Manning threw that pick 6, it was obvious Wayne wasn't going to catch that

Really? How about listing some of Montana's postseason chokes?

Good luck with that.

9-9 In Playoffs. Playoff games lost when favored? Seven.

The guy would need to win 3 Super Bowl at least to match Montana and even then.....

I'm sorry it's over.

Manning is a great regular season QB, arguably the greatest statistically, although Unitas, Marino and Favre had that claim.

But the GOAT he'll never be. He'll always be marred by being the leader of one of the most underachieving teams in NFL history.

Suffice to say I disagree with, erm, everything you just said.

I personally think that Manning is GOAT choke artist. Or damn near. When I think choke I picture him.

The pick 6 was a career defining moment. To me, it showed that he isnt clutch like the GOAT has to be.

I cant see Montana throwing that ball in that situation.

Montana is and always will be the GOAT.

That is precisely where I'm at on Manning. He's still the best QB in the league, IMO, but no longer even in contention for the GOAT. Not to say he can't get back there, but he needs about 3 SB's IMO at this point.

Agreed, it seems he loses against other really good QB's

That throw ti Wayne was epic fail

He had Collie wide open not even 3 yards to his right from where Wayne was at. That throw cost his team the game. It was Matt Cassell like decision making.

btw where was peyton to shake hands? he pulled a brady and took off quick

Wayne has the responsibility to cut off the defender. I know this because ESPN just said it. :rolleyes: Roll eyes!

As a Saints fan, that likely will be one of my favorite plays of all time.

Manning is not the GOAT, nor was he before the pick 6 last night. When they went down 24-17 you could see it in Manning's eyes when he came onto the field. Panic. He wasn't calm at all. Anyone could see that.

There was an oreo doublestuff championship after the game he had to get to.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/NBCSport...21.ss_full.jpg

NTTAWWT

ROFL

Wayne's failure to cut off the defender doesn't making up for the epic fail of throwing to the WRONG freaking guy in the first place.

Look, Wayne didn't fall. He didn't give up on the route, or run the wrong route. He didn't display alligator arms or have the ball carom off his chest or hands up in the air. Manning went to the WRONG guy. And how Wayne is supposed to know that a DB is roaring in to cut him off and take the ball to the house I'm not sure.

Sounds like ESPN is just trying to defend the golden child. That's fine, but honestly, watch the tape. It's not hard.

Yep. Manning even said in the postgame that Porter just made a good play. He read the route.

Porter was on Sirius this morning and said that INT was the result of film study.

Apparently, the Colts had a tendency to go to that combo route on 3rd down. Porter said when Collie went in short motion from that side, he was fully expecting the short in that Wayne ran, and jumped it.

That still doesn't excuse Manning for making a poor read. What's funny, is that he was eyeballing Collie and then for some reason whipped it over to Wayne, really almost without looking.

If you heard the Saints radio call of the play, you'd think the pass was actually intended for Collie.

To dakcmanap, that picture is ****ing great.

great job

Did you mean to post from this account, or the "Tom Dragon" account?

i like your clever attempt at being funny and smart, but thats actually a buddy of mine.

Shocking.

for what reason would i need 2 accounts here?

I'd love to know the answer to that question, considering how many multiple accounts are set up here.

ROFL

LSU Freek does some great work.

ROFL

Well, he's a douche (too).

Casino. Cash transfer.

Beat turning tricks on the corner.

All the excuses for Peyton Manning in this thread are ****ing pathetic. He's never been clutch, he still isnt clutch, and he never will be clutch. Who gives a shit if he lead a game winning drive in the REGULAR SEASON. He's a pissant in the playoffs. End of story.

That interception was on the receiver. He pulled up on his route like he was lost. Further, peyton had the td pass go through waynes hands on the last drive. Peyton is clutch if for no other reason than he dragged that shitty team to the super bowl and gave them every opportunity to win it. What a bunch of overreactions based on ignorance there are in this thread.
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Except for that Super Bowl he's won and everything.....

Manning? WHO DAT?

That's what I saw as well. Plus, great play by the defense on the interception.

Shitty team? ROFL

The Colts are a talented team, and have been so for most of the decade.

Dwight freeney dissappeared in the second half. The defense sucked balls. The wide outs were dropping balls left and right. The only thing the colts had going for them was Peyton.
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Of course its everyone elses fault but peytons. Hes perfect.

Its not like HE threw the pick or anything...

If he was really "great" like some of you claim, wouldnt he have more than 1 superbowl win?

I know..people think he's some sort of god

And who cares if Wayne dropped a TD pass on the last drive? I highly doubt the Colts could score 2 TDs in the last 2 minutes..

I've seen it done before. Elway did it multiple times. I don't understand why Peyton Almighty couldn't score 2 touchdowns in 2 minutes.

Do you know how passing in the NFL works? He was throwing where his receiver was supposed to cut to. His receiver pulled up on the route.

Its bc Horseface is a way way way better QB than Peyton no matter how much Hootie the Rapist says otherwise.

Oh horseshit..Reggie breaks down and cuts to the inside..and when he does Porter already has the pass in his hands..Peyton just made a dumbass decision

Yeah, he was really clutch in that game. They won with the slimmest margins in that game huh?


Funny thing is that he shouldn't have been the MVP of that game. Rhodes should have.

He was clutch in the Pats game, I'll give you that.

You are being as big a dick and an idiot as Hootie here.

Yeah.

One of the main arguments that Hootie has consistently presented is that Manning is charge of that offense, he calls the plays, he runs things.

Now, when things go wrong, its all the coach's fault.

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I think everyone knows that I'm a huge Peyton Manning fan. I'm fairly new to football, and I don't have the same level of understanding as many around here. I admit that. Peyton Manning is one of the best field generals I've ever seen. He has an almost preternatural ability to read defences and a remarkable understanding for the game. He's accurate. He's classy. I like the guy. He's one of the best (certainly, that I've watched) to play the game.

However... people can make excuses... Wayne was off on the route? Ok. Peyton was under pressure? Ok. The bottome line is he made the pass, and the defender made a hell of a play. The game was not over and that pick 6 all but sealed it. Peyton has to take some of (if not all of) the blame on his own shoulders. He's won a lot of games for his team. This time... he lost it for them. He played a great game, minus one play. It just happens that one play was the difference. Sucks, but there it is.

But let's give mad props to the Saints and their coaching staff. They went into the game with one objective: keeep the ball out of Manning's hands. They did that, and they did it well. Some ballsy calls and some great execution on short, time-eating, plays... Those guys coached a great game. They knew that Manning would beat them. So they did there best to make that one guy a non-factor. They were right. Keep Manning out of the game. Make him desperate. Bingo. He made a poor decision at the worst possible time. I bet he wished he had that one back... but...

Congrats Saints. Peyton Manning is still one of the best QB's I've ever seen. I've never called him the GOAT. But let's not act like Manning isn't a classy, intellegent, and talented player. In my personal opinion, I'm comfortable saying he's better than Brady, Big Ben, and even Brees, regardless of his playoff record. He's not as "clutch" as those guys, perhaps. But he's a better QB in every other catagory. But he's not Joe Montana and unless he goes on a hell of a run... like a 3 SBs in a row kinda run... I don't see how he ever will be. He could be #2 when all is said and done. Manning's nowhere near finished and he's getting better. It's wise not to count him out yet. The dude can play.

Thats weird because i sligtly remember wayne not even being out of his cut when peyton threw the ball.

Whos fault is it that peyton missed a wide open collie 2 feet to the right of wayne? Is it collies fault he didnt wave his arms and jump up and down and let the "GOAT" realize he probably had around 10-15 yards of extra room to run?

Or perhaps its the olines fault that theyre too tall and got in the GOATs vision?

Maybe jim caldwells fault that he picked a bad play? Oh nevermind, peyton calls ALL of the plays, caldwells just a cheerleader.

Seriously, that was ALL manning. Noone made the decision to throw that ball but manning. Not wayne, or anyone else.

That INT was all Manning's fault.....but what the **** happened to that defense? They came out in the second half and played 10 yards off of the Saints WRs the entire time.

Give me a ****ing break.

Peyton Manning is a terrific QB who played a decent game, but was just one-upped by another outstanding QB.

These claims that this Super Bowl makes him any less of a QB are beyond ridiculous.

Super Bowls aren't easy to win. You have to have just the right level of talent on all sides of the ball and have just the right amount of bounces. Hell, even Tom Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl in umpteen years.

Peyton Manning is a clutch quarterback and I still think he goes down in history as the greatest QB of all time. Regardless of the fact that he (and not his coaching staff) is most responsible for the loss on Sunday.

Roethisberger is better than Manning because he has 2 rings / Certain factions of CP

Peyton Manning is a great quarterback. Joe Montana is the greatest quarterback of all time because he was great in clutch situations. Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls with eleven touchdown passes and ZERO interceptions.

Peyton Manning will eventually own all of the lifetime quarterback records if you exclude Super Bowls. When you include Super Bowls, Manning isn't even close to Montana.

dont u guys understand? wins mean nothing. its all bout statistics and how awesome your throws look. dumbasses

Who's better, Brady or Manning?

Put Brady on the Colts and Manning on the Pats and I'd bet Peyton Manning would have more SB's than Tom Terrific right now.

This.

you know how you can make this objective analysis dont you? by how awesome his passes look. i mean they just want to make me blow my load on the screen when ever he completes a 15 yard crossing pattern with clark.

THATS how i know hes better than brady

Montana has long been my go to answer for GOAT, but his teams were stacked to a point that modern QBs almost never get. Once FA and cap brought parity into the league, it made it difficult for anyone to eclipse the success that Montana had. I still think Peyton needs another SB or two, but he still definitely has time in his career to seal GOAT. Hell, if Favre's in the discussion, Manning sure as hell is. You wanna talk about season ending INTs...

Montana will always be the GOAT.

The passing game when Montana played and the passing game now are completely different.

I dont even know how to respond to this.

Pats won their sb's more so because of their defense, than Tom Terrific being great. That and the most clutch kicker I've ever seen in Vinatieri.

Peyton's been on some teams that have had defenses that are borderline, 2002 Chiefs bad. That 2003 game at Arrowhead where no one punted the entire game is a good example of that. Manning played great, but had to have a few things go their way for them to come out as winners in that game. Priest's fumble, the horse shit offensive PI call on TonyG (one of the most horse shit calls I've ever seen in my life btw) etc.

They're both great QB's. But I'd much rather have Manning as my signal caller. He's just a better QB.

So basically Matt Cassel is horrible then. No wins....shitty stats.

ROFL

No, but he has proven to be more clutch than peyton. Doesn't he have more comebacks than peyton despite playing in less games?
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yeah, true.

but from the standpoint of 'who would you rather have' as your QB, I think a majority would want Peyton.

they're different QBs with different skills and different offensive philosphies so the argument could be made either way.

I do like talking about these sort of things because there are good arguments for each.

I'd rather have peyton. I like the guy honestly. He's one of the best ever, but he is no montana to me. He has to prove that he's clutch in order to be considered in the same sentence. Roethlisberger has shown that he is clutch so in a 2 minute drill of a superbowl, id rather have him. But in all other areas, I take peyton.
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i'm pretty much of the same thought.

Based on what? His ability to choke in big games early in his career? The complete lack of elite offensive players around him (if he were playing for the Patriots), especially at the WR spot, until 2007? His inability (if he were playing for the Pats) to played in domes 9 games per year (8 at home, plus one in Texas) plus another game in perfect-weather-360-days-a-year-or-your-money-back-Jacksonville to help pad his stats, instead of playing in crappy New England weather, plus games in Buffalo and New York?

When splooging over his stats, remember what he's had to work with, and the inherent advantages he's had in his situation.

Favre's not in any discussion about the GOAT. Not in my book at least.

yeah im sure tom wouldnt be able to do anything with scrubasses like wayne, harrison, clark or james...:rolleyes:

I love Vinatieri, don't get me wrong, but was he that clutch when he blew two completely make-able field goals in one of his Super Bowls? He's made some of hte toughest kicks ever, but don't pretend for a second that he hasn't blown some big kicks too.

How has Brady's offensive weapons stacked up against Manning's? At least prior to 2007?

And you obviously didn't see our crappy 2002 defense, or what we've had going on this year.

you're a joke man...you really are

even THIS site has closed the book on the Manning/Brady debate...

have you noticed that this thread has shifted from Brady/Manning to GOAT?

I've always based these threads off of Brady/Manning...

and people have finally figured out that Brady can't even sniff Manning's jock...

sorry dude...

It's over.

That's why all you're seeing is Montana now...people hate Manning on this site...but they can no longer chuck Brady's name out there because they realized how much of a fraud he really is when it comes to the GOAT talk...

This argument is dead.

Try to follow along.

Harrison retires.

Enter Garcon and Collie.

Suddenly both look like all-pro caliber receivers...

Hmm...

Wonder what the common denominator is?

...and he FINALLY shows.

all things being equal id still rather have brady. just mo
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at least brady pre-pollard version
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I've made 50+ posts in this thread moron.

what has Brady done to make him a better QB than Manning?

Played on a better team his entire career that just so happened to cheat SO bad that the NFL had to destroy the evidence after seeing it to protect the integrity of the game?

Hmm...

Lets see...

The 2001 Patriots...14.5 point underdogs...hold a team that scores at will to 3 points through 3 quarters...

Yeah...

Tom Terrific had a lot to do with that game!

Here's the difference between the Colts and Patriots...

Peyton Manning pretty much has to WIN games for the Colts no matter what...he has to be clicking for that team to click...Tom just has to be there...he can be great, he can be good, he can be decent...it never really mattered.

I mean...in 2007 I said the team would have won 13 games with Cassel at QB...we got to see them win 11 the following year, then we get stuck with the scrub and give him $62M...

I mean...

That team made a lot of NFL teams want Matt freaking Cassel...

Yet people are STILL trying to say Tom Brady is one of the greatest ever?

Hahahaha...

how are you SO SURE that these guys are just streetrats? maybe its possible that theyre good. i know its a longshot, but its happened before.i bet you said the same thing about wayne when he had his first season.

ITS ALL MANNING :hail:

not to mention Peyton Manning officially has better postseason stats than Tom Brady now...

but Tom has more wins!

(Wonder why that is?)

If Joe Montana was a Saint for his entire career...how many Super Bowls would he have won?

If we want to go that route, what did peyton have to do with his lone championship?

throw a touchdown and watch the defense and running game go to work.

no but I have made the Kennison/Harrison argument for YEARS and was mocked...but then Garcon comes in and all of the sudden he looks an awful lot like an all-pro in the making?

Hmm...

But I bet it's just all Bill Polian.