Can someone explain why the better plan isn't just to move on and find somewhere else to fortify your group? I get that it wouldn't be easy, with a baby and a one legged man. But the remaining members are basically hardened killers at this point. I realize you'd lose the dramatic aspect, but they haven't convinced me why the prison is a place you just can't leave. The fencing and the high lookouts are obviously a plus, but it's such a big place to try to secure.....

I thought the scene was intense, and well acted.

The Maggie/Glen thing seemed way out of place.

Well in the comics they do move on, but not really by choice.

Can you put the reason the leave in the comic into a spoiler?

I don't think they did a good job of developing the psychological and emotional damage that occurred between Glen/Maggie as a result of the Woodbury experience. The scene would have had a lot more power if they'd really put a significant amount of angst and trauma into the relationship. As it was, it just seemed like a gratuitous sex scene.

You've got part of that wrong.

I miss Rick's badassness. He's getting weak.

Woah. I totally disagree. He went in there, pretended like he was considering the Governor's offer, then came out of the meeting and prepared his people for war, basically doing the exact same thing the governor did.

He's using fear to manipulate his group and overcome their weaknesses. To me, he's getting more cynical and pragmatic, not weaker.

Finally caught up on this half of the season, watched 5 episodes last night. I expected them to be bad seeing the reactions in this thread, but I liked em all. The episode with crazy Morgan was I thought one of the best of the whole series. Funny how that works, they stop trying to juggle 200 characters and focus on 3 or 4 and look what happens. And I think that episode's going to be foreshadowing for a lot. Morgan didn't shoot his wife and his son died. An episode a week or two ago Andrea didn't stab the governor. This week didn't follow Merle's advice and attack him at the meeting. That's going to come back and bite them (probably literally). Like Morgan said, 'don't ever say sorry'.

And yeah, can we trade crazy Morgan for Andrea? Please?

The governor doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me - I mean, he says he could have killed them all when he attacked the prison. And now he wants to meet them...so he can kill them all. Okay, that makes sense. Uhh, not at all. But I like David Morrissey's performance so much that at the same time I don't really care that the actions of his character make no sense.

He wasn't pretending to consider the offer. He is considering it. That's why he told Hershel. He straight up said he wanted Hershel to talk him out of it. He said he didn't tell the group because he wanted them frightened enough that they'd be okay with giving up Michonne.

At least that's how I interpreted it.

Me too.

I interpreted it as he wants the group frightened enough that they'll be ready to fight, kill, and go to war.

I felt he didn't tell them because he didn't want them to all jump on the possibility and mob mentality toss Michonne out as the easy way out (which I think they'd do, because none of them are close to her). He doesn't want them to see an option besides fighting because he wants them to have their backs against the wall.

And you're right that he is considering it... alone... without any sort of democratic vote or desire for feedback from the group (other than saying he wants Hershel to talk him out of it). I see him as the isolated leader, assuming the burden of leadership which sometimes means dishonestly manipulating your followers for their own good.

Rick was clear on why he didn't tell the group. The previous episode, which ended with Carl telling Rick she was "one of us" was a setup to 1) humanize the Michonne character and 2) give a reason why the group wouldn't immediately turn on her. That was all leading to the conflict with Rick at the end last night. The most poignant question was when he asked Hershel if he'd give up his daughters for Michonne. That showed exactly where his thinking lies.

The other facet of the conflict is whether or not he believes the Governor will hold up his end of the bargain. We the audience know he will not, but Rick doesn't, although he suspects it. I think if he doesn't turn over Michonne, that's why. Because he doesn't trust the Governor. Not out of loyalty to her.

Which is actually something else established in the crazy Morgan episode. We know what kind of guy Rick is. Remember the hiker shouting for help. All that guy was worth was whatever was in his bag after they found him torn to shreds. They weren't going to help him. That's how Rick sees outsiders, and it was further emphasized with his exchange with Tyreese's group. Rick (to this point) has barely seen Michonne as part of the group. He wanted her gone as soon as she was healed. He made pains telling his son how she was just temporary help on their trip home. He'd only barely started turning the corner on her, the bit letting her drive. It's not like they're bosom buddies, any more than Merle.

And Rick is not a solitary leader. He's a broken man who sees his dead wife everywhere. And he's been offered an easy out.

Rick is a ****ing idiot if he thinks the Gov will let them go.

My guess is that Andrea finds out and finally flips back to helping the group (and hopefully dies in a zombie horde in the process - she's never going to die, you know). The group is warned, turns the tables on the governor. But merle is the wild card. Maybe he finds out about the offer and takes Michonne himself. Finally finishes turning his brother against him. Milton could have a role of some kind too, bonding with Hershel, and then his reaction to the plan.

I like that they've muddied the waters enough that a variety of things can conceivably happen.

Some people are going to die, whatever it is.

Merle is the inside guy for the Gov.

He was trying to draw Michonne to the meeting so that they could get her.

(All speculation, of course)

What's everyone's thoughts on who offs the Governor?

Andrea?

Michonne?

Rick?

Maggie?

Milton?

Carl?

Walker(s)?

The entire group gets killed because the governor attacks while maggie and glenn are on a **** break when they're supposed to be on watch. Season 4 is from the PoV of Morgan's zombie son.

:hmmm:

As long as Morgan's son doesn't fall in love with a girl and slowly un-zombifies.

I think not-maggie daughter bites it. And maybe Carol. Merle does something that gets her killed, and Daryl goes apeshit. The governor I think has to die because of his own hubris, not killed by any of the group.

I like it. Although I think part of Season 4 should be Glenn and Maggie working through their survivor's guilt. Lots of silence punctuated by awkward conversations.

THIS WEEK ON "TALKING DEAD": Bobcat Goldwaith and Kristin Chenowith discuss whether Glenn fetching water for Maggie indicates a thaw in their relationship.

that's right, my bad it's been a couple of years

Speaking of talking dead, lauren cohan is really hot when she's not moused up in maggie dress or talking in faux southern drawl. She was giving me pants-raising reminders of Bela Talbot last night.

Yes, speaking of "Talking Dead," was I the only one who thought Hardwick went way out of his way last night to proclaim how much he LOVED Andrea (the character)? I was wondering if he did that intentionally to offset so much of the online HATE for her this season.

Andrea, Michonne and Maggie all take turns torturing his ass with Glenn handing them a new implement of torture every 30 seconds.

Then they leave him out the in open as Walker-Chow.

OK....I missed last weeks conversation about crazy morgan and just got caught up today.
I've read the two compendiums.

so LAST week I kept waiting and watching for....

well I guess it won't be Andrea! she is a flat out reerun! let us remember that even after finding out about the heads and his zombie daughter....she STILL chose to stay there and she STILL treated the gov with kindness and affection. you know....instead of running the other way like WHAT THE ****! like anyone else would have done.

You may want to add the Carl bit to the spoiler tags, it's a comic spoiler.

I think based on her reaction last night, and what was shown of her in the upcoming episode, that her eyes have been opened.

I did....but it still shows on your response.
I thought I saw conversations about that particular item on the last few pages so that's why I didn't "spoiler" it.

I took it out.

umm.....too much info my friend......TMI!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hpwJE5DEk7U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

here is a spoiler to your spoiler. ;)

aight den....but....

Alright, Andrea gets the "She needs an Undead fist jammed in her box" award.


Lori carried the award with pride.

I just finished "Day By Day Armageddon". It was decent.

OK, sorry, not to beat a dead horse, but I was thinking about this last night, and I didn't want to go searching thru my books....but I'm pretty dang sure (although I realize I could be wrong...and I do have a bad habit now of confusing book vs show....) that in one disturbing sequence in the book that...

Too.....Many.....Spoiler Tags!!!!!

Must resist.......

I’ve read them, I don’t think they’ll ruin your view of the show.
Though it is kind of interesting that….

:evil:

Prick.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lb...1xnko1_500.gif

I REALLY want someone to chime in on this. I think I'm right! I think what I'm saying above IS in the book.

by the way, just my opinion of course, but I personally don't think necessarily knowing stuff about the books is gonna ruin the show for anyone. especially considering there are such major differences.

one thing I have been eagerly watching for is....sorry notorious.....

FYP

FYP...again...

I hate her!

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/upl...02/wdgif83.gif

OH...MY...DAMN....I was right. used a little google-ology and came up with the following.
that depraved psycho sonofabitch was TOTALLY

:LOL:

REALLY!
it's BB not even walking dead. boooo!

I remember that now.

:cuss:

You guys........

I had no idea the blonde farmer's daughter is 27 years old in real life. Now I don't feel so guilty for.....nevermind...

Holy shit.

It always amazes me when I see some of these actresses who look like they're in their early 20's are in their early-to-mid 30's.

I'm sorry local older ladies, but women in their 30's do NOT usually look like that in real life. LMAO

Yeah, and in this case, she looks like she is AT MOST high teens, and possibly even 14 or 15. But 27? Did not expect that. Fine by me, though. Now I can run rancid with my horrible disgusting thoughts.

So I re-watched the last episode and now I think that whole story the Governor gave Rick about his wife was :BS:.
He wasn’t intimidating Rick, he wasn’t softening him up with the whiskey and he needed some way to break the ice. Andrea told him about Shane, she most likely told him Rick is seeing Lori too.
The smug look on his face when Rick reaches for that shot of whiskey to me is the tell.

Edit: something else that makes me think this is during the after show they mentioned the Governor gives a quick smirk just before he says something screwed up, it’s the same thing he does when Rick reaches for the shot.

Another filler episode, but a good one at that. Looking forward to seeing what's going to go down. Only shame is that there's only 3 episodes left.

that smug look. you just want to strangle him.

I'm having a problem with the battling camps storyline. I know you can't try to apply real life logic to a TV show, yet I find myself doing it a lot. my problem is the Governors people. Gov is a lying dick hole. his people are not reeruned and they are not evil. they're just dudes...and gals. yet they just blindly do whatever he says. lets go kill the people at the camp! OK!! these people aren't murderers...they're just people. but when he says lets go murder folks they snap right to it. it's dumb. I could appreciate it more if they could have done more with the storyline in making the Govs people think Ricks crew is a buncha murderous freaks instead of it mostly being them taking the Govs word for it.

still a great show though.

hahahaha! annoying the crap outta you!?

post 3973...you should check it out for a chuckle. no actual show/comic spoilers there....honest. :evil:

Well, it's not a hard sell to the Governor's group that they're dangerous. First, you have a leader that's kept them safe all this time. That counts for something. Then you have this rogue group (Rick's group) sneak in at night, bust their friends out, and kill some of their people.

not to derail the thread - but 2nd one is good - 3rd one (just out) - is horrid.

Why doesn't Ricks group just run away and hit the road?

Funny that Merle is the voice of reason. Someone just needs to take the governor out. Problem solved.

They have the baby. They have a shit ton of guns now, but a group that size with a wailing infant would be hard to keep under the radar.

Not to mention they run the risk of meeting more people like those ****ers from Philly and the Governor out on the road as well.

Bold prediction. Milton and Herschel team up to take out the Govenor.

Milton and the baby

well....yeah....I guess. I still feel the storyline could have made this more believable.
refresh my memory....BEFORE Ricks group broke in and freed them, they had Ricks people held captive and were even torturing them to some extent. how did the Gov justify this to his soldier boys? I can't remember.
you know it showed one of the soldier boys be a total human being with Darryl. like I said, they're just dudes. so why believe all the Govs BS.

oh another thing....in the book....

The Wimp and the Gimp!

Herschel used to kind of annoy me when they were on the farm, but I like the character a lot more now.

My thoughts exactly. It just doesnt make much sense to me that the followers of the Governor and Rick would be willing to go to war and risk their lives for them.

Heck, you could make a solid argument that Martinez + Daryl should just take out the Governor and Rick. Then create a supergroup with the Prison and Woodbury.

They still havent given me a solid reason why Andrea stays with the Govenor? What has she done that was so wrong she couldnt rejoing Ricks group? In the previews for next week, it does look like shes starting to come to her senses.

RIGHT! because like I said....I don't feel there is enough proof or reason for the Govs people to be all...WE GOTTA KILL THESE GUYS. the storyline hasn't supported that.
it's really getting kinda dumb. the ONLY one that wants to kill kill kill is the Gov. why write his soldiers as such mindless stooges? and then show the scene with Darryl where it's quite obvious the Govs boys are NOT mindless stooges.
oh well....

Hmmm...makes on think that right before the big battle a large hoard of walkers will show up. Yep, calling my shot here that this is what will happen on the show.

OH YEAH! Thanks! I had forgotten the specifics.
now I completely recall reading that and being all....that's what you GET BITCH!
hahahaha!

Yea, your right..they havent done a good job of explaining why the WOodbury people would be willing to fight and die for the Govenor. This war really boils down to a personal thing between the Gov. and Michone. Wait, didnt one of Ricks group accidently kill a kid during the raid? I guess from their limited perspective, they have been taught to fear Ricks group by the Govenor.


I like the show alot, i have alot of fun with it, but its the type of show that doesnt hold up once you really start digging into it after it ends. It is what it is, its probably the best its ever going to be and thats fine.

Cool, the 2nd one is coming in today.


The first was good, but everything was a little too "convienient".

Apocalypse: Beginning of the End was a lot grittier. The guy is just a normal Joe who has to grind out everything.

I can see why WWZ was made into a movie. It has an Epic scope to it compared to the other books I have read. (Running zombies, though, that will hurt one of the most important scenes if they include it in the movie.)

Good prediction. They act like walkers are an afterthought now, what we need is an Atlanta sized herd of a million to stomp a mudhole in their ass.

They haven't really portrayed the Woodbury people as on board with a war. Matrinez and maybe one or two others. But them going along with the governor could be explained with extra privileges they probably get - like alcohol, or just the feeling of being a higher ranking member of the Woodbury society.
Not that many went to the prison. Most were back at the town and it's reasonable to believe that would be willing to take up arms in defense.
As far as they know Rick and his group are bloodthirsty kooks. They value their safety and their somewhat comfortable life so if the Governor says they need to pick up a gun in defense against some sort of barbarians they'd listen.
It'd be different if they knew it was a grudge against Michonne and that Rick and his group were really just like them, but they don't. Not for the most part.

I just don’t see people being that hard to work up into a fighting frenzy with the ole “those people what to take what you’ve got” scare tactic particularly not when there is a charismatic leader like the Governor.