a Super Bowl victory, vs a blowout Super Bowl loss, tends to put things in a different petspective.

Safety maybe? Not saying that guards are like LTs, but it makes you wonder why their salaries have skyrocketed vs just drafting a replacement for them. Zero reason for teams to pay guards what they are paying them.

My heart says to get rid of all of these ****ers.

My mind knows that’s just not really possible and likely to make us worse overall.

I’m still annoyed, though. LV we had an excuse. Everyone on the OL was a backup and/or playing out of position. In LIX, that was only true for the left side of the line, while both the left and right got completely worked. There is no excuse for Trey and Jawaan to have played so poorly.

Nobody wants to hear this but a good amount of this was Mahomes. He put Jawaan in an impossible situation quite a few times

I would say the left side of his offensive line getting absolutely destroyed repeatedly was the bigger issue

Not that they were good, but the right side of the line wasn't what destroyed our entire gameplan and Mahomes confidence. It was the left side.

Your inability to ever hold your superstar favorite players accountable is hilarious.

Well, and we land Stanley and he stays healthy, surely? I mean, if we got a Jaylon Moore I think it could work out OK.

But LT had to be upgraded regardless. That's a separate issue. As long as Kingsley is solid, trading Thuney and getting cap space will work out well.

The ironic thing is the fans that were convinced we were going to lose 15 of 17 games this year, posted it, and knew we would lose each time are the same fans that won't give any fault or criticism of Mahomes.

I'm not able to decode the logic of it. Is it just being contrarian? The people convinced we were going to lose all year, with Mahomes, now are convinced it's not possible we lost because of Mahomes.

Anyone with an explanation I'm willing to give it time. I honestly don't understand.

Mahomes fleeing clean pockets makes him vulnerable and guys like Trey Smith get dinged with a pressure bc their guy hits Mahomes. Eagles saw this and had thier DE’s fake going up field then cut back inside when Mahomes stepped up.

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Mahomes needs to work on staying in the pocket. He was really good at this in 2022. But yes talent at LT and WR will help with this.

Happened with them on the field though.

I'm either way on it. I think keeping the right side together is fine, but if/until Pat gets back to being comfortable.....I don't think it matters if it's this group or you and I out there.

Yup. When the strength of your line is up the middle and both tackles suck yer' gonna' step up or scramble up the middle. They were patient, let the bull rush close in around him and just waited for him to get antsy. I think he had 4 sacks that were damned near identical. Constrict outside, be patient, come off your block and pinch the middle.

No kidding there.

Some think it’s like Madden. Just replace some 90 ovr guards with some 70s and it will be fine.

Reality doesn’t work that way.

By that logic, everybody can ****ing go, because they all ****ing sucked outside of Xavier Worthy.

By that logic Kelce is now a 45 TE that can't even chip block. He may have had the least impressive day of anyone on the field.

Getting Rice back will be a major addition. They’ll sign some value FA too, which will help. With how Worthy came on late, the offense would’ve really been something with Rice and Brown in there all year.

Obviously, LT would’ve hurt regardless.

If we had a healthy Brown and Rice all year someone would have been open, regularly, within 3 seconds. Pat wouldn't have had to eat the football.

Absolutely willing if the powers that be are comfortable with Nourzad or someone else at RG. Why not?

As DJ mentioned, we won Super Bowls with average to below-average players on the interior and good OTs.

Maybe those young guys would give you average to above-average. Even if it's not elite, you don't necessarily need elite. You just don't need Caliendo getting carried into his lap every down.

Yeah, but I think the question is whether you pay a wedge of money to Thuney or Smith. Probably the best argument is you may be freeing up a bit more tagging Smith and trading Thuney, than letting Smith walk and extending Thuney. Someone who's better on the cap implications than I can chime in.

The risk of losing Thuney is that IF you fail to improve appreciably at LT, or if you end up with a guy who's maybe a little better but not great (Dan Moore, Jaylon Moore etc) you may want to keep Thuney at LG. Because a Dan Moore and Kingsley situation could get pretty ugly.

I really, really hope Nourzad can be as good at guard as he looked at center for the Broncos game

The punter sucked shit the entire post-season as well. Doesn't mean I'm gonna extend him.

I just don't think Smith is a good investment at the cost and with the fact that he's not an ideal fit. Nor does he play a position that's all that difficult to field credibly. I see no reason at all to believe that some combination of Nourzad, Kingsley and Morris couldn't give me two credible OGs.

And that's where my analysis ends. How it relates to fixing OT (it doesn't) or how else I'd spend the money (I'm not sure; I'm not apprised as to all the alternatives available to me) are separate inquiries.

I just do not see a run-blocking RG being worth a market-setting contract. Full stop. It's not a position that matters enough and it's not a player that's ideally suited to this team.

The rest is a question for another day.

We gotta stop this shit.

We've agreed on damn near everything this off-season. I think Robinson is the most only spot where we disagree.

Been trying to have this conversation for 2 years now.

I'm told that I'm being 'ungrateful'.

Mahomes absolutely makes life hard on his OL. All of them.

I’ve been critical of Mahomes, but I’d replace every spot on the line before I’d replace Mahomes.

He needs to be better but we can’t have guys taking up like $70m in cap space combined getting wrecked by dudes like Bryce Huff, Jalyx Hunt and Brandon Graham fresh off a torn pec.


They still got worked far more than they should have.

What are we expecting the AAV for Smith’s deal to be? If it’s anything north of $15m you’re talking about sinking nearly $55m/year on average into the OL just from C-RT.

Crees may be worth it but Trey and Jawaan are probably not.

I wonder if Nourzad OSS looked at as an Allegretti type? 6th man and interior swing guy?

If we were able to snag a second rounder for Smith to get that extra capital, what would be the comfort level of an interior of…
LG- Kingsley
C - Humphrey
RG- Morris
We would have more money to throw at a guy like Ronnie Stanley or more draft assets to MAYBE trade for a Taylor Decker at LT? Maybe the Lions want to move Penei to LT and draft a young RT like Ersary?

LT- Stanley/Decker, Draft pick
LG- Kingsley, Hanson/Nourzad
C - Humphrey, Nourzad
RG- Morris, Nourzad
RT- Taylor, Driskol

Just thinking out loud. Not saying we should

While THAT is a fair point, we don't exactly have a solid LT (Fisher) and an elite RT (Schwartz) to make up for that interior deficiency at the moment. Feel like we'd be throwing Mahomes to the wolves and saying 'good luck, make something happen'

I'm all for the direction of that but it doesn't make sense till you have the tackle situation figured out first.

Smith got tagged for 23 million. His deal going to have to be average year of that amount. You can structure some of it to reduce the cap hit this year and next, if you sign him long term. But 15 is long gone.

Taylor's gone after this year, just like Thuney. I'd imagine the first year of Smith's deal will be a low hit, so these guys aren't going to cost that much this year, and even if they are it's just for one more year tops.

Regardless, Smith and Taylor didn't lose us that game any more than Mahomes or Kelce IMO. They played bad, but everybody did outside of ****ing Xavier Worthy. Maybe Creed played well too. I'm not going to let the left side being absolutely atrocious knock them any more than those other guys because of that.

At the end of the day, it was the SB, but it was one game. You don't build your entire team around that. The LT issue obviously has to be fixed after that disaster. Caliendo can never start another meaningful game ever again. Other than that, I think a lot of the SB reflection on these moves is an overreaction to one game at the end of the day.

That’s just the cost of the tag for one year. We can sign him to any amount he’ll agree to.

If we sign Trey to a deal with AAV north of $23m I will ****ing lose it.

Oh sir. I'm so very, very sorry.

If you think we're getting him for less than $21 million I just don't know what to tell ya. And honestly I do think the floor is that $23 million tag figure.

You can hate it but we're gonna do it.

Yep.

Veach will make the cap hit reasonable for this year, but the overall is what it is.

OMG.

I just checked the comps and you’re probably right. Landon Dickerson, who is about Trey’s age, just signed last year for $21m per.

I’m going to be sick..

Backloading doesn’t even make me feel better. That just means his cap hits later on will be higher.

Like, cool, yeah, he’ll only hit for like $10m year 1 and $18m year 2, but then it’ll be $30+m hits in year 4 and beyond.

**** this.

If we wanted him at $18-20 we might have been able to pull it off last offseason.

Which makes the tag and their sudden eagerness to shower him with riches all the more confounding.

Got me another convert, fellas!!!!

This is pretty contradictory to how you talked about the Eagles handling of the cap. How can you brush off their future cap concerns while overblowing the potential cap concerns of the Chiefs extending one guy in a vacuum? The Chiefs are in much better shape in regards to that.

Racking up scalps

If you’re referring to this post..

… it was pretty neutral commentary. In fact, when I said it was “interesting”, I was noting the possibility of it blowing up in their face.

The real issue as always, is how well we draft. I also made this comment:

This ended up being the difference in the Super Bowl this year, IMO, aside from our entire team’s lack of focus.. or whatever they had going on.

Imagine if FAU, Wanya and Kingsley were hits. It would have changed everything and were probably immortalized after we threepeat.

The biggest issue for me is that I have never felt like Trey Smith was a guy worth an extension. I’ve talked about it elsewhere if you want to search it up. He was a great pick and amazing value in the 6th, but I don’t think he’s ever been as good as most seem to think. He also obviously plays a pretty unimportant position overall.

I think the chances of him being worth $21+m per year are so insanely low, I just can’t convince myself keeping him is a good deal. Even with the rising cap, those $30m cap hits in 2028 are going to hurt like hell.

I'm with you mostly. I felt like he was a guy that was worth an extension but not a guy worth 21m+. When you have cap-rich teams hand out 17-18m contracts to lesser players though, it creates this.

It's like that feeling of hey, I can see giving an exceptional LB or an exceptional OG/C 16m AAV. Now that has to be 22m AAV in two off-seasons, and you're like WTF? That's just way too ****ing much money for those positions.

OG is literally the single easiest position on a team to get good players at.

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It took two weeks to type this up because his robot programming kept spell checking Mathaei to **** you guys for sending me to Chicago.

Guys, the cap jumped, and is expected to jump again each year.

I think some of you are looking at things through an outdated lens.

The last line must be a QB attitude adjustment technique

The big question for me is, does Trey continue to improve as a player? Lots of OL players seem to improve past the 4 year mark, if he gets even a little better this is probably going to be a very good re-signing.

If he doesn't, it's going to be an overpay but not a crazy one.

Problem is Trey is not improving. He took a step backwards last season...But you're right if he does.