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-   -   Chiefs What's with the Thigpen fixation? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=202158)

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-11-2009 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hall (Post 5479975)
Brees doesn't have that kind of line.
He has one of the five best lines in the NFL.

doomy3 02-11-2009 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5480017)
He has one of the five best lines in the NFL.
how do you figure that?

Sam Hall 02-11-2009 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5480017)
He has one of the five best lines in the NFL.
I seriously doubt that.

Basileus777 02-11-2009 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5480017)
He has one of the five best lines in the NFL.
The Saints line is not quite that good, even if you only take pass blocking into account.

OnTheWarpath15 02-11-2009 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hall (Post 5480001)
You can't honestly say that Brees had 635 attempts last season and only got hit three times per game. You're stretching things again.
Did you read the goddamn post?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...d-hurries-2008

Not counting sacks, Brees was hit 36.5 times in 14 games.

Do the ****ing math.

If he was hit 36.5 times in 14 games, that's 2.6 times per game.

And actually, you need to re-read my post. I had accidently listed those numbers based on 12 games played, when it was actually 14.

Here are the actual numbers:

Quote:
Translation: Until hits taken are an official NFL stat, I have my doubts. Seems like there is no uniform guidelines as to what a hit is, or isn't.

For sake of conversation, let's play with these numbers.

Through 14 weeks, Brees was supposedly hit 36.5 times.

That averages out to 2.6 times per game.

So, the best we can do is assume he was hit 42 times over the course of the season.

Add that to the 13 sacks he took, and we have contact on 55 out of 635 pass attempts. Or contact every 11.5 pass attempts.

Roethlisberger wasn't on the list, so we don't have numbers to do the math - but it shows he was hurried the same number of times that Brees was.

Let's be fair and say that BR took HALF (which is being generous, IMO) of the hits that Brees took. 1.5 per game.

That's 21 hits over the course of the season, added to the 46 sacks he took. Contact on 67 plays over the course of the season, out of 469 pass attempts - or contact every 7 pass attempts.

SAUTO 02-11-2009 01:32 PM
rothlisberger wasnt on the list because he was farther down right?

OnTheWarpath15 02-11-2009 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 5480012)
He made a logical projection from the stats we had in hand. Hard to argue with that.

And it doesn't make Brees a bad quarterback.
NO ONE has said he's a bad QB.

Sam is just getting ****ing pwned in a debate about who takes more hits, and if Brees would survive behind the Steelers OL and running their offense - and is reaching to cover his ass.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-11-2009 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5480032)
how do you figure that?
Jamal Brown is a premier left tackle. Carl Nicks was a monster, Jalani Evans and Jon Stinchcomb are both very, very good players for their position.

It's not like the Saints couldn't run. It's that they chose not to.

Hell, when they decided to give Pierre Thomas the rock he ran wild.

doomy3 02-11-2009 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5480056)
NO ONE has said he's a bad QB.

Sam is just getting ****ing pwned in a debate about who takes more hits, and if Brees would survive behind the Steelers OL and running their offense - and is reaching to cover his ass.
I don't see how that is true. So far, the only thing I have seen that supports that is that Ben got sacked more. And that is due, in large part, to the fact that he holds onto the ball WAY too long. He often pump fakes 3 or 4 times.

OnTheWarpath15 02-11-2009 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5480069)
I don't see how that is true. So far, the only thing I have seen that supports that is that Ben got sacked more. And that is due, in large part, to the fact that he holds onto the ball WAY too long. He often pump fakes 3 or 4 times.
Even if you take "hits" out of the equation for BR, since he's not on the list and we don't have a solid number...

Brees took contact on 55 of 635 pass attempts. Or contact every 11.5 pass attempts.

Assuming BR NEVER got hit OTHER than sacks, he had contact on 46 of 469 attempts. Or contact every 10.2 attempts.

So, Roethlisberger took more contact per attempt on SACKS ALONE, than Brees did with sacks and hits combined.

Sam Hall 02-11-2009 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5480056)
NO ONE has said he's a bad QB.

Sam is just getting ****ing pwned in a debate about who takes more hits, and if Brees would survive behind the Steelers OL and running their offense - and is reaching to cover his ass.
It makes no sense that he throws that many times and only gets hit three times a game. Think about how may times he faces a blitz.

OnTheWarpath15 02-11-2009 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5480060)
Jamal Brown is a premier left tackle. Carl Nicks was a monster, Jalani Evans and Jon Stinchcomb are both very, very good players for their position.

It's not like the Saints couldn't run. It's that they chose not to.

Hell, when they decided to give Pierre Thomas the rock he ran wild.
Agreed.

Not many OL's I'd take over the Saints.

crazycoffey 02-11-2009 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5479973)
Translation: Until hits taken are an official NFL stat, I have my doubts. Seems like there is no uniform guidelines as to what a hit is, or isn't.

For sake of conversation, let's play with these numbers.

Through 14 weeks, Brees was supposedly hit 36.5 times.

That averages out to 2.6 times per game.

So, the best we can do is assume he was hit 42 times over the course of the season.

Add that to the 13 sacks he took, and we have contact on 55 out of 635 pass attempts. Or contact every 11.5 pass attempts.

Roethlisberger wasn't on the list, so we don't have numbers to do the math - but it shows he was hurried the same number of times that Brees was.

Let's be fair and say that BR took HALF (which is being generous, IMO) of the hits that Brees took. 1.5 per game.

That's 21 hits over the course of the season, added to the 46 sacks he took. Contact on 67 plays over the course of the season, out of 469 pass attempts - or contact every 7 pass attempts.


Nicely played sir....

keg in kc 02-11-2009 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5480056)
NO ONE has said he's a bad QB.

Sam is just getting ****ing pwned in a debate about who takes more hits, and if Brees would survive behind the Steelers OL and running their offense - and is reaching to cover his ass.
I think it's kind of a pointless argument. They're completely different style quarterbacks. Roethlisberger's still more in the game-manager mold (although less than in the past with no real running game), whereas Brees is the central cog of that offense. I'd say Brees would fit the Steelers system about as well as Roethlisberger would fit the Saints, in other words. Both teams would have to fundamentally change what they do to fit the other behind center.

Either way, in the end, they're still both franchise quarterbacks. And Tyler Thigpen isn't either one of them.

OnTheWarpath15 02-11-2009 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hall (Post 5480085)
It makes no sense that he throws that many times and only gets hit three times a game. Think about how may times he faces a blitz.
Jesus.

Someone comes up with stats that show how many times he was hit in 2008, and now you're disputing that.

It's what we have to work with, and it's a hell of a lot more than your assumption that because he throws more, he gets hit more.


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