I just don't see it, personally. I mean 67% is way too high to be realistic IMO. Also 'constantly' I guess is subjective...but I see him as more of a situational player. 3rd downs, maybe some second & longs, and as a slot receiver...I just dont see it adding up to a 36th overall this season for this team...

I really hope I am wrong though. (I hope he has enough talent and durability to do more).

We call that talking out of both sides of your mouth to defend anything, but this is why zilla has the Pioli ball washing gimmick, would you expect any less?

When borderline R1 talent is staring you in the face at you're greatest position of need, and you pass, it absolutely implies that.

Their hope is that coaching alone turns chicken shit into chicken salad.

The offense (other than QB, which they aren't going to address) wasn't the problem last year, IMO.

We averaged 22 points a game after the bye week.

That's enough points to win regularly, provided your defense is ranked 22nd or better.

Even with the refusal to address the QB problem, the additions of TJ, Lilja and Asomoah alone would have improved the offense. Which means you could have been very competitive by just improving the defense a bit.

Taking some combination of Daryl Washington, Koa Misi, Everson Griffen, Sergio Kindle, Linval Joseph, Sean lee and Terrence Cody would have dramatically improved this defense for the long haul.

Instead, we surround the so-called Franchise QB with weapons, which he'll need to score the 30+ PPG necessary to win games in 2010.

As I stated earlier, there are essentially three downs in which a player can participate. I'd expect McCluster to play on two of those three downs, which equates to 67%. If there's a longer series, that number obviously changes. But I certainly expect him to be on the field consistently.

As for the two tight end sets, I would have to think that Moeaki would be involved as the starting tight end, considering Pope, Cottam and O'Connell all suck at blocking (and O'Connell apparently sucks at everything).

Moeaki is going to be the only TE on the field. As long as he is healthy he is better than anything we currently have.

The only possible way this would be true is if 1) we ran 3wr sets 2 out of 3 downs AND he played in 100% of them.

I think you are fighting a losing argument here...

My argument has always been that if you have two players on the board that are closely rated, then you take the player that fills a need.

I can maybe get the McCluster pick in that scenario.
I could easily see that he was rated more highly by a substantial margin by Pioli than other players that filled other gaping holes.

But I simply can not see that with the Arenas pick.

Which offensive lineman from the 2009 draft in rounds 3-7 did the Chiefs pass up that would have made such a gigantic difference?

He can't, without taking snaps away from Charles, Chambers or Moeaki.

You can't run 3-wide AND 2 TE the majority of the time. It has to be one or the other.

How often did the Chiefs use three WR sets last year? Seemed like Weis did alot at ND.

LMAO Who was it? I hope it wasn't me LMAO

Why wouldn't he? He's already the best slot receiver on the team. Unless he's injured, would you prefer Urban or Long on the field?

You're the guy that could never shut the hell up about your hate for Herman ****ing Edwards, hypocrite.

I'd like someone to explain to me how the Chiefs are going to run two tight end sets without having two tight ends that can actually block and catch?

even if we used a 3wr set in the one of the 1st three downs in ever single series for the entire season it wouldn't be enough to have McCluster on the field 70 or 67% of the time....He will be lucky to be on the field 50-55% of downs 1-3.

Hell, I will consider it a huge success if he is on the field 55% of the 1st 3 downs and doesn't get his neck broken.

Defend that draft from last year, I dare you, it'll just make me laugh at you.

I can do the math. Nothing is stopping you from running a 2-back set in a 2-TE formation where you keep one receiver and motion another receiver into the slot, especially on running downs. You can run 2-TE sets on 3rd down situations where you keep McCluster in the backfield and motion him into the slot as a third receiver in an empty backfield. McCluster would be involved in all 3- or 4-WR sets where you keep one TE in the game (probably being Moeaki). And McCluster and Charles would both be in the game when the Chiefs run the wildcat, which I have a feeling we'll see a few times per game.

And ultimately, when Jones is gone, it will probably come to a point where Charles/McCluster will be splitting carries out of the set.

There is most definitely a way you can feature quite a few 2-TE sets and keep both Charles and McCluster involved in a lot of reps.

Haha Mecca dodges the question again.

Let's just call it what it is, we made several picks to make Matt Cassel look competent because Scott Pioli is not going to admit he screwed that up.

You also have to count if he is a PR or KR. I don't know which one he will be yet.

To be fair ytou dont need two TE's that can block and catch to run 2TE sets..You need one who can block, and one that can block / catch..

I think very little of Long and Urban, but you're getting a bit carried away here.

WR is widely considered the hardest position in the NFL to adjust from CFB to the pros, sans QB.

And this is a kid that by all accounts, rarely, if ever lined up in the slot for Ole Miss and ran a legit route. When he did line up in the slot, he either came through the backfield for a handoff, or as a prelude to a screen pass.

Now you're telling me that this kid is going to step right in at a position that is extremely difficult to adjust to in the pros, and be a significant piece of the puzzle?

He may down the road, but you're expecting way too much early, IMO.

People are comparing him to Welker, FFS. Wes Welker is a legit slot WR.

This guy is a RB we're converting to slot WR.

If he wants a simple answer...

Anyone capable of playing RG or RT would have helped us far more than any of the fools we picked, how about that?

You know, you've once again lost all of your credibility with me.

You ****ing talk in absolutes then when challenged, ask one of your stupid, passive-aggressive questions.

I'll ask you once again, which offensive lineman from rounds 3-7 did the Chiefs pass on, that would have made such a HUGE contribution.

I already admitted I was wrong about Urbick.

What the **** is wrong with you not being able to admit when you're wrong or not being able to back up your SHIT?

Hootie's right: You're a ****ing PHONY.

And I've just joined in with the other 11,997 Chiefsplanet members in laughing at YOU.

That's not his argument.

He's already said basically that it's indefensible.

#1 - he will probably get a few carries here and there, especially after Jones leaves
#2 - But lots of people think we should have gotten Golden Tate. Why do people think that was a great pick but that this pick is, for some reason, reserved only for a "part-time player"?
#3 - Why would his neck get broken? The kid's smaller, but he's not nearly the same size as Dante Hall. He's big and he's strong. I worry a lot more about Charles' durability than I do McCluster's.

Look at the senoir bowl tape. His transition shouldn't be too hard.

Who would have been capable of playing RG or RT?

Two TE's.

Two RB's.

One QB.

LT, LG, C, RG, RT.

ONE WR

Which in your scenario, leaves either Bowe or Chambers on the bench, because you can only put 11 players on the field.

:facepalm:

Like being Hootie for the weekend? Is it fun?

As I said, all you have to do is do the math. For us to achieve your concept of Mcluster being on the field 67% of downs 1-3 it would be impossible.

We would have to play 3wr sets 2/3 downs of (1-3)

He would have to be in every one of them.

He would have to not get tired or hurt doing this.

We could never not use anything but a 3wr formation...(in those 2/3 of the situations)


It just isn't going to work out like this....We will probably use a standard 2 wr formation at least 40% of downs 1-3 for one thing.

I could go on but I am hoping you will get the point and give this one up.

And why the hell wouldn't any of us want Cassel to be surrounded by playmakers that would make him look good?

McCluster has played WR. He was a WR his first two years at Ole' Miss.

And the slot receiver is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to transition into. Nickel backs play off and you typically don't have to worry about bumps and getting off the line of scrimmage, which is easily the biggest adjustment in the NFL. You also get a lot of screens and underneath stuff, which doesn't require flawless route running.

PLAYMAKERS!

We got them and I couldnt be happier with the draft...
Still problems left? Sure but there isnt enough rounds to fix everything!!!

BUT WE GOT PLAYMAKERS!

Let us know when the Chiefs have either.

:D

Look, I like the Moeaki pick because there's no one currently on the roster with his skillset when healthy. But I'm not about to proclaim him as a great player or a bust at this point in time.

The Chiefs really don't have a good blocking tight end on the roster. Despite the size of both Cottam and Pope, neither are good blockers. O'Connell needs to make a huge jump from last year, otherwise, he won't even have a roster spot.

So I think we're getting carried away with the notion of two tight end sets.

It's more fun that being an asshole who deals in absolutes

Beats the shit out of me... Hell I want Cassel to succeed and lead this team to a superbowl win.

mecca aside, Eric Wood and Andy Levitre were both starters for the Bills last season, and will be slated to start again, and should improve substantially with a season under their belt this year.

Jamon Merdith also took a lot of snaps for them and played credibly as an injury replacement at Rt, while Demtrius Bell looked like a guy with real upside who just needs to learn technique at LT.

That's 4 guys on one team.

Lets see...

Louis Vazquez is a starting guard for the Chargers
Antoine Caldwell would have been a solid pick
TJ Lang started games at LT for the Packers
Jamon Meredith started games at RT for Buffalo and could have even been had after the draft


Is that a sufficient enough list or should I add more?

DRAFTURBATOR CIVIL WAR

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress...-soldiers2.jpg

1. I can only speak for myself, by Golden Tate is a legit WR3 on day one, with the upside to be a WR2. McCluster is a RB being converted to WR3, who's upside is likely - a WR3.

2. Dante Hall weighed around 185 pounds. 15-18 pounds more than McCluster. And comparing him to Dante isn't good for the argument, considering Hall never amounted to anything at WR, and was only a factor in the return game for approximately 3 years.

We picked more defensive players than offense. If that argument were true we would have went offense in round 1.

We have used a shit ton of picks on defensive linemen the last few years at the expense of offensive play makers.

He's going to tell you some of those guys don't count....here it comes.

OTW did you watch any of the senoir bowl practices?

I guess that Ole Miss fan that was posting here is a blatant liar.

And considering that Alabama is as close as I come to having an allegiance to a CFB team, I see a lot of SEC football - and no, he wasn't.

I don't think it will happen frequently, but two TE sets and 2 WR sets will happen enough that will make your idea of McCluster seeing 67% of snaps on downs 1-3 impossible.

As I said, I would ****ign love to be wrong, because he would pretty much have to be a rookie sensation for this to happen over 16 weeks..meaning that even with the 36th pick overall he was a hell of a pick. I would love that, I just think the odds are grim.

PRACTICE? WE TALKIN' 'BOUT PRACTICE?

http://blog.pennlive.com/lvsports/2007/08/iverson.jpg

You can run a 2-WR set with dual backs and motion McCluster off to the slot, based on the matchup. You can use McCluster as the 2nd RB, which I expect to happen a few years in when Jones is through. You can use McCluster in a 2-TE set with 2 WRs and either run McCluster or motion him out of the backfield from an empty backfield set. You can use him in the wildcat. You're basically giving him slot receiver reps and adding in the capability to run in dual-back sets or as the primary RB when Charles needs a blow.

And I expect he'll return kicks, while Arenas returns punts.

It's not a full-time player. But they'll find a way to get the kid on the field an awful lot.

Levitre was taken in the second, so he doesn't count. Wood was a guard, Meredith was picked up on waivers from GB and Bell might be good someday.

None of those guys were particularly special and I think it's safe to say (especially in the case of Meredith, since they had a chance to claim him) that the Chiefs didn't like any of them.

And as I mentioned earlier, I'd take Asamoah over any of them.

It's like the linebacker thing this year: I don't think that any of the guys available at #36 or #50 were "special" players, just good prospects.

Dane can be stubborn and a pit bull., but I also think he's also reasonable when presnted with legitimate evidence.

I need to go cook some dinner.

I'll check back in later tonight or tomorrow.

Unlike some of you, my opinions won't change.

I like Benn a lot...I think Benn fell because of Juice Williams.

Tate? Meh. I do like Tate...but I think he has a much better chance of being a bust than McCluster...

I can't believe everyone isn't simply STOKED that we added a guy with McCluster's skill set and we're going to use him in the slot...

That guy is amazing in space...and that's what the Chiefs are going to try and do...get him the ball and let him do his thing...

It'll make Cassel's job a hell of a lot easier, too.

McCluster can MOST DEFINITELY make Cassel a better player...

Does Tate possess that ability? I don't think so...

Oh come on man his transition to slot WR won't be as difficult as you suggest it's not like those guys were ****ing around at Senoir Bowl practice. The guy is a Wr.

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Vasquez was a 6th and he was forced into starting duty. He wasn't exactly "special", he was just a guy.

TJ Lang was so good that he's been replaced by Bulaga.

Jamon Meredith was waived and picked up by the Bills who have arguably the worst line in all of football.

The bottom line is that while last year's offensive line crop was touted as "deep", none of those guys found from rounds 3-7 were exactly "special" players or players that the Chiefs should "regret" passing on.

I agree with everything you said for the most part. (Except in a 2 TE set you usually only have 1WR so thats an extra man on the field) I agree he will be useful as a situational player, all of those things you mentioned are what I consider to be situational. I am not saying he wont be good for those roles, what I am saying is he won't be an every down (67% of downs 1-3) type of player....I think we shouldve drafted a non-situational player with 2a.

All of that being said, I would love to be wrong...

So the Bills who finished behind KC in EVERY offensive category have a bunch of potentially good players on their OL that should only get better after a year under their belt.

This belief is based on what?

that's because you, Mecca and hamas aren't Chiefs fans...you're just pessimistic assholes who like to think they know more than they really do...

it's funny that everyone loves what the Chiefs did except for the pessimistic little band of know-it-alls on chiefsplanet.com who apparently don't, well, know anything.

As I pointed out already you are not counting special teams

We aren't talking about who Pioli would have picked, we are talking about guys that were in last years draft that were passed that would have helped.

I couldn't remember what rounds any of these guys were taken, I simply named guys that would have helped this O-Line, regardless of what Pioli might have done.

Were they special?
No.

Were they pretty good?
Yes.

And who the hell was Pioli going to pick up on waivers?

Leaves falling from the ****ing tree.

Some of your opinions should change if you're faced with the stark reality that they we're dead ****ing wrong.

An opinion is just that, not an absolute.

I sat next to OTWP for 4 hours last year at the Cowboys game and he is as much a Chiefs fan as anyone...when Bowe caught that TD we had a big gay group hug with TinyE.

STFU

Meh I don't love wha the Chiefs did I think they could have drafted some other good players. This team could hav been a great young team instead I think they compete for six to eight wins.

I guess this is kind of off topic, but if your opinions won't change, why do you bother coming here? To give us all your opinion and try to change everyone else's opinion without considering the opinions of others?

That is pretty strange if you ask me....something to keep in mind when reading your posts for sure.

I would kiss you after every Chiefs touchdown.

Vazquez was a 4th and won the Chargers RG job, how is that being forced into starting?

No, I understand what you're saying. But Mecca said that Pioli did the same think as last year, ignoring the "strength" of the draft, this year drafting offense instead of defense. Last year, he drafted defense instead of offense (in this case, Mecca specifically stated offensive line).

What I'm saying is that last year's class that was touted as being so great, really wasn't "great" from rounds 3-7. Urbick's a failure in Pittsburgh. Very few of the later picks are anything other than just "guys", nothing the Chiefs (or us as fans) should regret they passed on.

Based on the fact that their all talented guys.

4 rookies on an offensive line in a game where anyone will tell you that good line play requires chemistry, and chemistry takes time to develop.

But then you knew that, I'm sure.

well then he should watch that video Billay just posted and realize...

McCluster >> Tate

Digler go back and read the other posts, we were talking only about downs 1-3 which last time I checked did not include special teams.

(edit if you want to include special teams and 4th downs the number will go MUCH much lower than 55% though, let alone 67%))

the Chargers were one of the worst run blocking teams in the NFL...

which is one reason LDT is a HUGE sleeper for the Jets this year...

1200 yards and 15 TDs

People who take Shonn Greene in the 1st round are going to be disappointed...

A lot of people would have been satisfied with taking a slot receiver like Tate. I would have. And McCluster can give you a LOT more reps than Tate. And the difference between the two is that McCluster gives the defense some pause as to whether a play could be a run or a pass. A lot of teams have been running 4-WR sets. There's a distinct difference between running that play out of an empty backfield with no RBs, and having a 3-WR set with a RB who motions into a 4th WR slot. Same goes with any running down.

So again, I think you're ruling out multiple instances where he lines up as a RB then motions into the slot. And 2-3 years down the road when he's playing a lot of snaps as the primary RB, when Charles needs a rest.

He could potentially get about the amount of reps as a slot receiver + #2 back. Not 67%. But a pretty hefty workload.

Actually, Vasquez was a third and he won the job because Forney was injured.

And I hardly think he was "special", considering the Chargers inability to run the ball successfully last year.

Jamaal Charles and Dexter McCluster on the field at the same time is a scary ****ing thought for any defensive coordinator...

McCluster is going to make Cassel look so much better...

I think Wood will develop into a solid player and it's possible that Meredith does as well. I can't believe that the Bills will go into this season without making a trade for a left tackle because it's a serious need for them.

That being said, I'm not upset that the Chiefs didn't take one of those guys, especially considering the moves they've made this offseason.

Hootie. Listen.

I'd be thrilled with it if we hadn't passed on guys that would solve our pass rushing and/or ILB issue for the next decade.

It will make most fans happy, because they loved Grandpa Dick's Circus Offense, and were content scoring 30 PPG and losing.

I want to see some balance, and as I showed earlier, though no one wants to admit it, the offense was much farther along going into Thrusday night than the defense was.

Do you really look at me that way? Because I don't love what we did. If you do, that's fine, but it would surprise me.

I don't hate what we did the way I did on Friday and Saturday, and I'm not driving post after post about it because it's pointless IMO.

I sure as hell hope so.

Cassel needs all the help he can get.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. Just defending my own.

ok fair enough