How you gonna hate on a man who played such a key role in our 2019 SB run? Much like Sammy Watkins, he'll always be coo' in my book, no matter how his time with us ends.

Not as long as Wylies bundle of sticks ass is around.

I agree. I still think he offers something positive for the team. He is a big reason got a ring.

Niemann?

No shit. Freaking imbeciles

NIEMANN!!!

It was one year/postseason. Not like the guy has bee. A lifelong Chief. Plus I am not big on sentiment. Sorry.

The bottom line is it is time to move on and guy is ridiculously overpaid.

NFL is a what have you don't for me lately league. You can appreciate what someone did in the past while resenting them for what they're doing lately. Especially when they're getting paid $25+ mil to do it.

Now is NOT the time to move.

Next offseason is the time to move on. And they will.

In the mean time, he has underperformed his deal in the regular season, for sure. He has been a playmaker in the postseason and was part of a culture/mindset change that was much needed.

I doubt Spags agrees with you.

I hope Tim Ward continues to be productive. We need him.

Right that's what I meant. After the season it is time to move on.. there is not much Chiefs can do at this point.

True w attitude change and playoff performance - the trade wasn't a total disaster.

Any news on Clark? Is he healthy?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...string-injury/

Nobody cares. He's not important to us winning.

Agree. The only way he's a factor is if the extra motivation in a contract year leads to an uptick. Also think Jones, Danna, Reed and the others will give us more push than we had with him anyway.

Injured or not I can see his snaps reducing, maybe that helps too. Otherwise the positive is we have a big slab of money next year to share around to players that continue to perform, or FAs.

It's time for him to be regulated to special teams only. We need to see some of our young bloods making plays at the LB position.

It's both oddly reassuring and disappointing that this is absolutely true about one of our most highly paid players.

I'm pretty high on Ward, to be honest. So is the team if they cut Taco that early. Jonesy is looking like a DPOY candidate. Danna is solid. The interior of Nnadi, Reed, Wharton, and Saunders all look like good players. Kaindoh may contribute as the season goes on, but he's pretty raw. Still the talent is there.

I think we're in excellent shape.

Can we add or change the thread title to “Frank Clark is ****ing irrelevant”?

It would be nice if Tim Ward and Kaindoh develop this year and put some good stuff on tape so they feel comfortable moving on.

I doubt Kaindoh is going to do much but I want to see what Ward can do against starters

Me too.

He looked good week 17 against the Chargers' starters.

He flat abuses second team guys.

I'm optimistic. But I usually am.

I think if Kaindoh just gets a few opportunities to see real NFL game speed itll be good for his long term development. He looked decent reading runs both too and away from him against 2s and 3s. But some real deal looks couldnt hurt him.

Mike Danna already makes Clark expendable. He looks to be every bit as good, outside of a three game stretch on our super bowl run.

Still.

Honey badger, get in Clarks face and tell him he's stealing your money.

I can't believe this thread went 4,000+ posts with people defending Clark. Sports fandom is a crazy thing.

Well, except for the part were Danna isn't nearly as good.:rolleyes:

Value wise he's like 50x better.

Beat up OL, and still no sacks and absolutely gashed by the run.
Would a JAG be worse?

The Raiders obliterated that DL

How do you figure? He got his ass kicked all game long. Did he actually make a play? He certainly didn't do anything vs. the run.

Frank should try to get a patent on whatever he's done to make himself totally invisible.

Guy is ****ing awful.

This team has a lot of dead weight. Clark ****ing sucks.

He makes UDFA money. Clark is the highest paid player this year IIRC. Their play shouldn't even be comparable. Villanueva was literally the worst tackle in football last week. Looked all world against Clark.

Frank Clark still sucks and here's something to trigger a bunch of little bitches, his playoff/SB sacks were easy as **** and only 1 was important.

I like how he tested it on himself for a couple of years and decided to give it to the rest of the D line today.

95 can’t do it alone, expect Veach to attack that like a demon for 2022… this D line WILL get a full makeover

I get the lack of pass rush, but the run gashing shouldn’t be happening

You cant say this without a certain poster screaming at you about how every player the Chiefs have is good and Veach is the best GM but the truth is hes got alot of expensive dead weight on the defensive side of the ball (Clark & Hitchens) guys like Niemann have no business being on the roster.

Frank Clark is currently the lowest graded ED per PFF.

34.9 - 99 out of 99 ranked players

He has also the highest cap hit of any ED in 2021 at 25.8 M.

Just doing his job, man.

Yesterday, Clark looked like he put on about 20 lbs of fat in the off-season.

Nothing to worry about a mysterious mid season illness will take care of that.

Don't go pay DE's without elite measurables and the play to back it up. High motor guys like Clark, dont' end up being difference makers

Too bad the legal system is so ****ing slow. Could've flushed this turd and gotten a third world countrys GDP in cap savings.

Yeah, had a pretty noticable gut.

Told you. He's chub.

He’s absolute garbage at this point. Certainly isn’t bringing the energy anymore like he did during the Super Bowl year and he is playing worse than I ever thought possible.

He cannot be off this roster fast enough.

It seems like Clark has given up on going for one last payday. I was hoping he'd come in motivated this year.

May be why his play has declined even further. Knows with the felony charges and his play recently it's his last year of making significant money from us and almost definitely any other team so he's mentally checked out.

Clark, Reed and Jones (at DE) sucking is not good.

Clark had a nice TFL last night which makes him the MVP of the DL

It's easier when they elect not to block you.

Jackson messed up the read and left his RB out to dry.

You do understand the blocking scheme in read option, right?

The same people patting themselves on the back for not wanting Clark wanted Clowney and that dude is a turd as well ROFL

Read the end, yes. The QB is responsible for dealing with the unblocked man through his pitch/keep decision.

When the end doesn't crash, why are you pitching it wide? RB is a sitting duck at that point. You pitch it if/when the end commits - Clark didn't.

Looked to me like Jackson needed to take it up the middle when Clark didn't come upfield.

Clowney cost $29 million over 3 seasons and a 3rd round pick + some roster chaff.

Clark cost $65 million over those same 3 seasons + a first and second round pick.

This really the argument you want to make?

Came to the podium after loss and took questions.

Ideally you don't do either of those trades, but I'd still take Clark over Clowney even with those parameters based on the hindsight of Clark actually being a key contributor to the Super Bowl run. Clowney just seems like an even shittier DE version of Hammy Twatkins

Also based on the fact that if we hadn't traded that 2019 pick we most likely pick one of the shitty DL from the bottom of that first round based on all our draft visits. Or the degenerate CB we ended up with anyway.

I said when we made the trade (and even when he was dog-shit into November of '19) that flags fly forever and if Clark was instrumental in a SB, it's hard to call the trade a failure.

But right now, if I could trade Clark for Clowney, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Straight player for player I'd probably still take Clowney and when you factor in their respective contracts and cap hits, it's not a close question.

Last year was a wash at best. Clowney was better when he was on the field, but he wasn't on the field enough (as is his custom). Then again, I'm not sure what Clark actually provided when he was.

I mean the only benefit Frank Clark has provided this team was a 6 week stretch (ish) at the end of 2019. We could argue just how critical he was in 'closing' wins that were largely decided by the time the sack in question happened (two of which were coverage sacks), but every play counted in the Super Bowl and he made one. So that makes the deal a 'win' in the same way Watkins deal was a win - a bad acquisition in a vacuum that was made palatable by a championship.

Clark is bad. He's been bad for awhile. Injury, motivation, diet - whatever. He's just a bad football player and there's little indication that this is going to change anytime soon.

Maybe.

But I remember one of 'The Franchise' episodes where Veach seemed really high on Rock Ya-Sin and CB was another clear need at the time, coming off the AFCCG debacle.

Wouldn't have surprised me if he was the pick. He's been...fine. But the fact that we took Hardman where we did also puts in the back of my mind that maybe AJ Brown would've been the guy and that one stings.

Frank and Chris both getting raped over the coals today on CP.

We are stuck with Tyson Jackson and Eric Hicks at DE again.

Nah.

Chris Jones will fix his shit. He's going to be good out there.

He just couldn't tell which way was up by the 2nd quarter. He'll learn from it.

He deserves criticism for a shit game - it was as bad an effort as you'll see. But that's not who he is going forward or who he's been in the past. He's an elite talent and that will surface as the season goes along.

We were looking for someone to replicate Hill. While I would've been happy with Brown, he doesn't exactly fit that mold

Yes when one helped win a title and the other is completely useless

Other than being fast, neither does Mecole.

Nobody replicates Hill.

That was the mistake they made - thinking they could replicate a unicorn. I said it at the time - if they think they're losing Hill, the answer isn't to replace Hill, it's to re-think their approach. Because Hill is on a HOF career arc, you don't just replace that.

And you don't even find a reasonable facsimile for a guy like that. It's like thinking Noah Gray can replace Travis Kelce if he gets hurt. He can't. If Kelce goes down, you can't just plug Gray in and say 'close enough...'

You'll have to do things differently. And that's why they shouldn't have been looking for a Hill replacement, they should've been looking for the best possible WR they could've gotten their hands on.

I understand why they did what they did - I just don't think they should've done it.

Damn so you dont think Veach went for the best WR rather one who could replicate Hills game? Even though it's been reported Veach felt pretty confident with the whole Hill situation at the time. Regardless this is a pretty big deal if this is how Veach was thinking with his drafting.

I mean....I kinda hope that's what he did.

Because if he really thought Mecole Hardman offered the best possible WR on the board at the time....yikes.

I mean I'll accept "Veach felt like he needed a genuine speed threat to keep the field open for Kelce/Watkins going forward". It's a justification that makes sense anyway. I don't like the thought process, but it's not facially absurd.

But "Brett Veach thought Mecole Hardman was a better overall WR prospect than Terry McLaurin and DK Metcalf...."

Well like I said, that's a yikes. That's a BAD read if that's how he saw it. That's a seriously flawed 'decision lens' for a guy who's not exactly showing a superb eye for WR talent right now.

I mean look at the wealth of WR talent the Chiefs could've had during Veach's tenure. JuJu, Kupp, Godwin, Golladay, Gallup, Kirk, Sutton, Brown, Metcalf, Brown, McLaurin, Johnson, Claypool, Higgins, Mooney, Davis...

There's been a TON of WR talent go off the board in the last few years. I'm not sure your 'hope' here is actually the preferred alternative. I'd rather wrong-headed thinking than just a bad eye for talent.

Hmm I dont know. To think you could replicate Tyreek Hill even in what was that 19'? Is pretty damn delusional. I could see the thinking that Hardman COULD be a better players than those mentioned with some polishing but cloning Reek who's a once in a generation athlete?

I'm glad we're finally putting Veach in the crosshairs. There was so much blowing smoke up his arse in the offseason it got weird.

His first round draft picks have been effectively Clark, Brown and CEH, but Clark without the rookie contract as well. That's not looking great. The argument that he was instrumental in the SB win I get but I'd take the counterfactual all day that those players that have been consistently better throughout their careers would have had just as great, if not greater, impact on helping the team win a SB. And the difference might've been them not being a massive deadweight for the rest of their time.

I'm not sure building a legacy is done by bringing in one extremely expensive hired gun for one year's playoff performances.

The Reed signing and Jones move to DE I can't bitch about because I liked the latter part of the equation. But it looks more likely to make us poor in two positions now.

I don't think all Veach's picks and moves have been duds, but there more questionable ones out there now.

Generational talents don’t disappear in prime time games like Reek did Sunday. It’s crazy that so many people have been passing the blame around, but I haven’t seen his name mentioned yet. He should have feasted against a banged up Baltimore secondary.

If teams blanket you with coverage, you don't get open and Mahomes should be looking to other guys running wide open rather than forcing it to Hill. Hill gets no blame in my book and deserves credit for the long Kelce, Pringle, and Robison TDs.

Tyreek is a special case. He requires a double team on essentially every play. When Reek only logs 3 catches for 14 yards as long as he has no drops, fumbles or penalties, I don't have a problem with it. That means he was drawing two defenders on every play, which should leave Kelce or one of these other scrubs with a prime 1-on-1 matchup.

They even talked about it during the game. Teams have mostly been playing with 2 safeties over the top against us to limit the big play and that is almost entirely due to Hill's skillset. No one is playing cover 2 because of Kelce, Robinson, Pringle or even Hardman.

Mecole was a classic Andy Reid prototype. Metcalf was straight line fast but horrendously slow laterally (remember his 3 cone?).

I think Andy didn’t want Metcalf bc he had seen someone similar in Conley with those issues which limited YAC.

And yeah Terry McLauren is great but keep in mind he was a 3rd rd pick. Everyone passed on him multiple times

DK was hurt during the combine.

Any player - ANY player - can be removed from a gameplan if the opposing coach commits to it. Belichick has always insisted on removing Kelce from the gameplan and as a rule he has succeeded.

The Ravens weren't going to let Hill beat them. They had people blanketing him all day. That was a big part of Kelce and the secondary WR options having good days.

^ Must of committed to removing our defense with their game plan.