I thought I'd read he had a disappointing Senior Bowl...

He had his pro day yesterday and put up some all-time good numbers.

Of course, a few guys in this class have done that. It's a really good class for developmental tackles. We just really need to hit on one that can play early as well.

This is why I don't think they sit around for a LT. They're gonna trade away something to go up and get one that can play right away.

I'd imagine Cosmi suits their eye.

LT Williams is the big miss. Other than that, it's whatever on types of players that are available every year in FA.

At this point, that would be my favorite scenario. And props to you, you've been talking about trading up and getting an LT for some time now.

This is just not true.
Did you want Veach to pay him 6 yrs 145 Million to come here at 32 years old?
The answer to me is hell no. Veach did the right thing in not overpaying like the 49ers just did.

Cosmi would be my 1b choice. Highest upside for the lowest cost. My 1a right now would be Walker Little because I think he can start right away without having to trade anything for him.

But let's make no mistake. Neither of those guys Darrisaw or Sewell or Slater. They still may not be a day 1 starter.

As I've said all offseason, the only SURE way to do this is to trade WAY up and get one of the top three and that's just out of the question. It's too costly.

Obviously a huge need is to protect Mahomes no matter what happens with the rest of the team, so I expect LT to be addressed adequately.

However, beyond that is it possible that Veach just sees a possible down year as a likely outcome this year? It's no secret that Super Bowl losers often have a down year the following season.

I also don't think Veach is an idiot and I imagine he sees how the top heavy roster is constructed. We have as much talent at the top of the roster as anyone in the NFL, but from the middle of the roster down we are average at best. KC lacks depth and talent at a number of other positions.

Call me a Debbie Downer if you want and disagree with me if you see fit, but IMO Mahomes makes up for a lot of weaknesses on this roster. We still make the playoffs and might even make the AFCCG and Super Bowl if we have some luck in the postseason. But comparing our roster to that of TB or even LAR and I don't think we match up well aside from QB. Maybe Mahomes alone is enough to make up the difference, but I'm not sure.

If that's the case it may not be the end of the world to not go all in again this season. Do what you need to do to protect Mahomes, but beyond that it's not the end of the world if the team takes a small step back. We hopefully have Mahomes for another 15 years or more, we're not going to be the top team every year.

Focus on having a solid draft and do what we need to do to fill out the talent better throughout the roster. Veach was awful in the draft in 2018, slightly better in 2019, and pretty good in 2020. Let's hope that upward trend continues.

A down year for this team is going 11-5 and losing in the AFCCG.

I'll take that.

The ****ing Rams? Really?

The Bucs have a great roster because they drafted in teh top 10 for years on end and starting hitting on blue chippers.

Some god damn perspective is needed around here.

I'd probably start getting ready for them to do that. Veach isn't a singles hitter. They're gonna take big ****ing swings.

I"m not as opposed to going up to say, 12 to get Darrisaw as you, but it won't be cheap.

I completely agree. Unless Mahomes gets injured I don't see much worse than 9-7 ever happening, so a "down" year is relative for KC. Even New England didn't win the championship every year, but they were in the hunt at least every year. There were years when they were clearly the best team and still lost, and there were years when they seemed to be under the radar but eventually won it all. So who knows. I just don't think KC is clearly the best team in the NFL the way we felt they were the past 2 years. That's alright, it's inevitable.

I just hate that TB appears to be the team to beat right now. I hope Tom Brady gets AIDS.

LMAO :facepalm:

Just when you were starting to come off as a reasonable person you do this!

The same guy that was saying you can’t continue trading picks to fill needs is propping up the Rams as some team we have no change against. This is ****ing priceless. Their offseason is over. They’re already done.

Veach had just a “pretty good” draft in 2020?

LMAO

You’re a ****ing idiot.

It would be near crippling in terms of recovering from a mistake. We have a huge hole at LT. If we trade next year's 1st for a tackle and he doesn't pan out, we're in even worse shape in FA next year because we won't have a 1st round pick as a backup plan if we strike out in FA.

They went a couple years with out a first round pick. It's not crippling.

Their first rounders are gonna be in the 28-32 range for the foreseeable future. Trading those is gonna be an option every year.

They got blindsided and lost their LT. Thats not an easy spot to fill. They tried to pay a shitload for one and missed. They won't cheap out there.

They didn't have a massive hole at left tackle and one of those 1st round picks was traded for a QB, which is a far different position in terms of value than any other position on the field.

All offseasons are not equal. There is a time and place for trading away 1st round picks. Right now isn't one of them, especially if you're of the mind that the only good LT's are ones drafted in the 1st round.

Are you incapable of understanding nuance at all?

I'm not even complaining. I'm resigning to the possibility that this year may be a step back from prior years, relatively speaking. I'm fine with that. Is that alright with you? Am I an idiot for thinking that KC has some weaknesses that might prevent them from returning to the Super Bowl?

Do you see me bitching and complaining non-stop?

So now the issue is that I just Veach had a "pretty good" draft? Would it be better if I said he had a "good" draft, or a "great" draft?

So if my thinking is not 100% in line with how you see things I'm a "****ing idiot"?

They're using it to fill that massive hole at LT, which they view as a top 3 or so spot on teh team.

The best place to find a franchise LT is about the same as a QB. Early in the first round. If it takes 2 firsts to go get one, do it and don't look back.

You’re pretending to know what’s going to happen in Dec/Jan based on what’s happened in ****ing March. At the very least you’re feeling defeated based on what’s happened in ****ing free agency. Like that’s where championships are won! You’re contradicting yourself with the Rams thing like I pointed out. You had no problem calling Veach’s first draft terrible, but you describe his last one as “pretty good” when it was fantastic.

Yes, you’re a ****ing idiot.

This team could win 12 games with ____insert scrap heap vet at LT when you add in the rest of the OL and weapons.

No need to panic. Obviously we want more in the big games and in the playoffs and we will be adding more.

If we don't get Okung or Villanueva I expect us to circle back on the guys we cut as well as adding in the draft.

Their last two seasons have had times where their franchise star QB was laying on the ground with his kneecap on the side of his knee, his brain scrambled and wobbly and his toe ****ed up.

They're not gonna mess around at LT.

And all three of those injuries were not because of the offensive line.

Clearly, thats why they're completely reshaping the OL.....

And you have the emotional maturity of a five year old. You can't even converse on here without throwing insults at those who have a difference of opinion.

I'm not pretending to know what will happen in Dec/Jan at all. I very clearly said that they'll still make the playoffs, and very well could return to the AFCCG and maybe the Super Bowl with some luck.

I personally don't think we'd be favored in a matchup with TB or possibly several NFC teams. But yes, I may be wrong. It's March. People make wild ass guesses and opinions all the time. If I'm wrong I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

Of course not. They just went hard after Trent Williams, added Thuney and Long.

They aren't done. I doubt Veach is content yet.

They're using to POSSIBLY fill a hole at LT. There are no guarantees and missing puts us in a much worse position.

The drop off from one tackle to the next isn't steep enough to justify spending an additional 1st rounder. It's arguably don't steep enough to justify a trade up at all.

This team needs draft picks. They're in a position now where they need cheap, quality depth. They can't keep trading away picks like they have been or they going to have massive holes all over the roster.

The kneecap wasn't due to offensive line play. Neither was the head.

The toe was.

So let's not pretend the only reason Mahomes is getting hurt is because he's getting pounded because of a lack of protection. That's not the case.

Guys I’m not pretending to know what’s going to happen based on March, but the Chiefs would be “lucky” to get back to the SB at this point and if they do I just don’t see any chance they beat the Bucs or the Rams!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Whose ur source</p>&mdash; TY Hilton (@TYHilton13) <a href="https://twitter.com/TYHilton13/status/1374751403525210115?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So in other words, you want Chiefsplanet to be an echo chamber where everything is completely in agreement with how you think. If not those who dare disagree with your fragile ego are ****ing idiots.

You've got problems dude.

The fear here is that talent is drying up unless we trade major assets for a LT. Some folks don’t want to be “pigeon holed” into using 31 on a LT.

That’s quite the spot to be in

Obviously, they won't do it for just any LT prospect. IF they do it, they think it's their guy.

They need good players. They need a good LT and as we have seen, those aren't easy to come by.

There's no reason to be pigeon holed into anything. The Chiefs can take any number of players at 31 and be just fine. There's no reason for "fear" at all.

Trading major assets is the definition of "pigeon hole", not only this year but next year as well.

I'm not sure why people don't get that. Trading assets gives you LESS options, not more.

Then I guess we might as well prepare for them to not get one because they really don't have the assets to go get one.

The head wasn't directly caused, but...

The crappier the line, the more Mahomes uses his feet to make plays and exposes his head and body...

Whether you think it was or not, they're actions seem to say they feel it was/is.

He also got mangled in the Superdome this year and against the Bucs in the SB.

When they've played good defenses, they've kicked the OL's ass. Hence the offseason changes.

That play was a designed option run. There was no failure in protection, he would have been exposed no matter who was blocking.

Next years first and a third will get it done.

LMAO You did the same shit before they blew the OL to smithereens. "Guys, prepare to have Wylie be a starter next season. Veach won't use assets on the IOL. It's not going to happen."

Brett Veach:
https://j.gifs.com/vnzebz.gif

You're conflating two different things.

Patrick needs better protection to make the offense more efficient. Yes.

Patrick injury issues have very little to do with the offensive line play, however.

He's getting injured primarily due to play calling and terrible luck. He lost 5 weeks with an injury that I've never seen happen before in 30+ years of watching football - on a QB sneak.

It also allows you to get a prospect you think can fill a spot for the foreseeable future.

A spot thats just under QB in terms of importance for this offense to operate.

You want to trade this year's 1st, next year's first, and next year's 3rd for a CHANCE at a starting LT?

I'm so glad you're not a GM.

And if that prospect fails or gets injured, you have no means to replace him.

Sounds like a solid plan.

Why pivot when you can just veer off into the ditch...

You don't think them calling sprint out options on 3rd and short have anything to do with the OL?

In case you haven't noticed, this team still doesn't have a left tackle and people are ****ing SCARED because of it.

This board is laughably emotional. It's like Twitter for old men.

Literally nobody is saying that. This is 100% a strawman.

If you say something stupid, and I call you out on it, then defend your argument. I didn’t just call you stupid. I pointed out things like the Rams and Veach’s drafts, and you didn’t do a very good job of defending either. You actually ignored the part about the Rams, probably because it’s true and you don’t want to defend it.

And yes, saying you’re prepared for the Chiefs to take a step back in March when they aren’t even remotely done is ****ing stupid and defeatist attitude.

That doesn’t mean I want this place to be an echo chamber. I want you to be able to say your stupid shit. I didn’t say you shouldn’t be allowed to. If I cared that much, I’d put you on ignore.

Do you think them calling QB sneaks does?

Yeah. I'd imagine our GM would as well.

Stop overvaluing the end of the first round picks.

You sound like the old "don't trade up for a QB, it's too risky" guys here man.

If they evaluate and think the LT is worth it, go for it. The value of having that spot locked down is worth more than those picks.

Two decades and running strong of "what just happened will now happen forever if we don't do something about it!"

The Chiefs tried to pay a 33 year old the most money ever for a LT.

I'd say they're a bit scared too?

I'm not against trading up for a QB.

I am against trading up for anything less than a blue chip LT.

In this draft, two 1st's MIGHT get us into that mix. MIGHT.

I'm not trading two 1st's for a maybe.

We will find out in a month or so how Veach views it.

Scared?

ROFL

For sure.

I'm not necessarily saying I'd do it, I haven't a clue how they eval any of these LT"s.

I'm just saying if they think getting to 12 gets them a guy that can be what they want at LT, do it.

I don't see how aggressively pursuing the best option in free agency at one of your most glaring positions of need = being scared. For better or worse, that's been Veachs M.O. ever since he took over as GM.

If my options were Russell Okung or a 2nd round rookie at LT to protect my half billion dollar QB's backside I might be a bit scared.

Based on what? They were easily the best AFC team even with a makeshift line and no Watkins or CEH.

I'd be shocked if the line they put together isn't significantly better than the one they ended the year with.

Ok, scared is probably the wrong word.

Concerned that LT is a big issue?

That was sarcasm because it’s essentially what OKchiefs is saying.

Ah....didn't have any context.

We did this for Patrick Mahomes and Frank Clark and the team is fine.

This team has holes right bc of horrible injuries and a complete failure of a 2018 draft.

I don’t see the problem here. Last years rookie class brought us a TON of flexibility. I think with Spags the defensive personnel has upgraded significantly with value picks. Sneed, Fenton, Danna, Thornhill, Wharton. My God what a goddamn surplus. And that’s not even counting Gay, who (like Niang) I think can be a serviceable starter at worst.

If you see a guy you think is a LT of the future, get him. Yes you’re out a first and third rd picks, but you literally have a ton of money coming free.

We would be able to sign multiple blue chippers if we want next FA period and can effectively get money back from Clark at that point.

Trading up for a QB that you think is a franchise player is always worth it. Mahomes cannot be compared to a left tackle.

Frank Clark was an established as well as young player. If we were trading firsts for Orlando Brown, for example, that would be similarly palatable.

You're talking about trading a future first for an unknown that isn't a QB. That's an extremely risky proposition. It doesn't often work out for a myriad of reasons and it almost never works out when your doing it for need instead of trying to grab a game changing player.

And by the way, I find it ironic that you're saying we can just sign blue chippers next FA period. We have money RIGHT NOW and haven't hit on anybody but Joe Thuney, with you being one of the most vocal critics. So for some reason, this offseason is stacking up to be a failure but next offseason is going to be a magical buffet of blue chip free agents? Come on man, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Well I’d say definitely concerned about who’s going to protect their franchise investment

Of course they know there's a deficiency that they need to correct.

But senior executives in big corporations don't get to where they are operating on emotions like fear.

And these are NFL people, the pinnacle of American sports. They most certainly don't operate on fear - in many cases, their egos don't even allow for fear.

"Scared" was a poor choice of words.

when your doing it for need instead of trying to grab a game changing player.


Uh? Wut? The idea of trading up for one of the elite LT prospects is having a much better chance at a game changing player.

What’s the worst that happens? A LT fails and we’re...where we are now? I think it’s actually more risk to count on a 2nd rd LT prospect.

And no I think this FA period is an outlier. It’s clear that the cap is going to explode but not until next year. This year players seem hesitant to leave unless they have to bc they’re scared of missing out on their paydays next year.

Players like Juju understand the scheme and are being risk averse to put themselves in a position to succeed in an environment they are very familiar with.

We're not where we are now if we don't have a 1st round pick next year. That's the whole entire point.

And I never suggested a 2nd round LT prospect. I have no qualms with drafting one at 31 or even trading up into the early 20's.

My appetite stops when next year's 1st rounder is involved.

If we wanted to, we could go sign Okung or Villanueva right now. We want something much better. We didn’t cut a middle of the road LT to replace him with a middle of the road LT.

And likely at the end of the first out of reach of LT prospects.

Ahh so I knock down OKchiefs strawman and force him to defend his stupid ****ing takes and he stops replying.

Go figure!

You're trading away what could be two elite prospects for the CHANCE at one.

The draft is already enough like the lottery and you want to make it moreso.

Elite prospects at the end of the first round?

He owned you bro

It all depends on who is available. But if two low firsts and a low third gets you someone who projects to be your starting left tackle they will do that deal in a heart beat. Problem is that compensation is not enough to get either of the projected top two tackles in the draft. Might not get the projected number 3 tackle... So yeah probably not going to work.

Let's just say we could spend this year's first and next year's first and get Darrisaw. Or we could spend this year's first and this year's 3rd to get Cosmi.

Do you think Darrisaw's ability to be a "sure thing" is THAT much more than Cosmi's? Because if either of them turns out to be a bust, you're right back here next year.

In the 2nd scenario, you still have the ammo to trade up for a guy you'll like.

In the first, you can only sit and do nothing. You're done in the 2021 draft because you don't have a 1st round pick.

This is exactly my point.

Yeah, sorry, but two late first rounders isn't that much of a price to me if Reid and Veach identify what they believe to be a LTOTF and go up to get him.

thats the way we see it.

It all depends on who’s available in that 12-20 range.

This is a strong OT draft but we need to dig in a little deeper to see how many do the following...

ability needed to pass protect on an island against the games best
athletic ability to move in space on screens, misdirection and perimeter runs
The strength at the POA to drive runs to his side and handle bull rushes

Just because there are a lot of OTs, doesn’t mean there are a lot of OTs we feel fit what we want from the position.

If they did that, they won't be looking for a LT for a few years, whatever happens. THey won't declare the guy a bust after 1 year.

Or I actually have a job, and while I am working from home and do have a bit more time to spend on here I can't spend 10 hours a day on Chiefsplanet like you seem to do.