Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 8751237)

why?

He had the same production when we were in the top 11 as when we were in the bottom 6.
.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8751228)

Cardinals pass attempts by year during Fitz's career.

#13
#1
#7
#2
#2
#3
#11
#15

Chiefs pass attempts by year during Bowe's career.

#11
#9
#18
#29
#26

I bet Bowe would be regarded as "TRULY ELITE" if he switched teams.

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 8751217)

Fitz is truly elite. He has out up unbelievable numbers with crap quarterbacks (sans the time with Warner)

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 8751249)

What rb's did the cards have?

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 8751223)

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 8751223)

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8751258)

Why does it god damn ****ing matter, you idiot?

If you put Bowe in Arizona with no RBs they're gonna throw to him a lot more.

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 8751292)

I dont know why. Guess i figure a team with a top running game would tend to throw the ball less.

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 8751223)

This is the complete opposite of what I'm doing.

The people pulling out every stat they can think of are the people trying to making the case that he's elite. I don't care what his numbers are. A guy can play with someone like Drew Brees and put up a bunch of yards and TDs, it doesn't make him an elite player. It makes him a guy in a good situation. On the other hand, a guy can play with shit around him and still be a beast. You can be an elite player and not have huge stats.

The very first thing I said in this thread is that if you have to look at a bunch of numbers to make the case that a guy is elite, then he's probably not. And that's all that's going on here.

We all watch Bowe play. If we're being honest, we all know that outside of his one great year in 2010, the games where Bowe went beast, the games where you'd watch him and turn to your buddy and go "Holy shit! I'd put him right up there with the best in the league!" -- which is what it means to be elite -- are far less common than the games where he was simply good.

It's like I'm insulting Bowe that I'm not saying he's elite. He's a VERY GOOD receiver. The best one the Chiefs have had since the Hoover administration. He's right in that group under the elite. He deserves every penny he can squeeze out of Clark. I have said all of this more than once.

He's just not an elite player. If he was an elite player, you could mention him in the same breath as other elite players. Megatron, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... Dwayne Bowe. Bit of a drop there.

And even the people saying Bowe is elite seem to admit this. They just want to expand the category of "elite" so it has multiple tiers, where Bowe can be included but still be ranked below the guys who actually ARE elite. Except doing that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8751300)

This is an argument in favor of Bowe, you realize.

(you don't)

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 8751310)

You quoted pass attempts between two teams. One with a upper echelon running game and one with dick for a running game.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8751287)

Roddy White got paid.

Bowe should get paid.

They are in the same tier.

Unless you think Roddy White is as good as Fitz and Megatron.