Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498002)

I'm guessing you don't follow my posts in the NBA thread then. The three point revolution in the league that emerged with the Warriors was always going to come to the NCAA. It's just a question of math.

Originally Posted by BDj23 (Post 13498009)

Marcus Garrett trying to lead the charge

Smdh

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13498011)

No I haven't. But you've talked about it here. But Hoiberg was jacking 3s like they were the cure before the Splash Brothers got going and you weren't calling for wholesale changes then. And the math was still the same then.

It still boils down to efficiency, and it is hard to get guys that can defend the post and shoot 3s. So CONSISTENTLY making the math work in college is tough.

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 13498016)

Fine, I found it. 11 is the most made, 18 the most attempted.

Three-Point Field-Goal
Percentage
(Minimum Seven 3FGM)

66.7% (10-15), UNLV vs. Georgia Tech, NSF,
3-31-1990

64.7% (11-17), North Carolina vs. Villanova, CH,
4-4-2016

63.6% (7-11), Indiana vs. Syracuse, CH, 3-30-
1987

63.6% (7-11), Duke vs. Indiana, NSF, 4-4-1992

61.5% (8-13), Indiana vs. Oklahoma, NSF, 3-30-
2002

61.1% (11-18), Syracuse vs. Kansas, CH, 4-7-
2003

61.1% (11-18), Villanova vs. Oklahoma, NSF,
4-2-2016

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13497989)

Some of it is on KU. We were crawling back into it and then they got 3 straight possessions puking up offensive rebounds and they pushed it to 20. ****ing murdered the momentum.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498020)

Well you can't be absolutely trash defensively (Iowa State) and win even if you take the most threes. It's why I'm picking the Warriors over the Rockets this year even though Houston is far better analytically in that regard.

That doesn't mean that the strategy to take more threes isn't a sound one and always has been, though. You're right that it's tougher in college, partially due to there being not as many good shooters readily available, but Villanova is obviously intentionally recruiting shooters for exactly that purpose.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498024)

North Carolina lost that game two years ago FYI. Shot threes at a far, far better clip (65%) than Villanova did tonight (47%) and lost.

The difference is strategy and volume, not percentage.

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow (Post 13498028)

If nothing else, kcc FINALLY gets to say "ha ha ha, I was right!!1!11!"

Only took 5 games.

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 13498034)

And accuracy. You can't just jack up threes if they're not going in.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498043)

Oh yeah, because I'm so satisfied KU got blown out in a FF game that Self got badly outcoached in.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13498032)

Right. But it is damned hard to get guys that can consistently hit 3s to play the Nova is playing. That's why it isn't necessarily just as easy as KU jacking more 3s because math. NOVA is ****ing good. That's why they can do what they do.

Originally Posted by KCTitus (Post 13498044)

At most 12 possessions down by 15...tough...

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow (Post 13498048)

I'm generally on your side in things, but you've been waiting for KU to lose to say "told you so."

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498043)

Oh yeah, because I'm so satisfied KU got blown out in a FF game that Self got badly outcoached in.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13498053)

If Nova shits the bed in the title game I'll go on a killing spree.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498050)

It's also why you will probably see a lot of the top programs start more recruiting shooters and playing offensive systems like this. This is almost certainly going to be 2 titles in 3 years playing like this. They're a step ahead of everyone else right now.

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 13498031)

Yes, some of it is on KU. I'm not claiming Self is pulling off some great coaching moves. I just can't stand it when people pull out the "just got out-coached" card because the other team came out on fire. Its lazy analysis. There' no coaching in this type of game.

Originally Posted by KCTitus (Post 13498056)

outcoached? You are a ****ing idiot.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498062)

Yes, outcoached completely actually. And that's what will leave me more sad about this one than anything as I'm a huge Self fan.

Originally Posted by Mr_Tomahawk (Post 13498057)

So who is leaving the off-season (other than the seniors)? Are Malik and Dok gone?

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 13498066)

Agreed. Self tried to answer 3's with 2's from the very beginning.

Duke showed Self at his best, this showed Self at his most stubborn.

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 13498066)

Agreed. Self tried to answer 3's with 2's from the very beginning.

Duke showed Self at his best, this showed Self at his most stubborn.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 13498065)

Don't even have the heart to hold it under 20 after trying most of the game.

Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 13498047)

Change KC's user to something Kenpom related.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498062)

Yes, outcoached completely actually. And that's what will leave me more sad about this one than anything as I'm a huge Self fan.

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow (Post 13498081)

I'm assuming he thought they wouldn't hit 18 three's

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow (Post 13498081)

I'm assuming he thought they wouldn't hit 18 three's

Originally Posted by BDj23 (Post 13498087)

This sucks, and I'm sad... but ain't nobody beating that.

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 13498088)

How did Nova lose 4 games this year?

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498074)

Exactly. I'm assuming he thought Udoka would produce enough inside the arc to make leaving him out there defensively worth it, but it was beyond obvious from very early in the game that wouldn't be the case and he never adjusted to it.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498086)

KU ended up taking one more three (15) than Villanova (14) in that 2nd half and sure enough they were far more competitive with them (funny what actually running them off the 3PT line can accomplish). I have no idea what Self was doing in that first half.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498086)

KU ended up taking one more three (15) than Villanova (14) in that 2nd half and sure enough they were far more competitive with them (funny what actually running them off the 3PT line can accomplish). I have no idea what Self was doing in that first half.

Originally Posted by KCTitus (Post 13498104)

Far more competitive in the second half? That's just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 13498100)

Yeah. But SDS didn't do a lot either. I'd like to have seen them do some more switch everything and zone and maybe some junk defenses too, but that likely wouldn't have done much.

Fact is they beat us. If they hadn't been so damned hot to start with it would have been a lot closer, but I still feel like they would have won. Every time we got something going, they'd roll out a shot (some were lucky, yes, but many were open)

I'm not sure Self could have done much differently that would have materially affected the outcome.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498113)

How is it ridiculous? It's what happened. They kept pace with them offensively in the 2nd half (-1) and got absolutely annihilated in the first half. And a lot of that had to do with the difference in the volume of threes both teams took in the first (26 to 6).


Considering I'm on record as saying before the game that the only chance KU had was to take more threes than Villanova and considering 77% of Villanova's shots were threes in the first half, yeah, I think he should have been telling them to take a TON more. Of course, even the fact that Villanova took so many is partially on Self for allowing them to do so.

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 13498116)

KU overachieved this season. Ask any of you guys mid season if you would take a final 4 appearance and I think the majority of you would take it.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498114)

Maybe not (Villanova is a much better team than Kansas and played a great game, that's going to lead to this outcome way more often than that), but I'm a massive Self fan and I still can't come away from that first half thinking anything but that he was outcoached.

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 13498112)

They seemed more competitive because Nova slowed down their pace to basically a halt.

I get what you're saying about the game evolving, but this kind of shooting is abnormal and will be difficult to achieve in college. It's almost impossible to be this good from deep in college CONSISTENTLY. NCAA is not NBA.

Originally Posted by KCTitus (Post 13498115)

You assume, of course, that KU would have been able to match the shooting percentage, which was unprecedented in a FF game. What Villanova did was unprecedented...and therefore not a product of coaching.

You should be happy...you've predicted a KU loss since round one. It's time for you to take you glory. dont ****ing pretend it was coaching

Originally Posted by Dunit35 (Post 13498118)

I was surprised as anyone that they made it this far.

Still sucks watching them lose and not seeing seniors play any more. Sucks every year.

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 13498119)

KU has three good 3-point shooters (I don't trust Vick). KU doesn't have a Spillman. There's no mismatch on the perimeter. It's much tougher to guard five 3-point shooters who can also very easily drive.

The only thing that would have changed if KU took a bunch of shitty contested threes in the first half is that you wouldn't be able to say "Self got out-coached." The outcome of the game would be very much the same, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Mr_Tomahawk (Post 13498095)

Good season. If you would have told me this team was going to be in the FF in Jan/Feb...I would have called you a liar.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498121)

I wish I was pretending. I was it was as simple as Villanova being a great team playing a great game, but there were coaching issues to be addressed here. The fact that I've never criticized Self like this before after his many other tournament losses should tell you something.

Originally Posted by KCTitus (Post 13498122)

absolutely...KU has wasted more talent than this.

Quite frankly, the FF was a major milestone for this team.

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 13498125)

Try Lightfoot on Spellman, he can move his feet well enough to keep up with him. Have Lightfoot take some threes (he showed early in the season he was capable of it) and open up the offense for others. Run all of their shooters off the 3PT line even if it gives them a good path to the basket, it's better than giving them every 3PT shot they want. He stuck with Azubuike stubbornly and there were things to be done that he never even attempted and I'm not sure why.

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 13498127)

KU's first three all game was taken at what point of the game?

I think Self's biggest knock on this game was that his gameplan necessitated on us winning 2 > 3 and he waited far too long to make any adjustments. It happens, even the best coaches have off days. I'll trade games like Duke for games like this - there's never any shame in dropping in the Final Four.