If you read my initial comments on draft day 2006, I expected Hali to be a Pro Bowl defense player.

That has not happened.

Hali played well his rookie season, then followed those up with average seasons. Last year while learning a new position, his level of play began to ascend. This year, his fifth year in the league, has been his best season to date. Maybe not statistically, but most certainly it's been his most effective season.

Has he lived up to his first round selection?

People who drag up old threads for no reason like this should be banned from posting for the length of time between the last post in that thread and the person's post who dug it up.

BS. People who constantly bash others, and call them idiots for their opinions should be held accountable for their brilliance.

And what about those of us who are correct?

:D

Actually, I thought Hali would have been a better player throughout his five year career than he's been. Does that mean I get a cookie?

:shake:

I have zero problem with anyone's opinion, but if people are getting ridiculed for theirs, then we should have accessible records like this to hold them accountable.
For the record, I was dead wrong about Hali. After seeing him, get owned repeatedly in the season that we set low bar for sacks in a season, I said that Hali would never be a legit threat, and that his only place he would be effective is coming off the left end. Everybody gets some right, and some wrong. No one is ever right or wrong all the time, and nobody knows what a players future will look like. GMs, and want to be GMs alike can only speculate off of the body of work that they have to go on, that's why it pisses me off so much to see the know it alls raking people across the coals for their opinions. It just makes them look stupid in the long run. It's not their opinions of the players, right or wrong that makes them look that way, it's the fact that they are too stupid to know that a fifth round pick may end up looking like a 1st, and a first may be out of the league in a few years. Even the best drafting teams have picks that you look back on, and say WTF were they thinking?

I mean, who would have ever thought that Matt Cassel would be making Mark Sanchez look like a chump right now?

Clearly, you DO have issue with people's opinions, as evidenced by your hate for Mecca and the constant "Gholston" in retort to Hamas.


No, you weren't. Hali was effective his first season playing opposite Allen. His second and third seasons were a disappointment. The move to outside linebacker has given his career new life but there is no evidence that indicates his career would have ascended had he stayed at DE in a 4-3 defense.

This goes both ways. If someone is correct in their assement that a player will be infective, I rarely see any praise for that evaluation.

Conversely, if a player is better or meets expectations, those who questioned the player is the one "raked" over the coals.

It's a double standard.


No, it doesn't. It makes them wrong. There are several reasons why players fail to translate to the NFL and there are several reasons why players with lower grades outplay their draft status.

On draft day 2006, I stated that Jarrad Page would be a impact safety for the Chiefs, yet if you search the threads, there are tons of people that say he's camp fodder and won't make the team. Are all of those people "stupid"? No. For the most part, I'd bet none of them had seen him play and don't understand 7th round value.

And once again, when someone is "right" in their assessment of a player, I rarely, if ever, see that member praised.

This is untrue. It's very rare that teams over-evaluate players. Sure, every once in a while a true bust comes along. But most team's evaluations are similar. Every once in a while, there's a "WTF" moment, like with Tyson Jackson or Tyson Alualu this past draft.

But it appears that Jacksonville was correct in their evaluation and the Chiefs were incorrect. It happens.

Mark Sanchez has 16 TD, 8 INT's and more passing yardage than Cassel. I think it's safe to say that the Jets have faced better teams this season than the Chiefs although it's speculation as to how either would have done if they were to switch teams.

But Mark Sanchez has hardly been the definition of a "chump" to date this season.

Great...Dane playing the stat card with Mark Sanchez like it means something...

too bad he left out the 55% completions and the 82 rating...

AND they've beaten New England....

and WAIT FOR IT

Miami
Buffalo
Denver
Minnesota
Detroit
Cleveland
Houston
Cincinnati

Needed OT against Detroit and Cleveland...got bailed out by a sketchy PI against Denver and got bailed out by Kubiak being a terrible, conservative head coach after THE SANCHIZE threw a "game ending" INT...

So Dane...

Do a little research bud.

this is why these pessimistic morons think everything Chiefs suck all the times compared to other teams...

they WATCH every Chiefs game (most of them do anyways) and let stats do the talking for all of the other games they don't watch...

so stats don't count for Chiefs players but they define every other player in the NFL

You could get whiplash reading this thread from the beginning. :eek:

I would say it turned out to be a pretty decent pick. Look at the players taken after him in the round and tell me how many are definitively better.

At that point in time, it was completely inarguable that Eric Hicks had achieved more than Tamba Hali.

And yes, Demeco Ryans is a better player than Tamba, especially if we are running a 4-3, which we were.

If you are going to bump posts to make other people look bad, you might want to get your facts straight first.

Hali was in his third year in the league and at the featured pass rushing position accumulated 3 sacks.

It's funny how all of these things get filtered out when its time for an organizational ball lavage.

the problem with you guys is you expect far too much out of every single draft pick...

It's ridiculous.

You expect every 1st rounder to be a hall of famer...every 2nd round to be an all-pro...ever 3rd rounder to be a pro bowler...and every 4th rounder to be a 10 year starter.

It's pure insanity.

Comparing Ryans and Tamaba is comparing apples and oranges. One is a mike backer in a 40 front and the other is an outside linebacker in a 30 front. You Hamas nor anyone else can say which is better because it's like comparing a corner to a safety. Both play in the secondary but that's where the comparisons end.

But seriously Hamas, you said we woulda been better of drafting Thomas Howard. Who sucks absolute nuts, and always has. And I don't care what his numbers were.

That's a wonderful strawman you've built.

No one is saying that it's a direct comparison, but I think it's pretty safe to say that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali. I'm sure you threw a similar shitfit when NFLN had their list of Top 100 players some time back.

So Thomas Howard sucks nuts because he has and no information will refute that. OK. Nice tautology, Ricky Roughnuts.

I don't know how anyone comes to the conclusion that Demeco Ryans is a better football player than Tamba Hali...

but hey, whatever...lol

It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that he's not a "chump".

It's like what I just said...

Stats don't count for Chiefs fans because they watch the Chiefs games and everyone acquiring these stats has to pass the "eye" test...

but since these same people probably don't get to watch 16 Texans games, or 16 Jets games, or 16 Packers games (etc. etc. etc.) stats execute their arguments for them just fine.

I'll tell you this right now...

I don't think 155 tackles on a shitty defense is indicative of anything...I've seen Demeco Ryans and the Texans play more than a few times...

He's certainly a solid player...but it's not like they got a whole lot worse when he got injured...they have been a bad defense every single year they've been in the NFL...

Demeco Ryans is CLEARLY not a gamechanger...

Hali is...

Ryans may be a more complete football player, but Hali can change games...so...?

Who do you take?

Watching them both play? Ryans was DROY, has been to two Pro Bowls for a team of low visibility (this isn't Roy Williams making it b/c he was with Dallas) and he was a 1x All-Pro.

That being said, it's obvious you can't say that Tom Brady is a better football player than Jerheme Urban, as they play different positions.

He's still the weakest link on a really solidly built team...and he'll be the reason why they either...

A) miss the playoffs

or

B) don't win a Super Bowl

Seriously. I'm not sold on the fact they don't finish out 1-4 and possibly miss the playoffs...starting this week.

The Bears and the Jets are two teams that could EASILY BE .500 rather than 8-3 and 9-2...

There is NO QUESTION in my mind the Chiefs are better than the Jets...

and I HOPE MORE THAN ANYTHING we win the West and host the Jets in the Wild Card round. I pray, even.

You take whomever you need.

The Chiefs at the time needed someone opposite Jared Allen. The Texans needed an MLB.

ok well...

why is this debate even ongoing then?

Right now it looks like Hali, despite some early career struggles, has turned into quite the solid 1st round pick.

Yay Carl, yay Chiefs.

The irony of this is that you were just running your mouth about people not watching games. Had you watched a single Jets game this year, you'd know that their weakest link is not the QB (not by a long shot) but their inability to generate pressure on the opposing QB.

not by a long shot?!?!?

Ahahahahaha.

Ok.

I see your blip on the Sarcas-O-Meter, big guy. That's how the agents and lawyers are also paid, and the guys on this team who sign the contracts.

the OP was 04-29-2006, 02:32 PM

It's old shit. Why go back for old shit? Waste of time past reading the OP.

Exactly. You have nothing to offer as a rebuttal, because you, who were just bitching about stats, has no reference to how the Jets play other than stats.

Why on earth we're all in the Cannibull-Buffet, is beyond me.

Does it make anyone feel better, beside the draftabulators? NO.

and you study every Jets game????

ROFL

I bet I've watched as many Jets games this year as you have.

and just like I rightfully predicted Cassel to have a breakout week...

I again predict Sanchez will have one of the worst weeks he's ever had this week...

He is going to single-handedly lose that game for the Jets on Sunday.

I bring up old shit that Mecca posts when he's wrong. Mostly because when he's wrong, he never owns it.

Why does someone need to "own it"?

The dude has 75,000 posts on a football and he's got a strong opinion.

Is the purpose of this forum to discuss football or to wait until someone's wrong, then throw it in their face repeatedly?

that's his thing

this is like the third or fourth time you said the same thing about looking at an old thread, who cares? don't like old threads, don't post in 'em. We got your opinion already. jeeez

I like having access to old threads, I think it's very entertaining....

Most of us throw a lot of shit around here. And we are wrong a lot. You've been wrong about some things. So has Hamas, Milkman, OTWP, etc.

The difference is, myself, you and others are here almost everyday and admit when we are wrong. Mecca avoids it like the plague. Thats why he gets so much shit.

I bet the last time Mecca mentioned Sam Bradford was in April.

Dez Bryant too.

Uhm

If you can't understand why people despise Mecca on this board then you just aren't very smart...

He has an opinion, doesn't accept anyone else's opinion, and then tells them why they are wrong...and then when he is wrong he just disappears...

or when the Chiefs are winning he refuses to post...

Seriously...the only time he comes on this season is when the Chiefs lose...

It is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

and I PROMISE everyone that mecca still lurks this site...just logged out so no one can see him...

after all he has no job...what else can he be doing?

Brushing his hair?

I didn't bump it you cum target. Worst. Troll. Eva

Here are the 5 picks on either side of him. Based on this, he was a good pick. Only Antonio Cromartie and Davin Joseph have made a Pro Bowl. Joseph was an alternate once, and Cromartie's career is really sputtering. I would say that Hali is the best or second best player out of that bunch.


14 Philadelphia Eagles Brodrick Bunkley Defensive Tackle Florida State

15 St. Louis Rams (from Atlanta Falcons via Denver) Tye Hill CB Clemson

16 Miami Dolphins Jason Allen Safety Tennessee

17 Minnesota Vikings Chad Greenway Linebacker Iowa

18 Dallas Cowboys Bobby Carpenter Linebacker Ohio State

19 San Diego Chargers Antonio Cromartie Cornerback Florida State

20 Kansas City Chiefs Tamba Hali Defensive End Penn State

21 New England Patriots Laurence Maroney Running back Minnesota

22 San Francisco 49ers Manny Lawson LB NC State

23 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Davin Joseph Guard Oklahoma

24 Cincinnati Bengals Johnathan Joseph Cornerback South Carolina

That would be awesome. Good call.

He brings it on himself. Most people here can be wrong without stimulating anyone enough to dig it up and throw it in their face. It's people who are in people's face with their opinions that turn out to be wrong who get hoisted for the most part, as it should be.

Mecca obviously watches a lot of football, and he knows a lot about the game. His ability to evaluate talent at the college level and translate it to the NFL game is pretty poor, though. That said, he's not as insufferable as some of the others. I enjoy debating people with strong opinions. There are plenty of people around here who attack posters who dare disagree with their "expert" opinions. Not surprisingly, these "expert" opinions wind up being wrong more often than not.

Thomas Howard isn't even a ****ing starter now. when he was, he was the softest ****ing linebacker I have seen in a while. Shit at the point, couldn't stack and shed to save his life. Not as soft as Bobby Carpenter but a damn sight close to it.

Either way your pre draft selections are some of the worst I've ever seen. Vernon Gholston, Thomas Howard....for the love of God man.

And no I think it's safe to say that Ryans is not a better football player than Tamba because the truth is, playing inside requires a lot less ability than playing on the edge. Don't think so? Who makes more money, edge rushers or inside backers on average?

It's a complete different skillset #1, and anyone who has even watched football, let alone rode the NAIA bench would know that.

Furthermore, the Howard comp was in their third season when he was a starter and was routinely producing, while Hali was the premier pass rusher on the worst pass rushing team of all time. Not the division, not the conference, not the year. EVAR.

I bet you haven't. There's this thing on D* called Short Cuts. You don't get it slinging marinara or while your roomies are dropping n-bombs on your computer at the bar.

Mecca drafted Sam Bradford in the mock.

Howard has never been worth a dogs shaved ass. Producing how? Because he made tackles 7 yards down field? You flat out did not watch the guy play if you say he was producing and that isn't even a ****ing argument. The guy sucked. He's riding pine for a reason now.

Furthermore, Hali is still the only pass rush threat we have. If we get someone on the otherside of the him, he's going to be a 10+ sack a year guy. I think everyone should ****ing know that by now.

Thomas Howard was never Ray Lewis, but he was an effective weakside cover backer, which is one of the reasons why he snagged a fair number of picks, and made some big plays for the Fade on occasion.

Also, no one disagrees with you that Hali is the only PR the Chiefs have, but when that only rusher is putting up 3 sacks a year, even an above average weakside LB who can snag 6 picks in a year looks better than a dog's ass, which is exactly what Hali was in 2008.

Dude seriously, grabbing a few picks doesn't make him worth shit. He never was. He got blowed up (to quote Emmitt Smiff) regularly, and was a big reason why that run defense was so putrid. I'm not even going to debate it anymore. The guy is, and was garbage. Period. He's riding the pine behind a guy that isn't much better. He wasn't Ray Lewis when Ray was on injured reserve. He wasn't even a poor mans Derrick Brooks. He just sucked. I don't care what his tackles were. Donnie Edwards made a shit load of tackle.....19 yards past the line. But even Donnie was a better player than Thomas Howard. Don't even try to argue this one Hamas. That guy is garbage.

Playing with his hand in the dirt against left tackles with no one else around him. Obviously the guy is lot better than Thomas ****ing Howard. I don't throw the baby out with the bath water, which is what you do. Tamba had a bad year so hey, **** him. It's dumb Hamas. Lots of guys have down seasons.

No one said that Thomas Howard was great or even that good. However, a poor man's Donnie Edwards (and that's exactly what he was) was a far more productive player in 2008 than Tamba Hali. Do you remember how ****ing bad he was? How he was absolutely annihilated against the run? You talk about Howard getting killed against the run, Hali was the worst run defending DE in the league not named Dwight Freeney.

Essentially everyone had given up on Tamba Hali before halfway through 2009. You weren't here, so you have the benefit of claiming that you didn't. Congrats. I was here, I read the ****ing posts and posted in the thread. The guy was a massive target of vitriol. He was viewed as a situational, complementary pass rusher who was horrible against the run.

And expecting a first round draft pick to beat a LT when single covered is not a Herculean task.

He didn't draft him someone else drafted him because Mecca was too busy to make his pick.

Go back and read his post about it.

I said Hali had a down season, no doubt about it. **** man Michael Strahan had a 5.5 sack season once after becoming a pro bowl guy. That's my point. It happens to almost every guy at some point. A down season.

And no, Thomas Howard was never even a poor mans Donnie Edwards. Dude he sucked. Just stop. I watched him get trucked by very poor fullbacks who are out of the league now. He was soft as shit.

I'll tell you who he was, a poor mans Ian Gold.

ahem...excuse me.... I called that this was the best defense for him and that he would do well. I really didn't have any doubts that he would. Frankly, it was a very, very good fit given his athletic ability.

No, it is much, much better to threaten and beat your chest and call someone else stupid....... when it is still opinion and NOT proven.

Your position on this is laughable, not that I am surprised.

Congratulations.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AvlLzS9Pgj...600/COOKIE.gif

Mine too whore.........

Is that supposed to mean he liked Bradford? Cuz there's about 200 posts of evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps he was ambivalent about him, then? He was fine with taking him #4 overall is all I'm saying.

Terrible!

Further evidence that DaKCMan AP is supremely Awesome.

Good work!

The 10 players the Chiefs missed out on by taking Hali "too early":

Laurence Maroney
Manny Lawson (I remember a lot of CP love for Manny and now look at him)
Davin Joseph
Johnathan Joseph
Santonio Holmes
John McCargo
DeAngelo Williams
Marcedes Lewis
Nic Mangold
Joseph Addai

Lots of RBs and interior OL.

Damn it, Carl!!!! :cuss:

....uh, nevermind. Just flashbacks is all....damn Manning-becomes-a-Donk-inflicted-PTSD.


Hope Julius Peppers ends his GD career on Sept 9 at Soldier field, bitch. Stay down. :cuss:

:thumb:

How many more years does he have to kick A to be in the Hall. A slower DT with more determination.

LMAO

I fully expect to see the always timely " (Insert player name)? MOTHER F*** YOU PIOLI!! " thread tonight.

FML

When did we become the Jets?

This was Carl's one hit in the last decade.

Hali can't play in a 3-4

looking forward to it

Flowers, DJ, Charles, Albert?

LOL

wow the OP is like the biggest idiot ever.

Nailed it.

Nailed it.

Whoa.

I think...


I think I'm God.