Our back court is a lot better than their's. That'll probably be what decides the game. I'm anxious to see how Embiid does against Ridley. They rebound really well.

I believe…… …….that we will win.

I'd say by 5-6 points.

We could really use Black in this game.

Depends on the foul calls IMO. If they let them beat the shit out of us, it could be a long night.

I can provide you the NCAA tourney probability grid. He's perfectly average based on seed. He's 5-4 vs teams seeded equal or better to his. Yes we can say he's been more successful in March than the vast majority but vs peers (Cal, K, Pitino, Roy, Donovan etc) he's almost identical.


Don't get your panties in a wad. Math can be fun. We all like Bill Self.

He's identical to five of the best coaches in college (or history) and to win a championship in the last decade?

Yeah... That's ****ing "so-so" you twat.

Ya know...that guy shows up in flashes.

For being a 5th yr SR, he sure does get into foul trouble a lot, and many times they're stupid fouls. You'd think he'd be smarter than that considering the amount of experience he has.

So who would win this matchup?

An All-Roy vs. All-Self matchup:

All-Roy
PG-Jacques Vaughn
SG-Kirk Hinrich
SF-Paul Pierce
PF-Nick Collison
C-Raef LaFrentz

All-Self
PG-Mario Chalmers
SG-Ben McLemore
SF-Andrew Wiggins
PF-Thomas Robinson
C-Joel Embiid

It's a fun debate...and I'm bored. Would you go with the more experienced Roy team, or take Self's more athletic team, that while younger, could possibly hit a higher ceiling?

I know I'm not in this debate, but given the choices I'll take Self's team. But my God that'd be a great matchup to watch.

Are you sure thats Self's starting five?

Aldrich, Arthur, Rush, Tyshawn, EJ?

And then there's Simien, Langford, Boshee, Rex, Reed, Withey, Sheron Collins…

damn we've had a lot of great players...

Starters only, it's close (I'd want to wait a few years to see how everyone performs at the professional level), but I do believe Self's team has the edge if you include a bench.

Roy's Bench:
Jeff Boschee
Wayne Simien
Mark Randall
Drew Gooden
Scot Pollard

Self's Bench:
Sherron Collins
Brandon Rush
Darrell Arthur
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris

With the two teams you present, I say they split a 10 game series.

My teams below would be better. But another fun thing is who would win a 10 game series between the 1997 team and the 2008 team? I think 2008 wins 6 out of 10, if not 7.

For the Self team, give me Sherron at point, Mario at the 2, Rush on the wing, Arthur at the 4, and JoJo at the 5. My guards would guard like mad and score inside and out at will, and facilitate for a team that could run Roys into the ground. My 2, 3, & 5 would be beasts on defense. My 1, 2 & 3 could shred from three. My 4 & 5 would be able to dominate physically down low, but would also have finesse to outplay bigger players when needed. Arthur was so much better than people remember. And Collins and Chalmers ripped the heart out of so many opponents. Rush was great defensively and was a deadly 3-point shooter. And Embiid would flourish with these four guys around him.

For Roy, the pg is a tricky position, because although you could say Vaughn was the best, woulf his style really fit with Kirk. Because you have to have him at the 2. So, I would probably take Miles over Vaughn for that reason. Miles may be better defensively too. Then give me PP on the wing, obviously. The 4 & 5 are tough as well. LaFrentz always seemed more like a 4 to me, and in my memory Pollard usually played the 5. So, I would go with the two best post players in LaFrentz and Collison and let them rotate at the 5 as needed.

With these two teams, I feel that Self wins 7 out of 10, if not more.

Or how about Browns team with Pritchard, Newton, Kellogg, Marshall and Manning? They definitely lead in the NBA GM category with 2. Ok, maybe Newton wasn't a GM, he is the VP for the Wizards.

The only real change I'd make to Self's starting 5 would be Rush over McLemore, just because Rush was a better defender, and he's a little more mature on the court and was the better overall player. McLemore is more athletic, but it's not by that much. Rush is no slouch when it comes to athleticism.

But when it comes to depth, Self beats Roy's bench by a mile, and that was done in 11 years compared to Roy's 15. Self has trumped Roy in terms of recruiting while being at KU, esp in the big man dept.

Roy's bench:

PG-Adonis Jordan
PG-Jeff Boschee
PG-Aaron Miles
SG-Billy Thomas
SG-Rex Walters
SG-Michael Lee
SF-Kenny Gregory
SF-Keith Langford
PF-Wayne Simien
PF-Scot Pollard
PF-Drew Gooden
C-Greg Ostertag

Self's bench:

PG-Russell Robinson
PG-Sherron Collins
PG-Tyshawn Taylor
SG-Brandon Rush (or McLemore)
SG-Josh Selby
SG-Tyrel Reed (one of the best shooter's I've ever seen, hopefully Frankamp takes that title away)
SF-Xavier Henry
SF-Wayne Selden
PF-Julian Wright
PF-Darrell Arthur
PF-Darnell Jackson
PF-Marcus Morris
PF-Markieff Morris
PF-Perry Ellis
C-Jeff Withey
C-Cole Aldrich

Unless I heard wrong I'm pretty sure Jalen Rose just said KU didn't have any expectations this year, they're playing above that and the rest of the B12 will catch up with them eventually by the end of conference play. Love college gameday lol.