I agree.

Skelton, and to a lesser extent, but better than Cassel, Kolb, can get the ball downfield.

There's the disadvantage that Bowe has to contend with with Matt Cassel.

What's interesting is that Cassel rated last in downfield accuracy (I think 25% completion rate in 2010), while Anderson was something like 40%.

The problem is that Anderson completed about 40% of his intermediate passes where Cassel completed about 55%.

Here's what's interesting about comparing Bowe and Fitzgerald. Anderson is significantly better than Cassel at the downfield stuff, which is Fitzgerald's strength. Cassel was significantly better than Anderson at the intermediate stuff, which is Bowe's strength.

Doesn't really sway the argument either way. But it's still kind of interesting.

Thing is I think sometimes a specific player gets huge TDs because is the first and only spot a QB looks. With a QB that can spread the ball(realitivly speaking with Orton) the TD "wealth" may be spread more.

AFC West salary-cap numbers
February, 13, 2012 Feb 132:50PM ETEmail Print Comments15By Bill WilliamsonThe long-awaited salary-cap numbers for 2012 have been computed, according to ESPN’s John Clayton.

Free agency starts March 13. Let’s look at the current numbers for each AFC West team:

Denver

Salary-cap situation: $50.735 million under.

Comment: The Broncos can do whatever they want. It begins with in-house free agents Brodrick Bunkley and Matt Prater. The new Denver regime has said it will not spend wildly just to spend, so don’t expect any crazy sprees.

Kansas City

Salary-cap situation: $62.995 million under.

Comment: Scott Pioli’s Chiefs’ has always been in good cap shape. He has been criticized for not doing much, though. Pioli has concentrated on role players. Maybe this is the year he makes a huge splash. Because of the cap room there is no reason the Chiefs can’t keep both Dwayne Bowe and Brandon Carr.

Oakland

Salary-cap situation: $11 million over.

Comment: The Raiders are one of four teams still over the cap. They will easily get under the cap, but the question is how much room will they clear up? They will need to do some things, though, because of their lack of draft picks. I think, in the end, the Raiders will be able to pick up some quality players in free agency.

San Diego

Salary-cap situation: $9.2 million under.

Comment: The Chargers can make some more room, starting with cutting tackle Marcus McNeill. General manager A.J. Smith hasn’t made many big splashes in free agency. He may have to do so some things this year as he enters a critical season. The Chargers have several in-house free agents to address as well.

hmmmmmmmm http://echointhehead.blogspot.com/20....html?spref=tw

I just posted that in another thread.



So.. repost.

the more public that information gets the more embarrassed Hunt will be


maybe he will encourage some spending


of course they can hide most of it but maybe they will make a splash

"The Chiefs do not have that problem. We have to think of it in terms of accountability. Chiefs can account for more money than any team in the NFL. Chiefs can give a 10 million dollar roster bonus to Carr, a 5 million dollar base, and guarantee the base salaries against injury the first two years. That guarantees the contract for a little over 20 million the first 2 years. Non guarantee the final 4 years of the contract and that's a 6 year 50 million dollar contract. If that isn't enough then add a 5 million dollar signing bonus. The Chiefs have the same years, length, and money invested, but the accounting would be different than most teams."


Why the **** doesnt this FO just do something like that with that much space, throw a bunch of money at him, and who gives a **** with so much cap space by year 3 his contract wont matter because it was all front loaded and Carr gets his money. Everyone wins.

Until now Cassel has been a more affordable version of Mark Sanchez. If we pay him the rest of the way we are even dumber than the Jets were

In 2012 the chiefs have to be 5% or closer to the max to roll anything over to 2013.Chiefs need to spend this offseason.

Wait a second?

Are you basically saying that the Chiefs have to spend $20M pretty much immediately or have to account for the $30M in rollover money THIS season?

If so, that's a pretty big reason for hope right there. Clark may or not be cheap but he's not stupid...

Yup if there not within 5% of the max they cant roll anything over in 2013.

I brought this exact point up a day or two ago.

It's not a matter of cheap or not, it's a matter of required spending regardless of the lacking cap floor.

I think it got glossed over because NLT too many people here get that much into it. I'd guess that less than 50 posters understand the ramifications of the new rules in relation to our upcoming christmas morning type spending.

The way I understood it, though...that 5% figure has to reached by YEARS END...not the start.

Then they should sign both Bowe and Carr.....and front load the shit out of their deals.

Expect for Sanchez doesn't shit himself in the playoffs.

Do you have a link for this?

Hunt is quoted as saying they are using that roll over money for this year and next year.

Let's hope. I've become jaded enough to think that they're going to be 35-40 million under when the season starts, minus either Bowe or Carr. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Thats because cassel never played college football. Hes a pussy. You dont win superbowls with qbs who barely played in college

But IF he ever does you know who will been seen as the God of the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if Pioli is dreaming that way.

So we have to get to what number? What is within 5 percent of the cap? Is it the cap with the rollover money from last year or the original cap without it?

Chiefs have $37 million of salary cap room

As free agency approaches, Chiefs have $37 million of cap space and Bowe, Carr among players without deals.


By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star



With more than $37 million of available salary-cap room, the Chiefs have the ability to re-sign both Dwayne Bowe and Brandon Carr, their top potential unrestricted free agents. They could also sign Peyton Manning and any number of other players who might come available when free agency begins on March 13.

General manager Scott Pioli didn’t indicate whether the Chiefs would do all or any of that. But he did say the Chiefs planned to be active in free agency.

“There are a number of things we want to get done,” Pioli said. “We want to field a good football team in 2012 and also make sure we don’t do things with the cap in 2012 and 2013 that impact our ability to continue to field good football teams. So 2012 is important but you never want to look at it in a one-year-only snapshot.”

The NFL has yet to set a team salary cap for 2012 but teams are expecting it to be about the same as last year, when it was $120,375,000. The Chiefs have an extra $24,014,337 under their cap, the amount they didn’t spend under last year’s cap. So, using last year’s figure as a guide, the Chiefs have $144,389,337 to spend under their salary cap.

Salary figures provided to The Kansas City Star show the Chiefs with cap commitments totaling $107,009,195, leaving them with $37,380,142 in available salary cap space.

The Chiefs are under no NFL obligation to use all of their available cap room. Under the new collective bargaining agreement signed last summer, teams are free to spend as little or as much of their available cap space as they wish.

If they can’t come to a contract agreement with either Bowe, their top wide receiver, or Carr, a starting cornerback, before free agency begins, the Chiefs face a dilemma. They can make one player but not both their franchise player.

Such a move would effectively keep that player off the free agent market. Next season’s cost of making Bowe the franchise player would be about $9.5 million. For Carr, that number would be about $10.4 million.

“We’re hoping to keep all of our good players,” Pioli said when asked whether the Chiefs planned to keep Carr and Bowe.

The Chiefs have 19 other players who don’t yet have a contract for next season. Some, like quarterback Tyler Palko, are dispensable.

They might like to have several others back. That list would include Jovan Belcher, a starting inside linebacker.

The list of individual salary cap numbers is another indication the Chiefs are weighted to the defensive side of the ball. Linebacker Tamba Hali, linemen Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson and cornerback Brandon Flowers have the four highest cap numbers. Quarterback Matt Cassel is fifth and safety Eric Berry is next.

The Chiefs’ cap is also relatively free of waste. They have just $62,000 in so-called dead money against their cap this year. Dead money is a portion of bonus money given to players released after June 1 last year.

San Diego is the next lowest team in dead money with $228,402. The league average is about $4.65 million and the Cowboys have about $24.5 million in dead money.

“It’s called dead money for a reason, because it’s useless against your cap,” Pioli said. “It’s for players who are no longer with your football team.

“You’re never going to eliminate it completely because we’re going to make mistakes. But you want to limit that as much as possible and make your dollars useful

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/18...#storylink=cpy

When Carl Peterson made comments like this, it felt like some smarmy used car salesman trying to blow smoke. When Pioli talks, I feel as if whatever he says, the exact opposite should be believed.

“There are a number of things we want to get done,” Pioli said. “We want to field a good football team in 2012 and also make sure we don’t do things with the cap in 2012 and 2013 that impact our ability to continue to field good football teams. So 2012 is important but you never want to look at it in a one-year-only snapshot.”

...

Translation:

I'm not gonna pay Carr more than I think he is worth.

Also from the KC Star...

The NFL has yet to set a team salary cap for 2012, but teams are expecting it to be about the same as last year: $120,375,000. The Chiefs also have $24,014,337 they didn’t use against their 2011 cap that they can use in 2012.
So the Chiefs’ adjusted salary cap for 2012 is $144,389,337.
Subtracting total salary cap obligations of $107,009,195 (explained below), that leaves the Chiefs with $37,380,142 of available cap room. The top 51 cap numbers count against the salary cap.

Salary cap obligations

• Players: The Chiefs have 48 players under contract with total cap obligations of $101,941,980.

P Player Base salary Cap (inc. bonuses)
LB Tamba Hali $11,250,000 $14,500,000
DE Tyson Jackson $8,005,000 $10,755,000
DE Glenn Dorsey $5,856,000 $8,193,000
CB Brandon Flowers $5,750,000 $8,000,000
QB Matt Cassel $5,250,000 $7,575,000
DB Eric Berry $4,842,800 $5,200,500
RB Jamaal Charles $3,250,000 $4,833,333
WR Steve Breaston $2,050,000 $4,550,000
OL Branden Albert $2,717,500 $3,793,125
LB Derrick Johnson $3,000,000 $3,250,000
OL Ryan Lilja $2,100,000 $2,493,750
PK Ryan Succop $2,000,000 $2,400,000
LB Demorrio Williams $1,500,000 $2,300,000
P Dustin Colquitt $1,800,000 $2,280,000
WR Jon Baldwin $718,255 $1,716,273
LB Andy Studebaker $1,480,000 $1,530,000
RB Dexter McCluster $540,000 $1,100,000
WR Terrance Copper $825,000 $900,000
DB Javier Arenas $490,000 $848,750
OL Rodney Hudson $504,368 $796,841
LS Thomas Gafford $650,000 $741,668
LB Brandon Siler $700,000 $725,000
OL Jon Asamoah $490,000 $718,030
DB Donald Washington $565,000 $694,947
TE Tony Moeaki $490,000 $661,662
LB Justin Houston $465,000 $657,812
DE Allen Bailey $465,000 $628,986
TE Jake O’Connell $615,000 $615,000
CB Jalil Brown $465,000 $592,325
LB Cory Greenwood $540,000 $566,250
DB Kendrick Lewis $490,000 $541,725
WR Jeremy Horne $540,000 $540,000
DB Kyle McCarthy $540,000 $540,000
QB Ricky Stanzi $465,000 $528,763
DT Jerrell Powe $465,000 $492,670
OL Steve Maneri $490,000 $490,000
DL Brandon Bair $465,000 $467,333
LB Caleb Campbell $465,000 $465,000
OL Darryl Harris $465,000 $465,000
OL David Mims $465,000 $465,000
DL Anthony Toribio $465,000 $465,000
LB Cameron Sheffield $415,000 $463,612
LB Gabe Miller $390,000 $450,625
FB Shane Bannon $390,000 $390,000
OL Rob Bruggeman $390,000 $390,000
RB Shaun Draughn $390,000 $390,000
WR Jamar Newsome $390,000 $390,000
DL Lucas Patterson $390,000 $390,000

• So-called “dead money”: NFL teams are obligated to count bonus money given to players released after June 1 against their salary cap. The Chiefs released 10 such players last season for a total of $62,215 in dead money.

P Player Cap number
FB Shane Bannon $38,544
OL Mike Ingersoll $4,667
TE Charlie Gantt $3,334
OL Davis Mims $3,334
DE Lucas Patterson $3,334
LB Amara Kamara $2,667
OL Butch Lewis $2,334
OL Chris Harr $1,667
CB Demond Washington $1,667
WR Josue Paul $667

• Other obligations: The Chiefs have a charge against their salary cap of $5,005,000 for incentives that were earned by DE Tyson Jackson and S Eric Berry.

Players without contracts
• The following 21 players have no contract for 2012:
RB Jackie Battle
TE Anthony Becht
LB Jovan Belcher
WR Dwayne Bowe
CB Brandon Carr
CB Travis Daniels
DE Wallace Gilberry
DL Amon Gordon
DL Kelly Gregg
RB Thomas Jones
DB Reshard Langford
FB Le’Ron McClain
DB Jon McGraw
OL Ryan O’Callaghan
QB Kyle Orton
QB Tyler Palko
DB Sabby Piscitelli
TE Leonard Pope
OT Barry Richardson
WR Jerheme Urban
C Casey Wiegmann

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/18...#storylink=cpy

Dammit free agency CANNOT start soon enough. Even if my worst fears are realized, at least I'll know.

Atleast you can live your life right now without looking and checking for updates every 53 seconds which is what will happen when FA begins.

Ugh.... good point. I guess I can't wait until it's over.

Sabby Piscitelli is without a contract?! THAT'S BLASPHEMY!!!!!

I mentioned this in the Stanford Routt thread about the way contracts actually count against the cap.

Carr getting a deal isn't going to put "1/4th of the cap in our secondary". Not even close actually, even if he were to get accelerated bonuses like Flowers.

Dorsey and Jackson are grossly overpaid.

Slacker!

The roughly 2 million they paid Orton for 3 games looks like an opulent extravagance in comparision

This part kind of stuck out to me when I read rhis article. This COULD be a sign they have been trying to set themsleves up to be in good shape financially for a long term run and have all their $ available to pay players that will be on the team. Carr and Bowe for example.

Thats smart buisness as long as they keep spending $ and start spending it on some impact FA players as well.

As soon as they start to pay the big bucks for FAs
they get accused of being cheap to run Haley out of town LOL

It's amazing how that available cap number has shrunk 26 mil in 9 days and money hasn't been spent.

This.

WTF is going on>?

The rest is under Clark's couch cushions.

Knock off another 5 for rookies

That's how I've seen it all along. Now, if they let one of those guys go :mad:

I would bet big that if the Chiefs do NOT utilize at east most of their available $37mm estimated cap, the Arrowhead fan base will take a gigantic hit. I hope Clark realizes that once you lose fan, it is hard to get them back.

You think Clark might not be taking money from the players side of revenues, which he can do until the 2013 fiscal year? The salary floor was put in because of the Chiefs and Hunt not spending enough on salaries, but keeping the money himself

The article didn't take into account the roll over.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes it did.

Read the above again.

thank god...

It's an easy way for Clark to make an additional 30 million before the cap floor begins.

no shit...

Oh. Well I take it as Teicher not knowing wtf hes talking about.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sabby should have a contract to selling 1800 Tequila. Football, not so much.

that's an insult to anyone enjoying 1800 Tequila. nttawwt.

Yep. The nature of where they were drafted. I'd be willing to bet we're seeing the last of Glenn Dorsey in a Chiefs uniform...

Sadly, the fact that we have so much cap space takes the sting out of paying a mediocre player like Cassel a huge salary the next two years.

Nah, he just looks like he should have been on the Sopranos.

For a QB, Cassel has a pretty low number the next two years.

I'm not falling for this...

Supposedly, Glenns brother said before last season that Glenn was gonna ask to be traded to a 4-3 team after last year (during this offseason)

Lets see if that comes to fruition.

If we could move him for a 2nd or 3rd rounder, I would be ok with that.

Move Dorsey and sign Carr and Bowe and we are in fine shape as far as cap and draft picks.

If we do keep Dorsey, I'd like to see us use more penetrating schemes like we did against Denver last year, last game of the year.


He made alot of plays playing that way.

For an average/below average qb, he is overpaid.

Cassel is 16th in base salary for 2012. Flacco and Fitzpatrick are lower in base salary but will make more than him for 2012. Kevin Kolb is also going to make more than him, nearly double. Everyone else, unless I missed someone, is a backup or on a rookie contract. I would say 19th for an average QB is not overpaid, but w/e.

For an average below average quarterback he HAS been overpaid. Now he is about where he needs to be. Although I'd argue for what he does, that he is being paid at all is a little crazy.



Leave it to jd to argue anything/everything.

Matt Cassel got what QB's in FA were getting for starting jobs. Leave it to CP to bitch about money that isn't handcuffing the team.

Same people bitching about Cassel's contract are the same people saying that they would have praised Pioli for trying, and failing, with Sanchez... Ya. ****ing. Right.

BTW. Sanchez is set to make 14M this year.

It doesn't really bother me because, like you said, him getting the money he has gotten has in no way hampered this team financially.

I just hope they end up paying Bowe and Carr. If they don't pay them, I'll have a problem.

:facepalm:

Counting excellerated bonuses, Cassel will make close to 20 million dollars in the next 2 years (if he is retained)

Thinking that's ok is full reerun.

13M = 20M now?

Not really. They were grossly over drafted. And in Dorsey's case, you can argue that he's been grossly mis-utilized.

Dorsey wasn't over drafted, imo. He was drafted when the Chiefs were a 4-3. Not his fault it only lasted for a year.

Yep.

It's been debated over and over, but I for one wish we put him at the nose and used him like Dallas uses Ratliff in the 3-4. Apparently we run a different 3-4 scheme than they do.

Dorsey has done well, just not the world beater he was thought to be coming out of LSU. Not all his fault.

I still think he should be traded if we can find someone willing for a 2nd. He's got 1 more year on his contract and I can't see how he's brought back as a 3-4 DE.

He's good at stuffing the run but hes more than a liability on the field against the pass. He doesn't demand double teams and he's virtually non existent. Ship him to a 4-3 team to play inside.

That's only base salary.

His signing bonus spreads through the life of the contract evenly.

Try to keep up, JFC.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-ci...s/matt-cassel/

Try to keep up.

He didn't get a signing bonus.

Guys like Ratliff are used to penetrate into the backfield.

If everyone Glenn Dorsey loves were taken hostage and all he had to do to save them was beat his block and get a hand on the QB, they would all be dead by sundown.

The good news is, I feel pretty confident that the Chiefs will spend a lot this offseason.

I'm not a big Clark Hunt fan. But I also believe he knows and cares a lot about money. And he and everybody knows that he's not going to sell tickets or luxury boxes unless he makes a serious statement in free agency.

I've said before... the way Romeo and the front office have started to bring up Cassel, defending "the Tree"... I think they're becoming well aware of their reputation. I hope that's what that means.

Go read post 425, then take a trip to the store and buy a couple gallons of peak antifreeze and do shots till you go to sleep.

You mean this one?

P Player Base salary Cap (inc. bonuses)
...
QB Matt Cassel $5,250,000 $7,575,000

Matt Cassel got a ROSTER bonus and an OPTION bonus.

You idiot.

He counts against the cap for 7.575 million this year and next year he counts for 10 million against the cap.

Those 2 years his salaries count against the cap for 17.575 million dollars.

That's "close to 20 million" which is where this started by you saying 13=20?

The fact that you seem fine with that tells everyone all they need to know.

This place really needs

Skip
Dane
Hamas
OTWP

Its all a matter of whose info you trust with different numbers out there.

Not really. It's a matter of how much he will get paid as opposed to how much he will count against the teams salary cap.

Those are two totally different things.

All this talk about Carr Bowe, Soliai etc.


If we just signed those three to market value, what would the likely hit be?

we'd still have more space than this FO would know what to do with

aka

we wont be signing all 3.

I still think the Chiefs will be way under the cap this season as well. And all this no spending is to reflect next season when you have to be really close to the cap. They will just splash then.