You forgot the defense.

He mentioned defense you dense stupid ****er.

He is so far above Cassel it's crazy. That being said, Orton is probably a slightly above average QB. Last year in Denver he had no running game and no defense. This year they got rid of all their good WR's and Denver is winning by gimmick though I think their defense and running game is pretty good. Tebow will not be their answer unless he gets a lot better throwing the ball.

Back to Orton though, pocket presence, goes through progressions and throws a good ball. The first long pass he hit to Pope he pump faked to the right, waited for the double-move to open, when it didn't he immediately went to the other side of the field where our TE was wide open 30 yards down field and threw a laser.

Cassel could never do that.

Albert jumps 1 or 2 times a game?

He has 6 false starts, you useless dumbass.

Do you ever talk football. All night all you do is throw shit. You have nothing resembling insight or rebuttal. What? You dont think peope recognize that you cant argue, so you just throw a fit insted. thats weak shit, bud. If you cant run with the big dogs, keep your ass on the porch.

I talk football way more than your dumbass, but why spend my time with an argument when a dumb ****er like you who knows nothing about football. I have argued with your dumbass for along time but you are just a stupid ****ing idiot.

Don't post stupid comments and this wont happen.

He has more than anyone else. Or at least it seems like it.

I guess Cassels not as bad as we thought then, huh? Seeing as how its his fault for jumping. And you calling anyone a dumbass is a riot. It also means Im winning the debate. Dont be angry.

It hasn't been that difficult.

I guess Ill go to bed now. You're free to insult me, throw up BS stats or anything else you would do knowing Im not here. Have a great night and an even better Christmas.

God Bless you.

Oh, I see. Im being puinished.LMAO

Pope probably has more and is in less.

Sorry.

Its pretty obvious going back and looking at your previous football posts, you're waayyy too smart for me. Carry on studLMAO

I am way smarter than you especially about football.

You might be right. According to some, you can blame Cassel for him false starting. Pope shouldnt be held accountable for jumping.

I don't mince words with the kind of subtle insults you were throwing around.

I was debating civilly until you threw out the third or fourth insult.

I simply returned volley, dumbass.

Jake Long has 5 false starts this season.

He sucks, too, right?

Uh huh.

Im impressed.

Ive only been involved with football for the last 35 years. One thing I did learn however, is that you dont know everything watching football on TV. Especially, grading players.

I know enough to know you're full of shit as a human being. How could i not know that with the post count you have.

But I could definately still learn more about football.

Jake Long = Brandon Albert?

Ill take your word for it.

Or wait.....do you mean Jake Long is a victim of poor QB play so he false starts because of it?

Which is it?

Ill check your answer in the morning bro.

Go fist yourself you worthless cock sucker.

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject as well.

I honestly don't get the logic behind thinking trading up for a QB sets this franchise back years if he busts. With the new rookie cap, these players don't cost nearly as much. Also the only way to truly see how giving up that many picks could set us back is to assume every pick we made was a pro bowler or solid starter. Not once has this team ever had that type of success in any draft. Honestly I would give up our entire 2009 draft for a player like Luck or RGIII, although many people would have thought that foolish because that could set this franchise back or it would be too much to give up for one guy.

The big issue I have is the other solution. There were/are those afraid of doing so yet are fine investing years in Cassel or perhaps a year or two in Orton. They are willing to gamble years for them but not the rookie. Has either done enough in the past to think the risk of letting them try to win a SB is lower than doing so with a young QB?

Nope. But the fear of a first round QB busting on this team has scared many away from wanting to do it and instead they want to try and win with a retread QB. Never mind that players at all positions in the first round bust, if they do you just try again, but heaven forbid a QB do it. We might go winless or not sniff the playoffs for decades to follow. I am just glad those fans are few and far between.

I haven't read this whole thread, but if Orton is the answer, the question should be rephrased.

Albert has jumped offsides 5 times all year.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=8792&team=12

He is a fine left tackle.

Explain this:

Offensive Line Pass Blocking Efficiency
The Pro Football Focus "Pass Blocking Efficiency" rating measures pressure allowed on a per-snap basis with weighting toward sacks allowed.

http://i40.tinypic.com/24wfu48.jpg

Oh?

Explain this.

Offensive Tackle Pass Blocking Efficiency
The Pro Football Focus "Pass Blocking Efficiency" rating measures pressure allowed on a per-snap basis with weighting toward sacks allowed.

http://i44.tinypic.com/flak1s.jpg

Keep showing stats like that and you might just convince someone that we don't need to draft a LT in the first round.

Crazyhorse = Owned

Pittsburgh Steeler rookie ORT Marvel Smith "allowed" three sacks in his opening start to Courtney Brown. The first was a bull rush where the QB ran into Brown while escaping another defender, and Smith's protection held almost 5 full seconds. The second, Smith blocked down and let Brown go free. The third was another case where the QB held the ball too long, and then essentially scrambled right into Brown again.

Marvel Smith did extremely well his opening start. He "allowed" three sacks on your BS "chart..."

David Stewart!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Gets help almost every time in pass protection - has since Shawn Lights Out torched him badly in the playoffs a few years ago...

Clearly, Cleveland is Super Bowl bound.

What the **** are you even talking about?

Marvel Smith doesn't play for the Steelers.

His rookie year was 2000, and PFF wasn't even in existence.

HE'S NOT EVEN IN THE LEAGUE ANYMORE.

BS Chart?

You can leave out the O for OLT and ORT. We are well aware that you are referring to the offensive line.

And he could have left the B off of BS.

When referring to sacks, LT and RT could have a very different meaning.

You don't just pick any swinging dick, but I'll let you in on a little secret: every QB prospect has flaws, and if this fanbase has demonstrated anything, it's the ability to say, "yeah, well, I'm not ready to draft a guy who lacks _____" where the blank changes every year. There are certain guys like Jamarcus Russell who should send up huge red flags to anyone, but you can't sit here and honestly say that the Chiefs have tried to make QB a priority in the draft. If they had, they would have either drafted one when he fell to or near them, or traded up for one.

We're not talking about taking Jim Druckenmiller or Landry Jones b/c he's the highest rated guy, it's realizing the importance of the position and doing everything possible to get the guy you think has the goods. It's precisely the opposite of settling.

I think that's true, however, if he's going to have flaws, I would rather they be physical ones-NOT mental/character issues.

You could see the Russell flameout coming a mile away.

I'd take an Andy Dalton, for instance, over a Blaine Gabbert or a Ryan Mallett. All have flaws, but I think Dalton's got the better chance to be a long term plus player at the most important position.

ROFL
Posted via Mobile Device

All of the other BS aside, PFF would have credited Smith with ONE sack.

The 2 times the QB scrambled into the defender would have been credited TO THE QUARTERBACK.

You obviously don't have a clue how PFF does their analysis.

I never said his pass blocking skills were poor. I said it seems like he is jumping all the time. Maybe he dont. Maybe it just seemed that way to me. Maybe he does it at crucial times.

What I did say however is that our O line was one of the worst in the league. That they graded out poorly. Then I put up the numbers to support it.

Staying on point seems to be a real problem around here. Every point winds up as some type of circle jerk that seldom stays on the original post. Its like you're talking to a biunch of stoned idiots or children that are offended.

The point I was trying to make in my original post (before the circle jerk) was that there are more problems on this offense than the QB. The O line is just as much to blame if not more than the QB. Somehow that has offended some here. So here are the arguements I have heard so far to dispute that post.

You suck.
Cassel sucks
Cassel sucks
Cassel sucks
Cassel sucks
Brandon Albert rocks
And who could forget the assorted name calling
A couple more Cassel sucks
Another Brandon Albert is top 5 LT
And my favorite, Brandon Alberts false starts are Cassels fault.


In the end I just have to say, if anyone actually thinks this is a good O line, they havent watched the same games I have. A good line is what we had when Holmes was here and Green was the QB. The right side of our line might be the worst in the game today. Not sure if they are or not, but they are pretty bad. I dont give a damn what the numbers are. The unit as a whole is rated at the bottom of the league.

As for Cassel. I agree, he's a middle of the road QB on his best day.

Im not sure what we are even argueing about. It seems like you people are high or something. I remember my 1st joint. I wasnt so confrontational. I laughed more. But it was hard to stay focused. My mind wondered. Very much like the average thread on CP.

Just in case its me lets make it simple. Maybe you're right and Im wrong. Maybe Im unreasonable. So let me recap just in case.

My basic original post.

1. Cassels sucks
2. The O line sucks

There you go.

If you disagree, I am more than willing to debate it with you on a reasonable basis. If you just want to argue for the sake of argueing, save it for those that love you. If you want to call a bunch of names, you're welcome to do so. But I'll just blow you off as someone who has lost the debate and deflecting.

I am willing to conceed that Albert dont jump as often as I thought. Maybe he just does it at the worst time and it stuck out to me. Either way, I never said he was the whole problem. He is part of the problem though.

Albert is not the problem.

And could you be any more vague in your argument?

Oh....and HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME STATS TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT!?!? YOU'RE WRONG!

I just meant they may not be the absolute worst, but they are close. I agree, Albert is not the worst of the bunch. However, there's room for improvement. I guess I've been spoiled over the years with the o lines of the past. Right now, he might be our best. Whatever thats worth.

They don't grade out poorly, though.

They grade out very well.

I've actually wondered how much Haley's fitness requirements have actually made it harder for the OL and DL play their positions. There are some positions where the added weight is a bonus.

hindsight makes you wicked smaht

Yeah, those o lines of the past that didn't accomplish a damn thing.

Albert would be better if he were 20 pounds heavier. Same goes for most of our O-line.

Neither is former #1 overall pick Courtney Brown, genius...

It doesn't change the reality that stat parroting produces inaccurate results. The claim that Dave Stewart is good in pass protection is a tribute to the idiocy of your spreadsheet. But you have to be able to understand the football you watch...

I'm curious.

What did your spreadsheet say about the current NFL sack leader three years ago when he was here??

Indeed, I don't and I really don't care, since it is "subjective" then, the sack issue.

And anything that claims Dave Stewart is a good pass blocker is clearly wrong, and it is absolutely pathetic anyone would stand by such a stupid statement...

I'm glad you have more insight into the game than a site that is used by NFL teams themselves...and charges for their insight....produced by dozens of individuals who have fine-tuned their product for five years.

ROFL

The number 1 offense in the legue, in itself is quite an accomplishment. If i were an OL in the NFL I would take pride in being the best in the game.

A meaningless footnote.

Spoken like Wilt Chamberlain.

You mean like when it happened in 2005 with Aaron Rogers and we passed....even when we had a 36 year old quarterback at the helm?

We are already at the point that for the next 5 or 6 years we NEED for someone to drop or for us to trade up to get a good quarterback.

This defense and the skill position players we have on offense are already too good to let us lose enough games to be in the top 5-8 picks anymore.

This team needs a young quarterback that it can believe in and grow with for the next 10 years to take advantage of the talent the team has damn near everywhere else.

Before its gone.

And while I do believe Stanzi, I dont think having he and Orton is enough to stop looking.

I want a real shot at WINNING championshipS...not MAYBE getting to ONE if EVERYTHING else falls into place.

Yeah, what's with it? Clown school.....

Apparently one good game against one of the worst defenses in the league doesn't mean much. How shocking. Orton is a lot closer to Cassel than people want to believe.

Orton sure looks better than Trent Green today. DAMN.

You dont hitch your franchise to Kyle Orton..

cassel may even be better than orton

orton clearly lost us the game today

Take cover!

Dexter bailed out Orton on that drive....

happy to be proved wrong today but the overall point remains

you cannot leave the franchise in the hands of man like orton

this game is on orton a decent game from him and we would have won this 31-10

what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk?

Its pretty obvious... He isnt the answer...

Mediocre QB shows his true stripes.

Water is wet

While I agree that Orton is a mediocre QB, and not the answer at QB for this team, this game was lost because the idiots in charge think that TwoYardTJ is the man to give the ball to in the red zone.

For as bad a game as he played, you clearly can't put this on him. He put them in a position to win. Cmon, guys.

Heh, does anyone even realize Orton threw for 300 yards again?

Dude is great at putting up hollow stats.

I said last week when if he throws 4 INTs no one will won't him to be the QBOTF

Thing is, he didn't play bad enough to not get resigned next year and you guys won't get a QB.

Orton has two 300-yard games in two starts....

Cassel has three 300-yard games in his entire KC career.

LMAO

Orton is what he is.

A mediocre game manager who won't win you games.

Technically, he has 1.

yet people want this moron as head coach.

Because he's better than the last moron I guess?? Dumbfounded by the TJ over Battle and even McClain in the redzone as well......

Running battle or Jones is an embarrassment at any point during a game.

That 4th down play was garbage.

Yep, that was the worst playcall I have seen in years.

Your a ****ing idiot!!