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-   -   Football HOF & 3 Coaches (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=212194)

Amnorix 08-19-2009 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 5985246)
Many RBs over the last decade fall into the same group and most of them are not Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders type of players - those are legit HOF RBs.

George, Watters, Bettis, Lewis, Barber, Portis, Taylor... they're all great RBs, but neither of them really stands out much from the other. So, I think all or none get in... and the same goes with WRs.

I think Irvin was a great WR, but I don't know that he's any more qualified than Rod Smith or even Jimmy Smith for the HOF. Many will say "he has rings", so does Rod... and each of them was considered one of the best of his era for a number of years.
I agree -- they're all out.

IMHO there's waaaay too much focus on skill position players in the NFL HOF anyway, and the standards for them are too loose to begin with.

Demonpenz 08-19-2009 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman's Veer (Post 5985333)
I think Law should be separated out of that group and evaulated individually. He has as good of a case as Vinatieri and Dillon.

Law is a five-time Pro Bowler and two-time All-Pro.

He has 52 career interceptions and has the seventh most INTs return for TDs.

Not saying he's going to get in the HOF soon, but I could see him getting in 30-40 years down the road by the Veterans Committee.

I could certainly see him make the cut to the list of 25 semi-finalists. I don't see that happening with the group you mentioned above.
30-40 years down the road? football probably won't exist. THe Running man will be the only game humans play and watch

Amnorix 08-19-2009 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeoman's Veer (Post 5985333)
I think Law should be separated out of that group and evaulated individually. He has as good of a case as Vinatieri and Dillon.

Law is a five-time Pro Bowler and two-time All-Pro.

He has 52 career interceptions and has the seventh most INTs return for TDs.

Not saying he's going to get in the HOF soon, but I could see him getting in 30-40 years down the road by the Veterans Committee.

I could certainly see him make the cut to the list of 25 semi-finalists. I don't see that happening with the group you mentioned above.
Law was very good. I don't see him getting into the HOF, partly due to the unfair position distribution of the HOF.

DaKCMan AP 08-19-2009 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5985452)
Law was very good. I don't see him getting into the HOF, partly due to the unfair position distribution of the HOF.
Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.

Mile High Mania 08-19-2009 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 5985469)
Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.
Corey Dillon much like many of the other RBs didn't do much to stand out.

I think the key theme through most of this thread is that the "bar" needs to be raised when measuring HOF greatness.

CoMoChief 08-19-2009 02:11 PM
God I hate Emmtt Smiff

Amnorix 08-19-2009 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 5985469)
Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.
Maybe. There are, count 'em, 20 defensive backs in the Hall of Fame, total. That's cornerbacks AND safeties. Twenty.

And alot of guys ahead of Law on the INTs list aren't in.


<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=stathead><TD colSpan=3>Interception Leaders</TD></TR><TR class=colhead><TD>RK</TD><TD>PLAYER</TD><TD align=right>INT</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>1</TD><TD>Paul Krause</TD><TD align=right width=75>81</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50>2</TD><TD>Emlen Tunnell</TD><TD align=right width=75>79</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>3</TD><TD>Rod Woodson</TD><TD align=right width=75>71</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50>4</TD><TD>Dick Lane</TD><TD align=right width=75>68</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>5</TD><TD>Ken Riley</TD><TD align=right width=75>65</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50>6</TD><TD>Ronnie Lott</TD><TD align=right width=75>63</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>7</TD><TD>Dave Brown</TD><TD align=right width=75>62</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Dick LeBeau</TD><TD align=right width=75>62</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>9</TD><TD>Emmitt Thomas</TD><TD align=right width=75>58</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50>10</TD><TD>Mel Blount</TD><TD align=right width=75>57</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Bobby Boyd</TD><TD align=right width=75>57</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Johnny Robinson</TD><TD align=right width=75>57</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Everson Walls</TD><TD align=right width=75>57</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Eugene Robinson</TD><TD align=right width=75>57</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>15</TD><TD>Lem Barney</TD><TD align=right width=75>56</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Pat Fischer</TD><TD align=right width=75>56</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50>17</TD><TD>Aeneas Williams</TD><TD align=right width=75>55</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50>18</TD><TD>DARREN SHARPER</TD><TD align=right width=75>54</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Darrell Green</TD><TD align=right width=75>54</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Willie Brown</TD><TD align=right width=75>54</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD width=50></TD><TD>Eric Allen</TD><TD align=right width=75>54</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltim...?cat=intercept

Valiant 08-19-2009 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5984781)
The Pro Bowl / All-Pro voters would disagree.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...n/all-pros.htm

Reeves coached Denver from '81-92. Were there a bunch of other HOFers? No. But there was very solid talent.

Belichick has dominated the NFL for years with one all-world QB and a bunch of "very solid talent" that isn't likely to get into the HOF either. Seymour, maybe. Vinatieri, maybe. Moss, obviously, but none of the SBs involved him (yet).
Wow there are more defenders on that list then I thought during the 80's... Someone just told me the only reason they did not win the superbowls in the 80's was defense.. huh...

Valiant 08-19-2009 02:13 PM
IMO, Marty should not make it in.. The playoff record alone should keep him out..

Amnorix 08-19-2009 02:14 PM
Here's your list of DBs in the HOF.

Defensive Backs (20)
Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989
Paul Krause (S) 1964-1979
Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994
Willie Wood (S) 1960-1971
Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976
Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978
Larry Wilson (S) 1960-1972
Darrell Green (CB) 1983-2002
Emmitt Thomas (CB) 1966-1978
Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977
Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983
Jack Christiansen (S) 1951-1958
Ken Houston (S) 1967-1980
Dick (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965
Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977
Emlen Tunnell (S) 1948-1961
Rod Woodson 1987-2003
Yale Lary (S) 1952-1953, 1956-1964
Roger Wehrli 1969-1982
Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972

Brock 08-19-2009 02:25 PM
Chuck Knox goes in before Marty. Since Levy went in, so should Reeves.

DaKCMan AP 08-19-2009 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5985553)
Maybe. There are, count 'em, 20 defensive backs in the Hall of Fame, total. That's cornerbacks AND safeties. Twenty.

And alot of guys ahead of Law on the INTs list aren't in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltim...?cat=intercept
Dick LeBeau should be in already, but will eventually. Aeneas Williams will probably get in before Ty Law is eligible.

Rain Man 08-19-2009 04:52 PM
I've got some past thread as proof, but I'm a proponent of the thought that entry to the Hall of Fame should be proportional to the number of positions. You should have twice as many CBs as QBs, twice as many DEs as C's, etc. Why is the best punter in the history of the NFL (shut up, Baugh-backers) not in the Hall of Fame? It's silly.

Guys like Everson Walls and Kenny Easley and yes, Deron Cherry, should go into the Hall of Fame if they're at the top 2 or 3 percent in their position more so than a QB who's in the top 10 percent or so.

With coaches, I guess one could make the argument about what they did with the players given to them if they're not also the GM, but coach and GM are the only positions where I think championships matter. Players don't have control over who their teammates and systems are. Coaches do (or at least have input), and GMs do.

Chiefnj2 08-19-2009 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 5985888)
I've got some past thread as proof, but I'm a proponent of the thought that entry to the Hall of Fame should be proportional to the number of positions. You should have twice as many CBs as QBs, twice as many DEs as C's, etc. Why is the best punter in the history of the NFL (shut up, Baugh-backers) not in the Hall of Fame? It's silly.

Guys like Everson Walls and Kenny Easley and yes, Deron Cherry, should go into the Hall of Fame if they're at the top 2 or 3 percent in their position more so than a QB who's in the top 10 percent or so.

With coaches, I guess one could make the argument about what they did with the players given to them if they're not also the GM, but coach and GM are the only positions where I think championships matter. Players don't have control over who their teammates and systems are. Coaches do (or at least have input), and GMs do.
The best punter should be in the HOF. Best special teams player as well. It's a big part of the game. It's silly not to recognize them. Charles Haley should get in as well.

Halfcan 08-19-2009 04:58 PM
screw all of them-they are not HOF worthy


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