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OnTheWarpath15 03-07-2010 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6585550)
For the record, I'm giving Tamba Hali and Matt Cassel a pass in that list of needs.

I absolutely believe those are positions of need, but that is another debate entirely.
I'm giving Hali a pass, I'm looking for a Vrabel replacement.

And Cassel gets no such pass.

milkman 03-07-2010 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6585547)
QB
RB2
WR2
WR3
C
RG
RT
NT
ILB (x2)
OLB
FS
SS

And that's just starters that desperately need to be upgraded. (Obviously not counting RB2)
Damn, I even forgot about RB2.

DeezNutz 03-07-2010 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6585550)
Matt Cassel a pass in that list of needs.
Your accuracy is as impressive as Cassel's.

Mr. Laz 03-07-2010 07:28 PM
if you are in a long rebuild this it's perfectly acceptable to sign a veteran RB because of that position's short shelf life.

drafting a big time running back is something you do when you are just about ready to make a real push.

Micjones 03-07-2010 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6585537)
Well, let me think about this for a second.

Let's see.

We need,

Center
RG
RT
Two Wrs
NT
Two ILBs
OLB
Two safeties
CB

We have,
A first
Two seconds,
A third
A Fourth
Two Fifths

In the draft.

You do the math.
If Chambers is re-signed I think we'd only need 1 other WR in the draft.
And again, there's always the secondary waves of Free Agency.

Niswanger can play RG. I don't think that's imperative to upgrade this year.
O'Callaghan can stay on at RT as well.

I would like to see C, NT, ILB, OLB, S addressed in April.
That's 5 picks. And again... I'm NOT opposed to bringing in FA's. I've gone on the record about at least a half-dozen FA's I'd like to sign.

Pashos and Fujita weren't on it.

milkman 03-07-2010 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6585553)
I'm giving Hali a pass, I'm looking for a Vrabel replacement.

And Cassel gets no such pass.
I'm only talking about giving him a pass for the sake of this discussion, taking into consideration that it won't be an area that Pioli will even consider addressing.

And yes, I am also talking about a Vrabel replacement.

dirk digler 03-07-2010 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6585549)
I've advocated the draft as the only way to build a team that is a championship contender. However, I realize that draft picks do not always work, nor should you stop looking to other areas for help.

So, with that said:

Why sign a 32 year old Thomas Jones when you can sign a 27 year old Mike Bell to perform the same role (and suffer little to no drop off in production at a low price)?

Why not pursue a guy like OJ Atogwe, who is both of a reasonable age (28) and not pursuing a monster deal?

Why not look at a guy like Pashos for a couple million per year instead of investing that same amount in Ndukwe and O'Callaghan, both players we know can't play the position?

Why resign Mike Vrabel when he was a pouting bitch and a broke dick mother****er last year?

Why not look at a guy like Dwan Edwards, who is a cheap and ideal 2 gap DE, instead of some Patriots scrub like LeKevin Smith?
I have never been a Mike Bell fan but he could fill the role of backup ok. You would have to make a poison pill contract to entice NO not to match the offer which might end costing more than signing Jones. But he is younger. Jones is 32 but he doesn't have alot of wear and tear on him like most RB's his age do.

chiefzilla1501 03-07-2010 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6585537)
Well, let me think about this for a second.

Let's see.

We need,

Center
RG
RT
Two Wrs
NT
Two ILBs
OLB
Two safeties
CB

We have,
A first
Two seconds,
A third
A Fourth
Two Fifths

In the draft.

You do the math.
I get your argument and I agree and am also upset that the Chiefs haven't been more active in free agency. However, I do take exception to the string of posts that say we have so many "must fill" positions.

While I think those are needs above that would be good to fill, that's different from holes we need to fill. Can you live with one average safety? Yes. Can you live with two average ILBs? In my opinion, yes. Can you live with average play from your two guards? In my opinion, yes. No team is going to have great players at every position.

In this defense, I would argue that you absolutely must fill NT, OLB, I would argue one playmaker at safety. On offense, I would argue that if you sign Bowe/Chambers, you're okay for the short-term. And of course, you need a QB--starting to doubt that that guy is Cassel. At the rest of the positions, if we settle on "average", it's not going to kill us.

Micjones 03-07-2010 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6585547)
QB
RB2
WR2
WR3
C
RG
RT
NT
ILB (x2)
OLB
FS
SS

And that's just starters that desperately need to be upgraded. (Obviously not counting RB2)
QB: Cassel's your starter for at least another year. BUT, I'm all for drafting Clausen if he's there and Berry's gone.

RB2: Jones/Fargas are lined up for visits

WR2: If Chambers is re-signed...you can cross this one off your list.

WR3: Draft (my preference)

C: Draft (my preference)

RG: I think you can get by with Niswanger there. But a Ducasse or Iupati would be nice. There's also a younger FA like Hadnot you could put there...

RT: I think you can get by with O'Callaghan.

NT: Draft (my preference)

ILB: Draft (my preference)

OLB: Draft (my preference)

FS/SS: Draft (my preference), Page's also been tendered right?

Micjones 03-07-2010 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6585549)
I've advocated the draft as the only way to build a team that is a championship contender. However, I realize that draft picks do not always work, nor should you stop looking to other areas for help.
We agree.

Quote:
So, with that said:

Why sign a 32 year old Thomas Jones when you can sign a 27 year old Mike Bell to perform the same role (and suffer little to no drop off in production at a low price)?
I'm not advocating that we sign Jones. I'd take Bell over him as well.
We agree here too...

Quote:
Why not pursue a guy like OJ Atogwe, who is both of a reasonable age (28) and not pursuing a monster deal?
No argument here either...

milkman 03-07-2010 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6585559)
If Chambers is re-signed I think we'd only need 1 other WR in the draft.
And again, there's always the secondary waves of Free Agency.

Niswanger can play RG. I don't think that's imperative to upgrade this year.
O'Callaghan can stay on at RT as well.

I would like to see C, NT, ILB, OLB, S addressed in April.
That's 5 picks. And again... I'm NOT opposed to bringing in FA's. I've gone on the record about at least a half-dozen FA's I'd like to sign.

Pashos and Fujita weren't on it.
Even if you throw out a couple of positions, you still have more holes than draft picks.

Signing a 2nd tier stopgap like Fujita to man a non-essential position like ILB gives you the chance to address other areas of need.

And the reality is, we aren't just talking about Fujita.

We are talking about 2nd tier free agents in general.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-07-2010 07:39 PM
O'Callaghan gave up 9 sacks and 24 pressures in 12 games.

Was there a worse RT in the NFL?

Micjones 03-07-2010 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6585579)
Even if you throw out a couple of positions, you still have more holes than draft picks.
We can agree to disagree on this point.

Quote:
Signing a 2nd tier stopgap like Fujita to man a non-essential position like ILB gives you the chance to address other areas of need.

And the reality is, we aren't just talking about Fujita.

We are talking about 2nd tier free agents in general.
Still... I'm asking why we'd prefer a stop-gap over a longer-term solution at that position. But...I suppose we can agree to disagree here too.

milkman 03-07-2010 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 6585570)
I get your argument and I agree and am also upset that the Chiefs haven't been more active in free agency. However, I do take exception to the string of posts that say we have so many "must fill" positions.

While I think those are needs above that would be good to fill, that's different from holes we need to fill. Can you live with one average safety? Yes. Can you live with two average ILBs? In my opinion, yes. Can you live with average play from your two guards? In my opinion, yes. No team is going to have great players at every position.

In this defense, I would argue that you absolutely must fill NT, OLB, I would argue one playmaker at safety. On offense, I would argue that if you sign Bowe/Chambers, you're okay for the short-term. And of course, you need a QB--starting to doubt that that guy is Cassel. At the rest of the positions, if we settle on "average", it's not going to kill us.
In discussing Fujita specifally, I'm talking about signing a second tier free agent to upgrade a non essential position.

He's an average LB.

We don't have one of those at ILB.

We have crap at ILB.

milkman 03-07-2010 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6585583)
We can agree to disagree on this point.



Still... I'm asking why we'd prefer a stop-gap over a longer-term solution at that position. But...I suppose we can agree to disagree here too.
I think it's pretty clear that you value ILB more than I do.

In the draft, if I have the choice between an ILB and a WR, I'm going to take the WR if they grade out roughly the same respectively at their positions.


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