Then if the team doesn't get to the playoffs, it isn't necessarily his fault either?
Some people, I'm not saying you, want to blame him for team failures, but won't give him credit for team successes.

Well, see.. this is my point that you are strengthening.

KC is ranked 12th right now in offensive efficiency... and that is including the reality that Smith is averaging 198 yds per game... Jamaal Charles is averaging a mere 66 yds per game on the ground... and that KC is in the top 10 for dropped passes... and our D is stopping opponents to a 9 pts per game average... so how often has Alex needed to pitch the ball up for big yardage?

I think the whole thing got out of hand. I was referring to the post that said if they make the playoffs, then he was carrying the team. I was just pointing out that the poster left out all other variables, and I was simply stating two shitty QB's who made it through the playoffs based on the team around them. I wasn't actually trying to start another Alex Smith debate.

None yet which is why I've said numerous times that when the D faulters or ST gives up a TD or we have a few TO's THAT is when we will know more about Alice as a Chief. I've pointed out the 9ers gave up >24 points or more 4 times in the reg season last year so it's going to happen to the Chiefs as well for whatever reasons. It's what he does in those games that really matter and where a QB earns his paycheck.

If we are holding teams to 2 points than yeah play it close to the vest don't turn it over and cruise to an easy win.

Oh yes... the other games couldn't possibly matter. http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/s...t_facepalm.gif

Yep, tonight and next Sunday are the real tests for this month. Of course, at this point of the season I'm not expecting them to win a shootout, but I would like to see some aggressive play calling, especially if it's pretty clear early that they'll need to put up some points.... and especially tonight, against a team that's giving up so many passing yards. On the flip side, we'll also find out what the defense is really made of.... can't remember the last time I was looking forward to the Chiefs taking on a couple of favored teams. :hmmm:

Sounds like you don't have much confidence if he is going to have to put some points up. Me neither.

No idea, man. I think he is capable, if the nuances of the game force his hand. Alex does have a decent 47% completion percentage on his deep throws. I sure wish he had a Calvin Johnson/Mike Wallace target to feel more comfortable going deep to. Maybe Avery will suffice... maybe Bowe can win some jump balls.

I have always wanted to see Smith make a handful or so of deep post or fly throws. As per usual, his pass protection and game circumstances tend to keep those attempts down. Maybe it IS part of his unwillingness too... but again, the combination of poor pass pro + underwhelming deep threats + lack of deep shots can't be dismissed. They have surrounded Alex for years now.

Lol, fair enough. So many points get get out hand around here...

It matters that he doesn't piss down his leg and screw it up and of course he still need to show up and be competent... but, in the big picture, talking about what's required to win in the playoffs, being efficient against teams like Jacksonville and Dallas doesn't really mean anything. That's why that 21-5 stat (or whatever) is kind of pointless when looking at needs to be done to win hardware... you could have plugged in at least half the starting quarterbacks in the league on that team and they would have put up that kind of record.

Wow. Okay, I was definitely open to you being open. But after this? and the seeming reality that I never really see you post this much in other threads?

I think we all know where you are at now... which is fine.. but at least it's pretty clear now. Just wow. 21-5 winning % is pointless... and just about any QB can protect the ball, make smart decisions, and make the throws when most needed.... okay... that's just super.

Well he does have a 2-27-1 record when the other team scores 24 or more so the track record isn't good when the other side put up some points. Let's hope that changes.

another look at career stats... w/o regard to this team's past coaching and personnel misery... w/o regard to the way the 49ers were built... and that they were very ill suited in the first place to come back from large deficits...

Oh, we have a special kind of morning so far. :doh!:

Alexcuses 101 Teach it professor.

The chiefs are not built to overcome a 3 score deficit in the 4th quarter either...

It would seem that way, but I think it could be a little early to say that with any certainty.

Translation our quarterback sucks.
Posted via Mobile Device

Alex Smith- 25-26, 42 yards, 2 td's, 1 int.

Well, I didn't say it was completely pointless, I said it was pointless when trying to determine if a quarterback is capable of a deep playoff run/winning hardware. It's really no different than what I've been saying all along to those who think the past two games really matter. 18 of those 21 wins came against teams that didn't get past the first round of the playoffs, and in 2011, the NFCW and NFCE were possibly the worst divisions in the league (outside of SF). Those 18 wins just aren't all that relevant to the discussion we've been having for the past 2 weeks, just like Cassel's 10 wins that included several games against the two worst divisions in 2010 didn't matter when he went up against the Ravens in the playoffs. As far as those 21 wins, the Saints playoff game obviously matters, as does beating the Packers.... those are the games he can hang his hat on and say he has what it takes to beat the big boys.

I also didn't say 'just about any QB'... I said at least half of all starting QBs. Smith had the 9th best QB rating in 2011 and 6 other guys were within about 5 points of that... 19th in yards, 17th in TDs, but pretty efficient... so yeah, I don't think it's stretch to say any QB with an ~85 rating (half the league) could do about as well as a guy who ended up with a 90 rating. Cassel, who some say is clearly an inferior QB, had almost identical stats in 2010.

It happens but how many times a year does a team come back from three scores down? How many teams are built to come from three scores down? Three score down they're laughing and drinking and having a party!

Yes, since Kaepernick is 4-3-1 when the opposing teams scores 24 or more already. That's crazy. 80+ games for Alice to win 2. 10 games for Kaep to win 4.

What team is, especially in the 4th quarter?

If they were ever faced with that, it would be interesting to see how they would attack it. They have WRs with speed that would probably get more targets, so who knows.

Avery - 4.27
Jenkins - 4.37

What is the threshold for not sucking?

Seems there are 2 categories for QBs here: Suck and Elite.

The point being that we don't have a confident and quick strike passing offense yet.

It might happen this season. Who knows. Right now though I don't see us getting down big and being a quick strike offense like the Packers/Donks/Saints/Falcons/Lions...

The Falcons, Broncos, Saints, Packers, maybe the Patriots once their WR's come around.

Ours is average.

Will not have a horrible 3 int day but also won't blow up for a 4 TD day.

EIther is possible but not very likely...

The Eagles did the last time they played us...

Last year Cassel lead us from 18 down in the 3rd againt the same vaunted Saints defense that Alex won his playoff game against LMAO

OOOOOOOOOOOooooooh! Nice catch!

Bwah!!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QlTfWmFR2vM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Off the top of my head, NE, GB, NO, Atlanta, 49ers, Denver, and apparently the Texans (albeit, it wasn't the 4th quarter).

And since he was QB in that game, we KNOW Matt C is capable of putting a team on his back and being relied upon. Franchise QB!

Thus he got benched and replaced.

LMAO Yes! Funny how that happens when you show you can get a big win against the Saints.

Alex didn't have the luxury to sit behind a winning QB, on a winning team, with a great coach.

He also didn't have a Camp Rattay to help the whole offense learn the new system from the new coaching regime.

In 2005 the 49ers went through 4 injuries at QB, due to a horrible offensive line.

Rattay
Smith
Dorsey
Picket

Mike Nolan is way better than Harbaugh and Nolan should still be the head coach. ;)

Yeah that was because our D was designed to lose from three scores down.

Alex Smith isn't a great come from behind QB although he has come from behind before. Hell we were behind last week more then once :shrug: If he comes from 1 or 2 scores does that count or does it have to be three specifically?

I love me some Alexcuses :D

In reality there really isn't ANY excuse for that type of record in games where the opponent scores 24 or more. I would think even the Super Alice Homers would admit to that.

You know what? In reality Andy Reid wanted Alex Smith and there are no excuses for a 2 - 0 record. I would think a fan of KC would be happy about that.

As a 9er fan, I am upset we got blown out by the Seahawks 2 times in a row and our QB couldn't come back in the 4th qtr being 3 scores down. Especially with 49ers being built to overcome that type of deficit as some of you have stated. Damn, where was that ability to make that comeback in those games?

Actually Alex holds the 49ers record for most comebacks in a season to be fair. Without him 49ers would've never played nor beat the Saints in the playoffs.

My point: Who really cares what he did in 2005 through 2010? What have you done for me lately?

Nail meet head. You guys think that since we were shit last year we should be happy to have some of your scraps. Now some like Marcellus and BlackBob are, don't get me wrong, but there are others like me that would like to eat from the table. If you everyone is happy with an average QB and a 2-0 record you need to see my signature.

I'm not so sure. If Kaep was starting that game even as a rookie I think the 9ers still win and it probably doesn't take a come from behind victory. We'll never know.

The guy is 21 - 5 over the last 3 seasons. Some people need to get over the past and let go.

It's a feminine trait to worry about what has happened to you in the past and worry about the next guy that comes into your life.

"He's going to hurt me!"
"He's going to mess around behind my back!"
"I know he will!"
"I'm scared to get hurt!"

LOL grow some balls **ssies!

Kaep was no where near ready to play. That is why he was drafted in the 2nd round. He is still learning the game to this day.

LMAO If he was that great, his ass wouldn't have been on the pine for a guy (still learning the game to this day - opposistions words)

What we do know is that Harbaugh thought Kaep wasn't ready, which is what he probably learned from Walsh. He knew not to let "his guy" get rattled early and to let him sit and learn for awhile.

Now that he has "his guy" in there we will see what happens from here, just like Reid has "his guy".

Yes and thankfully Reid has a history of admitting if his guy is the wrong guy.

LMAO Strong butthurt. I'm sorry we don't have more gay bars.

Then develop your QBoTF if it isn't Smith, and enjoy winning seasons until you do. (if so sure Smith can't get you all the way)

All this misdirected anger at the Smith fans or Smith himself is a joke. You want to be pissed off? Be pissed off at your GM and HC for deciding that Alex CAN win it all for you. 4321

You are spending your days whining and battling KC supporters and then claim OTHERS are the butthurt ones? http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/u...___by_auge.gif

Well there you go. I'm glad I'm able to ease you worries about guys hurting you in the past. Remember, it's not easy but if you keep dwelling in it your emotion will take over and reality will become blurred. We don't want that to happen, you might hurt yourself or someone. Look at the positive things that you can do today and free yourself from the past. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the "present".

We all can have a better day today if you treat it like a present given to you, be happy about it and don't be the guy to bring everyone else down because you are not happy with the gift you were given.

See signature.

They got shit. Probably before you jumped on the band wagon here.

KC supporters? It's 49er jerkoffs that very few want here anyways. I'm just a soldier for the cause :D

Haven't you learned? My kid even knows this...

"You get what you get and you don't throw a fit."

They teach it in daycare and kindergarden.

No. You are a butthurt pussy that just wants to resist the success that Reid and Co. are bringing you. All because? Things didn't go your way.

you = :deevee:


Quit being a disgruntled pussy and just enjoy the ride. Life's too short to hang onto such bitterness and rectal bleeding.

So let me get this straight. The bad W-L record you have the audacity to look at all of the factors on the team that contributed to that bad record. But the good WL record, you completely abandon that analysis?


:banghead:

**** yeah! That 2-0 record with a win over the Jags and a 1 point win at home over a medicore team. Let the good times roll baby! We went from suck to average!

Meanwhile Manuel is orchestrating game winning TD drives in the final minute of a game while our #1 overall pick RT is getting his ass handed to him like a 9ers fan in this thread. No reason to be upset, none at all.

I know I was entertained watching a game that was basically over at halftime, followed by a struggle against a mediocre team. Best $200 not spent.

Tonight should be fun though, and next week as well. Well, not in this thread, but on TV.

I have been gone for a while, and not seen this thread develop. Can someone give me the bullet points, as I am not trying to read all 300 pgs. Particularly, what is the suggested alternative to Alex Smith. Cassel? Geno Smith? I am happy with 34td to 10int since week 1 2011.

It beats the hell out of last year, but I've seen this before. It looks early similar to MartyBall(Pre Joe) only instead of 3 yards and a cloud of dust it's a short passing game. Don't beat yourself by turning it over, play solid defense and special teams, beat the shit teams and average teams when at home lose to the good teams.

How you guys are getting that the cowboys are a mediocre team is beyond me. I'm guessing it makes your argument sound better, but that's absolutely a good team.

It's a top 5 type offense with a better than average defense

Pam Oliver's Forehead has had that stat up for a while. (Anyone know where there is an easily retrievable database to compare quarterbacks, without going through each QBs record, game by game, season by season?)

I was looking at Peyton Mannings record from last season:

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...gs?season=2012

I count 5 games where the other team scored 24 points or more.

Peyton's record in that situation from 2012 is 1 win, 4 losses, including the loss in the playoffs.

He did better in 2010:

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...gs?season=2010

I count 4 wins and 6 losses when the other team scored 24 points or more.

Even better in 2009:

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...gs?season=2010

3 wins and 2 losses.

2008:

3 wins, 3 losses.

2007:

2 wins, 2 losses, including the playoffs.

12 and 13, total for those years.

Of course, that is Peyton Manning, one of the best of all time. Let's look at someone a bit more ordinary.

Big Ben, for example.

2012:

http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethli...gs?season=2012

0 wins, 5 losses when the other team scored 24 points or more.

2011:

0 wins, 2 losses when the other team scored 24 points or more, including the playoffs.

2010:

1 and 1

2009:

3 and 2

2008:

1 and 2, including the playoffs.

2007:

2 and 5, including the playoffs.

7 and 17 total for those years.

So, let's just say it's not all that unusual to lose when your opponent puts up 24 points or more.

Now, of course, 2-27-1 is obviously quite a bit worse that 7-17, but you also have to consider that that is a career stat, including his rookie year, the team coming off of a 2-14 season, 2007 when he was playing with a separated shoulder, the golden years of Jimmy Raye, etc.

Matt Ryan was 3 and 3 last season.

Matt Schaub was 3 and 4 last season.

Vick was 0 and 11 last season. 0 and 7 in 2011.

Alex is fine as a stop gap, the concern is the Chiefs go all in on him as if he is a true franchise QB.

That was not even CLOSE to the same saints defense.
Vilma was out, Sedrick Ellis was out. Tracy Porter was gone.

You are delusional. Not to mention that they didn't have Sean Payton, or Gregg Williams. Please, tell some more funny stories.

I really wish you could come to grips with reality. That your TALENT, is all on your defense. Your best offensive player cant even get going despite the fact that last year he had 1500 rushing on the team with the worst qb situation in football.

Reality is really hard to accept.

Couldn't agree more, but there wasn't a qb worth drafting this year, at least not without shuffling the entire draft order. So what is everyone bitching about? Who do they want?

Ellis is a bust, and Porter is a Jag. Not identical, but it's not like they were playing like they were during their SB run.

The prevailing opinion TODAY is that it should of been a no brainer to take Ej Manuel. Although the Bills were so excited to take him, that instead of drafting him 8th where they were originally, they decided to happily drop to 16th to grab him.

You nailed why. Dallas is looking pretty good this season on both sides of the ball.

The glorified QB of choice seems to have been Geno, but now is shifting towards that Bills rookie whose name eludes me at the moment.

Lots of misery and gloom, despite the 2-0 start. Each week, the next premise = "meh, let's see how they do the next week... we are still likely not going anywhere, and would have been better off drafting Geno or ____ at 1.1 and developing him into a stud VS some other scrub veteran."

... of which, I disagree with altogether.

Wut?

So you wouldn't trade Fisher for Manuel right now? I know Buffalo wouldn't make that deal.

Having no Sean Payton, nor Greg Williams, hurt that team more than anything else.

have you noticed how much better that defense looks THIS YEAR?

Sean Payton is back, and they got a real d coordinator. Their talent is very much the same......

Your witness.

BAM. I even beat you to your excuse!!!!

You should definitely start the ALEX VS EJ ITS ON THREAD!!!!!

Check this out...

Upset 9er fan - We're 1 - 1, let's see we had to come back and win against GB and barely win at home. Last year Alex beat them in Lambeau. In week 2 we got destroyed again by the Seahawks. Alex was 3 - 0 against them with this team and coaching staff. We went to the Super Bowl last year, we won't get there if it the road there has to go through Seattle!

Meanwhile Alex is 2 - 0 and is 100% in the red zone has 4 TDs 0 ints with a rating of 94.7 on a team that was 2-14 last year. Got Dammit no reason to be upset, none at all.

Guys are paid 7 figures to get it right, but too many times they play it "safe" and **** up. A lot of teams in the top 10 blew it. Jax, Raidas, Browns :D, etc.. Real stellar teams there.

It's before your time, but myself and most Geno guys just wanted a QB at #1. This is nothing "after the fact". Go ahead, use the "search function".

One day Tony Romo and the Dallas Cowboys went to Kansas City and were all like "yes! were going to beat the chiefs like a bunch of bitches". Then the Chiefs D dominated, and Jerry Jones and all the bundle of sticks cowboy fans were sad and made excuses about why their team sucks big d.

LMAO

As a 49er fan this is when Alex comes out and flops. He likes to keep this going. He will flop this week and come out and play spectacular next week. Rinse and repeat. Soon he will have 10 wins, but people will still hate him because just when they decide to give him a chance he comes out and plays poorly. Then he plays well for a couple weeks and it happens again.

Dude is cursed.

I don't want to pay a #16 guy #1 money

I get it. I do. But hindsight is always 20/20.

hell, I know for sure. While I was pissed at the browns for drafting Weeden, at the moment he was drafted, I wasn't PISSED BECAUSE IT WASNT WILSON, I was pissed because it wasn't STEPHEN HILL, the receiver for the jets.

I know how it is. I just hate these 20/20 things. My cowboy brother in law, cant help but always bitch and moan how the the Cowboys drafted Felix jones instead of Mendenhall, or Forte.