Statistically, this team regressed in '09. People point to wins to justify progress. So which is it?

Changing the culture? Puke. I'm not a fan of the empty rhetoric that Pioli and company are so familiar with (see: right 53, it's a process).

Wins are only a shadow of the Mountain. WHen the mountain is higher, the shadow grows.

The most important things (the Mountain) are the basics of football - time of possesion, line of scrimmage, pressure on the QB, 1st downs, turnovers. The occaisional big play is nice too, if you have some playmakers.

You cannot magically make the shadow grow, you must make the mountain bigger.


That is my opnion...As far as changing the culture, that is what Pioli is trying to do...I agree it is rhetorical...But if it works, he will be a genius. If not....

8-8 is not a "perfectly reasonable expectation for 2010", and you bloody well know it. That's the sort of bullshit I'd expect from a Hamas or Mecca post.

The Chiefs arguably had less talent than the Lions when Pioli arrived, for crying out loud, and were certainly among the 2-3 least talented teams in the league. You know that, as well. You've spent the better part of a year bitching about damned near everything, and overlooking that elephant in the room. As for that talent on the line and in the secondary, I can only assume you're kidding.

I just looked at piolis draft last year. omfg that was pathetic. not a single guy did shit except succop

I never flip out over training camp reports.

I'll flip out if we come out roaring in preseason. Last year we sucked ass, and it was a harbinger.

And you guys thought that Maslowski, Kawika, and Fujita were bad? Of course, I did let Kawika and Fujita walk, and now they have SB rngs. But at least I drafted them. Pioli has to at least draft them first. A kick returner in the second round??:shake:

Shut the **** up.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/770...48C4911A1C4ACC

http://www.ballen-photos.com/photos/...liam-1-kcc.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse....siavii-180.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...oldR9/340x.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse....ardpollard.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/...ayers/5929.jpg

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/75577/49...027_75577f.jpg

God I hope so.

Yeah............
No.

%(/

I feel much better now, thanks.:D

We both flipped out over TC. Be honest, Grasshopper. ;)

Carl Peterson got pwned.

I can only speak for me, so the dude you quoted can answer for himself, but when a team wins more games against a (much) tougher schedule despite all the turnover, coaches and players, I would say that's a sign of improvement, regardless of what their yardage or scoring stats may say.

But, on the other hand, I would agree with you that (fan) expectations for this team in 2010 should fall into the 7-9 to 9-7 range. Because if they do "make strides" as the other fellow proposed - and I think they should based on the offseason to date - there's no reason they should win fewer games than that, with the teams on their schedule.

And they should be a contender for the division in 2011. If they've done a good job building things, they should be in the 10+ win neighborhood by that point. And then they should stay there for a while.

But, then again, that's been my expectation all along: Rough season in 2009 (tear-down year, for both the organization and the roster), Bounce-back in 2010 (re-build year), Contend in 2011.

If everything comes together in 2011, I agree that they'll likely contend for a playoff spot.

But I think it'll be 2012 (again, if everything comes together) before they'll likely contend for a Super Bowl.

After that, all of the pieces should be in place and this team should be good for quite a long while.

The problem with that is that they didn't play a tougher schedule.

We did the math at the end of last season and it was easier.

Contending in the superbowl sense will depend on the quarterback position. If Cassel exceeds everybody but the front office's expectations, next year is a possibility. If he doesn't, then it will probably be 2012 at the best, unless they're the Jets of last year, with a team so strong defensively and in the run game that they can overcome the play of a rookie QB.

But I was saying "contending" in the smaller sense. For the division.

Although it's entirely possible they do that this year.

I would say that ultimately that's irrelevant to the larger discussion. Picking a "winner" between the 2008 Chiefs and 2009 Chiefs is sort of like trying to decide whether you want to date the girl with gonorrhea or the girl with syphilis.

Where they go from here is what counts. Hopefully 2010 doesn't end up being the girl with herpes.

That's fair.

Just pointing out the statistics.