Cassel with the Chiefs? I'm going to be willing to bet he sees a pretty significant decline.

No last years stats. And I think Cassel will throw for more yardage and more TD's.

It's gonna be nice to finally win in Denver again after all these years. Thank you, Pioli!!

Unless they replace their center, right guard and right tackle (I know, Goff may fit in there somewhere) AND get a burner on the outside, I HIGHLY doubt it.

Pioli spends a 2nd on Cassel, secretly hoping Sanchez will be on the board

If Sanchez is available, he spends the first on him, just to be used for trade bait, just like Cassel? So Pioli is less than honest in aquiring both players?

and then turns around and gives denver either a first or second round QB? Why would he do that?

Just doesn't make sense, this just seems like wishful thinking for the fans of Sanchez.

It's a business. If that's what's best for the Chiefs, so be it.

No need to read further.

Pioli spends a 2nd on Cassel because he's getting excellent value. And he's right, considering other teams were reportedly prepared to offer a mid-1st for Cassel, and we beat them to it.

If Pioli has the opportunity to turn the 34th overall pick into the 18th or 19th overall pick, he's going top do it, regardless of his history with Cassel because it is what is best for the Kansas City Chiefs.

It's pretty obvious that he's at least keeping his options open, otherwise he would have signed Cassel to a long term deal immediately and lowered the cap hit.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, Steve. But I am saying that it does make sense, and I put NOTHING past Pioli. If he has an opportunity to better this team, he's going to take it - however unconventional it may seem.

Yes i think they are planing on Goff being the starter at RG.

Thigpen threw 18 and he only started about 2/3 of the year. I'm thinking 23-24 tds 3400 yards. So probably fewer yards, but I think he will throw more than 21 TDs

Easy there VT, don't get ahead of yourself.

He's going give Denver a QB who he values as 1st or 2nd rounder, to potentially be a thorn in ours side for years?

just don't see it happening, but who knows.

Exactly.

Completely agree, this sort of thing just isn't done even by ex-Patriot butt buddies.

No one said anything about having to trade either QB to Denver. He could easily as trade Cassel to Tampa Bay, New York or Minnesota.

If Pioli wants Sanchez, I would like this approach much better. I wouldn't give the donks the sweat off my _____.

FEAR KYLE ORTON!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, the patriots deal in division all the time. Whatever is best for their team. They just make sure they get the good end of the stick.

Take a look at who you have on your team, how bad they were last year, then tell me where you think you can run smack at any other team.

ROFL so true.

So I turn on ESPNnews and the first thing I see is Mark Schelerth talking about how the Bears Oline sucks so Cutler will suck..

This guy literally thinks that offensive lineman mean more than franchise QB's do I watched him argue that the Lions should take Jason Smith the other day...

True, but in all fairness, VP - we split with you last year (one of our TWO wins) and you just gave away the closest thing you've had to replacing John Elway.

I mean FFS. You guys have had an Oakland-like offseason. You know the one - where we all point and laugh.

Not that you don't have reason to feel positive, I admit KC is on the upswing now that they finally jettisoned the trash.

Don't get me wrong you have every reason to laugh. Hell I'M laughing.
And we will always split, that's just how it goes with KC/DEN.

Yeah, we sucked, but, that was last yr. This isn't the same org. now, because now, we got that fire.

:D

Wow, I've missed a couple of hundred posts.

Is Mecca still smarter than McDaniels and everybody else in football?

Don't know about all that, but in close to 2 hours of TV coverage, I've yet to see anyone say this was a good deal for the Broncos.

I think Tim has a legitimate concern.

The rumors are that Cutler still drinks pretty heavily, not good for a diabetic, and he is still a pretty immature guy.

That being said, if the rumors are groundless and he gets his head screwed on straight, a very good possibility since he is still so young, the Bears made a hell of a deal.

But hey, we got Matt Cassel.

:banghead:

I'm still saying that Cassel move is something that we'll look back on in 3 or 4 years as a blunder.

File that under "Kawika Mitchell will get 30 million dollars"

Unless McDaniels is a complete ****ing reerun, there had to be a pretty compelling reason for him to immediately want to dump a probowl QB for a career backup. I don't buy that "Cassel knows the system" crap, either.

Really? You're still saying that? I figured your opinion had changed since the last of your 7,000 posts saying the same thing.

I suspect that you are right.

If Pioli can't effectively evaluate a QB he drafted and spent 4-5 years with, then he'll be a failure here. Either Pioli is incompetent, or Cassel will be pretty damn good.

I don't know.

Peter Gammons is a pretty sorry looking fellow.

I'm thinking the odds are pretty good, considering he alienated his franchise QB the moment he was announced as HC.

"Don't worry, Jay. We'll keep the offensive staff."

*fires offensive staff*

"Don't worry, Jay. The offense will stay the same."

*changes offense*

"Don't worry, Jay. You're my QB."

*is on the phone trying to trade for Matt Cassell*

Exactly.

If Cassel fails, it wasn't the Cassel move that was the blunder. It was the PIOLI move that was the blunder.

I have the same fear, but hold out hope that I'm wrong.

That's the biggest difference between you and Mecca.

Wait a minute, Cassel played for USC that can't be right.

The Broncos got two first rounders, a 3rd rounder and a player for a player and a 5th rounder.

In no way, shape or form did they get "bent over".

Well, we'll see. Seeing as how I've been forced into being a half-assed Cutler fan :grr: I hope he turns out OK. If he succeeds in Chicago, as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the Chiefs, I'll be happy.

I just don't see it happening.

Cassel doesn't have to fail for this to be a blunder.

If Stafford or Sanchez, or both, develop into top 5-6 QBs in the NFL, and Cassel is just an average QB, then it's blunder in my book.

I personally think that there's a good chance that is exactly what will happen.

At this point, it's pretty safe to say that everyone else in football is smarter than McDaniels.

You have two things:

1) The #2 ranked offense that achieved such a ranking with no running game last year
2) The #30 ranked defense

Your first move is to try and get rid of the most important player on your team, the guy who got that back-less offense to #2, for a guy who is older, more expensive, less talented, less experienced, and locked up for a shorter term.

If we dredged Fredo Corleone out of the lake, his water-bloated corpse would call up McDaniels and say

"Look at this. Look at how stupid you are."

They got an 18, the equivalent of a second rounder this year, a third rounder and a career backup for a BONAFIDE ****ING FRANCHISE QB and a fifth rounder. They got bent over.

This.

Precisely. I don't think that Cassel will stink up the joint, far from it. I just see it as very likely that one or both of these two QBs become very, very good.

Name me a recent trade where a team got more for a player. It's certainly possible I've overlooked one, but nothing comes to mind.

Once again, Lindsay Soto is hot.

:thumb:

Well, it is likely that we would have only had a chance at one of them anyway. If Stafford goes #1 and is great, then it doesn't matter.

Name me a recent trade where a 25 year old QB with limitless upside, coming off of a Pro Bowl season was traded.

Uh, any time a top 5 pick has been traded. They got the equivalent of the 7th Pick on the DVC + Orton. My analytics are in the thread about who won the trade.

Perhaps. But what if McDaniels, with complete access to all the behind-the-scenes knowledge that we humble denizens of the intraweb can only guess about, had a damn good reason for doing what he did?

That is just as likely as anything you, Mecca or anybody else here are speculating about.

Time will tell. Again, if it ends up being a screw job for Denver and a steal for Chicago, I will be pleased. Hell, I'm the only one here who could potentially end up with a Cutler Bears jersey.

At this point, the only thing I want is McDaniels to fall flat on his face with a 1-15 showing so we can boot his ass out of here after one year.

Well, that would assume we actually have a chance to draft them.

And I would call your above scenario "failure" so my statement still applies.

Yep.

Look back at how incestuous the Parcells-tree guys are with quarterbacks, or just players in general. It tells you all you need to know.

Parcells picks up Testaverde in NYJ, then he follows him to Dallas. Bledsoe also follows him to Dallas. Hell, Ray ****ing Lucas went from the Pats to the Jets following Parcells. Pennington went from the Jets (where he was drafted by Parcells) to being signed by the Parcells-led 'Phins the first time he was cut loose.

Testaverde's corpse last rolled up to Belichick in New England.

Pioli and McDaniels get their own jobs. Where is the first place that they go looking for a QB, when McDaniels has a franchise QB and Pioli has a top 3 pick with two great prospects available?

To New England, for their backup.

It's ****ing ridiculous.

It sure seems ridiculous. But it's not iron-clad - BB traded Drew Bledsoe, who was Parcells only #1 overall pick. So they're not married to it by any means.

And there is that little thing about the fact that they have enough Super Bowl rings to wear them on BOTH hands...

I'm leaving my opinion on Cutler (which isn't all that high, I'd admit) at the door for the moment, and looking at this as subjectively as possible.

We do have a recent trade where a 26-year old all pro defensive end was traded in similar head-scratching fashion, and he only got a 1st, two thirds and a swap of 6ths.

Which is a great deal less value than two 1sts and a 3rd.Again, I said recently. Looking at this trade in comparison with recent trades, both for QBs and for players in general. Who has gotten more?

If the Broncos had traded Cutler away for a 2nd and a can of smoked salmon, I might agree they got bent over.

Hey, like I said, maybe I'm the one with the bias, because I don't think Cutler is a franchise quarterback, and I don't think he's going to do anything for the Bears. I think this move is bad, bad, bad for us in the long term, and I wish to christ Cutler was going to be a Donkey for the forseeable future. I hope we're not looking back 5 years from now and seeing this as the first step in the building of a dynasty.

I get that.

However, for me, I believe that Sanchez just has "it", and in time will be one of the top three QBs in the league, and since he is likely the QB we will have had the chance to draft, then Pioli will have failed.

i guess if you look at it that way, it's not such a bad deal.

i thought he was worth a mid/high first and not more. if the value is that, then... it doesn't seem so lopsided in the Broncos' favor

I can't get over how funny it would be if I ended up buying a Cutler Bears jersey. LMAO

I want a pic of that.

I'd post it, if for no other reason than to ruin Mecca's "I hate all things Denver" argument. Ex-Broncos who **** Denver over tend to become frazod favorites.

When NE traded their Number 7 for NO's no. 10 and no. 78 in 2008. That is roughly the same level of compensation.

Not a player trade.

Just in case there's any confusion here, nothing would make me happier than the donkeys getting bent over. I just don't see this trade as that.

I beg to differ. Any draft-day trade is inherently a player trade.

one thing if det or stl take one first it doesnt matter what that player ends up as we couldnt have gotten him anyway
edit: sorry already covered

So what value do you assign to Cutler? He was drafted, where, 11? So you say this is a bad trade because you consider him worth more than the, what do you say it's the equivalent of, the 7th pick in the draft?

I guess you just rate Cutler as more valuable than I do. I think Denver was lucky to get what they did in the trade climate recently. Two firsts for any player is a huge deal.

In my opinion, of course.

In the end this perception the day of won't matter anyway. If Cutler really is a franchise QB and the last piece the Bears need, it'll have been worth it for them. If the Broncos use the picks as a strong foundation that propels them back to the top of the conference, it'll have been worth it for them. Who knows what's going to happen; I think history will ultimately determine the winner. But today, I think they both won, and my personal opinion is that we'll be wishing Cutler was still a Bronco two or three years from now.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/14243778


AP: Cutler Fails Physical, Trade Falls Through



Florham Park, N.J.- Disgruntled Denver Broncos quaterback Jay Cutler failed a physical this morning, sinking a possible trade to the New York Jets in what was being called a "blockbuster" deal involving four players and a day-one draft pick.


The physical revealed trauma and several severe strains to the 4th year player's labia majora . While no sugery is necessary, the injury will keep the unhappy signal caller out of most of the team's OTAs and mini-camps. Newly minted head coach Josh McDaniels gave no comment and seemed to be rather aggravated to learn his franchise QB has been playing with the condition for two full seasons now.



If you are still reading this and haven't figured it out that I'm just kidding because I love/hate the kid and enjoy seeing him sleep in the proverbial bed he made, sorry (and if you didn't figure it out by the time "labia majora" made an appearance, I'm even sorrier). I honestly believe as far as talent goes, there aren't many QBs ahead of him (I don't care who you root for, you have to love the cannon he's packing). The fact that he is the leader of a team I hate is the only reason I joke and I joke, and I kid and I kid.


I had the pleasure of having season tickets in San Diego (on the 38 yard line 14 rows behind the Chargers bench) and watched Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler go back and forth the entire game (in '07). When I watched the replay I was amazed that the only chatter shown on the telecast was from Phil. Oh well.

A) A 2010 first is not worth a 2009 first.
B) The 18th Pick is not very good value
C) It is conceivable that the 2010 pick will be in the mid-20s now that the Bears have a franchise QB.

I know how the chart works, but I don't think I buy that part of it any longer. I used to, and I think it holds true for lower rounds, maybe, but I've come to believe a first is a first, regardless.

That's just me, though.

It's amazing to me the people on here ripping Cassel and he hasn't even played a snap for the Chiefs...and in the meantime...super pimping Sanchez. Cassel has proved himself in the NFL and Sanchez has little experience as far as COLLEGE is concerned...yet many here still prefer the latter. Makes you wonder how stupid some are...:shake:

A 2010 first is the functional equivalent of a 2009 2nd.

FTR: Sanchez has more college experience than Cassel. ;) As for Cassel, he isn't proven in my opinion.

Thats how I treated it in my analysis.

Don't worry, Chicago just signed Orlando Pace to protect ****ler's blind side.....(rotoworld)


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Hea...=NFL&hl=141983

Cassel's a USC guy, too. I thought their QBs were the best ever? :shrug:

Indeed you did.

Parker's playing catch-up.

2009 1st and 3rd and 2010 1st and Orton?

WHAT?