I wasn't saying this team and 2004 was better than the whiteyball teams just the best since. It's hard to compare different era teams against each other. Whiteyball was invented to fit a ballpark.


But the 67 team would have kicked the azz of the 2004 team. Gibby would have put a fastball in Pujols ear and took him out of the game fast. ROFL

If this pitching stays anywhere close to what its achieving now and our bats come close to their potential, this team can be put in the hopper for a nomination for best team.

Yeah, Gibby, Carlton, Briles were tough to beat.

Brock, Cepada, et al hit fairly well during a dead ball, high mound era as well.

My vote goes to the '67 squad.

Wish I could remember the 60's era of the Cardinals :( I was born in 62.

Gun to my head, I go with the '67 squad.

But it's easy to forget just how incredible that '04 lineup was. Edmonds and Rolen would've easily been the best hitters on that '67 squad. Hell, Walker might have been as well. Oh yeah, and Albert Pujols is possibly the greatest hitter of all time. Womack was at his best that season and ER was a perfect run producer. It was also one of the few TLR squads with legitimate, game changing, speed.

The defense was impeccable -- ER, Matheny, Womack and Edmonds up the middle with AP and Rolen at the corner IF spots. :drool: And then Walker had the best defensive instincts of any of them. Sanders was the worst defender and he was merely average. The SPing and bullpen for the '04 squad didn't have the elite talent at the top, but was much deeper. Carlton had control issues still and with the patient hitters on the team, I think the '04 squad could neutralize him by running up his pitches, drawing walks and relying on a lineup with 3 guys that terrorized lefties in AP, Rolen and ER to do enough damage to get by.

In a short series, the '67 squad trotting out that top 3 probably takes it. But in 1967, there were no playoffs. Over 162 games, I think the 2004 squad wins more games and take the NL pennant.

Always an interesting discussion but always subject to the "the old guys were better" bias. I think I'd be happy to take either side of that argument if needed. Both sides have compelling cases.

I was born in '81.

But I read a lot...that's gotta count for somethin'

We don't know if he'll revert back to his OLD ways, but that would be why Penny might consider taking an extension very soon. He knows what could happen with an injury . It would benefit him by getting a another year of guarantee'd money on his contract. The Cardinals could add another year to his contract and give him a few hundred thousand more for the 2nd year or give him One million more in year 2 with an option for a 3rd year that is incentive laden to the max.

I guess for Penny it would be the one in the hand - instead of two in the bush scenario :shrug:

I remember we got to watch the 67 or 68 World Series in class one year. I bet that never happens now.

I've got uncles and older brothers who talk about the 60's Cardinals all the time at family gatherings. Reading is good and I've read numerous items on the 60's articles. IMO, its still not the same like watching with your own
eyes and paying attention on a daily basis.

I agree with BRC that this team does have the potential to be one of the top Cardinal teams. But we have another 140 games left to the regular season
and hopefully lots of October baseball to determine that.

This team of 2010 has not a won the WS - 10 other Cardinal teams have.
This years starting pitching so far, has been terrific.

He's making 9 million this season coming off a lousy year last year.

He'll want at least 3/$36 to consider bypassing a FA run. And ultimately, if I were him, I'd want 4/$48 to keep me from at least testing the FA market.

With Carp, WW and Lohse, you're talking over $33 million on starting pitching. Throw another $11 in there for Penny (likely slightly backloaded) and you're talking about nearly $45 million in 4 starting pitchers, all of whom are locked up in long-term deals.

With the tenuous health history of starting pitchers, even more critically Penny and Carp, you're really risking a lot by setting up your budget that way. Especially if you intend to throw $30 million at Albert with Holliday already making $17.

$90 million for your rotation and 2 position players? Not gonna happen.

At the high school I attened, our HS principal was a huge baseball fan.
In our study hall (next to his office) he would allow us to watch the playoffs
every year. That was f'n SWEET.

Does anyone else get nervous watching Pujols walk around around after legging out a single or running the bases hard? Like holy crap he didn't hurt something did he?

Not nearly as nervous as I do when he catches a ball from short and steps backwards across the baseline.

It's an absolutely awful habit that he's developed and it will likely get him some bruised ribs (if we're lucky) one day. He just steps backward right into the path of these runners for no good reason.

I wish they'd try to work with him on getting rid of that.

The facts are staring us in the face. We are not the Yankees. We can't keep every good player we have and not worry if they fall off a cliff performance wise.

When Duncan leaves its gonna leave a mark on us being able to get these MLB rejects and get some production out of them.

The only solution is to keep finding the Rasmus's and Garcia's.

The farm will need to come up big.

Lance Lynne is our 5th starter in 2012, IMO. Garcia will have stepped up as a #3 and Shelby Miller will be waiting in the wings for 2013 when Carp will have to be let go in order to afford WW's new contract.

2012: WW, Carp, Garcia, Lohse, Lynne
2013: WW$, Garcia, FA, Lynne, Miller

And I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Oquendo as our manager with Mike Matheny as the pitching coach.

EDIT: Forgot we had a club option on WW for 2012 and 2013.

When the club exercises those, they'll get Adam Wainwright for 6 years, $36 million over the life of that deal.

Are you F'ing kidding me?

Yeah if Tony leaves after this year or next it has to be Oquendo. Especially if Pujols isn't resigned.