Tamba is not on the decline.

He was used in pass coverage 70% of the time last year.

He is a pass rusher. Sutton will do a good job with him.

Still turns 30 in November. He still has 110 games of mileage on him.

Sure, he's going to have more talent around him, but do you really expect him to return to the 15 sack guy he was at 27?

I'd be surprised to see him get back to the 12 sack guy he was at 28.

Time's a bitch and it's not on Hali's side. I don't think he's shot, but I don't think you can argue with a straight face that he isn't either A) in decline or B) due to start said decline in fairly short order.

Smart teams have young, ascending players on their roster backing up older players.

Having a Dion Jordan (despite his brilliance outside of football) would be nice not only as a rotational player, but as insurance if either Hali or Houston were injured.

If either were to be injured, it would seriously affect QB pressure and pass rush.

id rather him take an unneeded sack, than an unneeded turnover which the chiefs saw far too often last year.

But yes, he even admits he takes too many sacks. Hopefully that changes.

What about 2012?

The one where he averaged 2.4 sacks a game......only down .35 sacks per game from the year before?

Given that scenario, id rather have Ansah. More upside i believe than any other pass rusher in this draft. Also profiles greatly to a 3-4 olb.

Tamba didnt have a lot of sacks lsst year because he was in coverage 70% of the time. He is a pass rusher not a pass coverer. He could easily put up 15 sacks this year if used properly.

no, 2012, he flat held the ball too long, which ultimately led to his demise. Holding the ball and not getting rid of it, was for sure a big issue. Just dont want this scape goat out there about the oline in 2011.

2012.....best o line in football bar none......

apparently some of you dont realize that Tamba Hali is probably one of TWO defenders on the entire team that the other teams offense actually game plan for as a factor during the week. He's that good. He's getting old, but he's good, let's say he's similar to dwight freeney/robert mathis, he's still got well til hes 33/34

hes going to have a huge year.

Yes i would, especially in a trade down scenario. Or even Jarvis Jones depending on how far we trade back.

I think bringing in a 3rd pass rusher on obvious passing downs would be tremendous.

Thank God a person who ****ing gets it.

Know why he doesn't turn the ball over? Because he takes ****ing sacks.

Game Manager. 8-8.

you dont really game plan for a MLBer, you dont really game plan for a safety. So that leaves Flowers and Hali, Houston gets open looks because of all the focus Hali brings

we dont have a d-lineman worth a shit that takes the focus off of any of them, so that's where we struggle

8-8 is still better than 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 4-12 and 2-14.

I'm not sure he's in decline or not, but his production certainly dropped off last season and im not as certain as you are that it's his supporting cast's fault. He's getting older, he was never an outstanding athlete to begin with, so it's not far fetched to believe that his best days are behind him.

If the Chiefs are in a position for a luxury pick, and it's not going to be a QB, then OLB seems to be the sexiest pick out there.

Does 8-8 win you a Superbowl? No, it doesn't.

For what?

Yeah, i'm pretty sure you made that "70%" up.

You want realistic expectations for Alex Smith?

His 2nd year here.....he better have us in the AFC Championship game.

How much, if any, do the responsibilities change for OLB's if we are changing to a 1-gap 3-4 defense? Could that weigh in ont he decision for the top pick?

No, it doesn't. But it also trends in the right direction.

How many times in Chiefs history have they actually been 8-8 for a season?

Trends in the right direction? Like that 10-6 season in 2010?

Is this a serious question?

8-8 doesn't get you any closer to the Super Bowl than 2-14, 4-12,7-9,4-12 if your not going to draft and develop a QB to take the leap into the post season and beyond.

Without the benefit of the last place schedule he will get this year? I doubt it will happen.

From a business owners perspective it makes sense. minimum 8-10 wins keeps butts in seats and fan interest up.


Not saying i agree with it, but i can see the business owners side. Clark wants the bleeding to stop RIGHT NOW. Not next year, or the year after.

How many playoff games have they won since '93?

Tamba Hali IS an outstanding athlete are you nuts. Find a guy as big as him with that kind of stamina that goes until the whistle. He has blood and sweat coming off him in the 4th quarter in blowout games and hes still making a team's LT earn their pay check that week.

There was a gaping hole at LBer behind him, literally, he was playing next to a bum at DE when our starter got hurt, he had an awful safety that cant come up in the box and play the run or do ANYTHING. And Stanford Routt, Jalil Brown, Javier Arenas to his right... need I say more

there's a reason they signed guys like Dunta Robinson and Mike Devito. Run support, guys that will come up in the box and bang next to Tamba. I may not like the signings but Tamba will still come to work against every teams highest paid offensive lineman, their LT, protecting their most important position in the game, their QB. And that offense has to game plan specifically for him and that.... every week.

Then Alex Smith is ****ing worthless.

It's quite clear that the 10-6 season was not a trend or otherwise, they'd have been able to follow it up with a 10-6 record or better.

If the Chiefs go from 2-14 to 8-8, that's improvement. That's progress. That's moving in the right direction.

Now, if they fall back to 2-14 or 4-12 or 6-10, they have a serious problem, whether it's QB or pass rusher, etc. But that hasn't happened yet, has it?

Yes,. What does it gain?

Answer: not a damn thing

8-8 makes TrueFans happy.

:facepalm:

This team has not put together consecutive winning seasons since 2005-2006, when the team was on a step decline.

If they don't improve to 8-8 or better in 2013 and stay around the 2-4 win mark, they have far more serious issues than Alex Smith. And if Alex Smith is solely responsible for a 2 or 3 or 4 game season, he'll be gone.

And if Alex Smith is gone after this year then someone's head should roll because it was a ****ing HORRIBLE move.

Gee, I don't know. How many?

:spock:

If you have a point, make it. Pretending to be Donger won't win you any favors.

Clark's Wallet.

Right. Going from 2-14 to 8-8 means absolutely nothing. The team didn't improve, fans weren't more optimistic, guys didn't gain experience from winning - no, none of that.

You define outstanding athlete different than I. You described what i would call a high motor guy. Tamba has always been a hard worker, high motor guy who developed as a technician.

Outstanding natural athlete? Not IMO. That would be reserved for guys like Aldon Smith or JPP

It doesn't require trading multiple 2nds for alex smith for a team to go 8-8.

And what if we go 8-8 in 2014?

Really? Prove it. Prove how going 8-8 makes "True Fans" happy.

What the **** IS a "True Fan", anyway?

0. Thats the point. How is that "better" than we already had?

I would say it depends on why the Chiefs went 8-8, don't you?

Do you recall the Vermeil years? 6-10, 8-8, 13-3, 7-9, 10-6, right? Well, the Chiefs were trending upwards, then down, then slightly up again. They had a very narrow window in which to win and they couldn't get it done. Why? Because they lacked the necessary components on defense.

Personally, I believe this team is fairly balanced offensively and defensively, especially after the recent offseason moves. The draft is still seven weeks away and it's likely they'll add more talent to the offense and defense.

I'd prefer to watch the team in 2013, with what, at least six new starters and possibly as many as 10, before worrying about going 8-8 in 2014.

For the same arguements that were already made in the thread. They will win a few bragging rights games, maybe beat the Raiders at home for once, leave the home games happy a few times and hope some day we trade for an aging Bretty Favre/Joe Montana to put us over the hump. Then they can say at least we ain't (insert whatever team sucks in the division) while the Broncos are playing meaningful games year in and year out.

A true fan will always point to the exception to the rule to justify their football opinion or justify a move by saying well he is better then "x" player like a 300lb fat ass saying at least I'm not a 400lb fat ass.

I think I would go Ziggy over Jordan. It's a calculated risk because you are betting on pure potential but, man, if he pulls it together with his raw talent and drive, you would really have something special. Jordan may be "safer" but his ceiling is a lot lower.

Well, the Chiefs aren't the Broncos, are they? The Chiefs didn't win two Super Bowls in the 90's and the Chiefs couldn't even get Peyton Manning to talk to them.

So, I think it's wise that Reid and Dorsey but their best efforts forward into making the Chiefs franchise respectable. Respectable. That's a start, right?

How about making the Chiefs a respectable team - no longer a punch line or a laughing stock. If that can happen, then maybe at some point, the Chiefs won't be denied meetings with superstar players and maybe at some point, the Chiefs will put a consistent team on the field, one that makes fans of other franchises jealous.

Contrary to popular belief, that can't happen one week after the League Year begins.

And with all of that said, I don't think there's a single fan of the Chiefs that aspires to 8-8. I really don't.

Tyson Jackson-Dontari Poe-Mike Devito

that's a combined FOUR sacks total between them last season

disgusting

Would you like Sherif Floyd?
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The team was made respectable without the addition of an injury prone backup as qb.

i would like any d-lineman they want to take for that matter

ideally a 43 DE/OLBer they can ask to put on weight and platoon with Mike Devito in pass rush situations

think DeVito/Quiton Coples last year for the Jets. That scenario would be good for us I think

wish we still would have had Wallace Gilberry right about now, sadly.

Technically, as Seattle has already proven, 7-9 can win a shit division and once in the playoffs...

Someone that thinks trading a 2.1 and a 2.x for Alex Cassel 2.0 just to go 8-8 to sell tickets and be 'happy'?

AMIRITE?

I think San Diego won it with an 8-8 season a few years back as well.

FWIW, Seattle won their playoff game against the Saints.

As far as I can tell, it's someone who doesn't agree that we'll never win another game unless we draft Geno Smith.

Youre one of those kids who got a lot of 4th place trophies so you didn't cry alot, because your dad didnt kick your ass enough?

LMAO

Are you drinking during the day again?

I wish!

I haven't had hardly anything since my son was born

:evil:

I think the biggest fear from that is "respectable" turns into "medicroity". We've been down that road before finding band aid after band aid at the QB position. Most intelligent fans have seen the winning formula and know the winning formula so when the current regime appears to try something different from that forumula it's frustrating. They better be damn sure Geno doesn't have the potential to be a top 10 QB in this league if they are going to chose a 29 year old QB with a limited ceiling and that needs a superior supporting cast to be successful.

You're just all happy because we signed Chase. :D

I was too when we signed Brady Quinn. Your time will come.

People already wanting to lose so we can draft a QB with that top 5 pick. Unreal! We just had the 5th, 3rd, 5th, 11th and now the 1st pick in the draft and we haven't drafted a QB. But yeah we should worry about winning to many games so we won't play ourselves out of position to draft a QB. And they're dead serious. :LOL:

I think it's BS anyway that you have a top pick to draft a franchise QB. 1st round sure but not the #1 or #2 pick. Flacco, Rogers, Big Ben nor Brees were drafted that high.

But let's at least get through this regime's first draft before we kill them for their direction. If they get back a 2nd round pick and take EJ Manuel, or they take a Tyler Bray in the 3rd (needs time, but big upside), maybe they get it after all.

The last few years have torn us down to the point where guys like Dane are dreaming of 8-8.

We could have gotten to 8-8 with Matt Moore...re-signing Orton last year...letting Reid try to duplicate 2010 with Matt Cassel.

Trading what equates to a mid first rounder for a 29 year old quarterback should get us a really good starter. A guy we can have legit hope of winning big games with.

Not a guy that averaged 207 offensive yards (rushing + passing) last year and was replaced by a guy that averaged 320 (rushing + passing) yards per game.

Matt Cassells deal: 2 years for about 4 mil a year.

how much money does Cassel get from us this year lol

The Geno Butt hurt is strong.

Right now that looks like a long shot, but we'll see.

They over paid.

Why would they take anyone in the 2nd or 3rd after shelling out that cash for Chase Daniel?

They wont maybe in the 5th round.

When have the Chiefs ever been consistently mediocre? Mediocre is 8-8, right? When have the Chiefs put up consecutive 8-8 seasons?

I agree. I've advocated for a first round QB since the days on the KC Star Forum. I wanted Brees, I wanted them to choose someone before Green's inevitable fall, I wanted Sanchez or Clausen or anyone that wouldn't be Matt Cassel.

I agree, there is some amount of risk involved by trading for Alex Smith. But knowing that the fans that purchase the tickets and jerseys and pay for parking, etc. are fed up with the pure shit that Pioli (and Herm before him) have been trotting on the field for the better part of six seasons, they've chosen to put a respectable team on the field in 2013.

Personally, I don't believe that means the Chiefs will continue to pass on first round or second QB's, at all. I just think it means that they don't want to further test fan's patience by telling them "Hey, we're going with a rookie QB this year. Hang on for the ride. Thanks for another 2-3 years of your patience".

I just don't think that was going to fly. And I truly believe that the Hunt Family were tired of the perception of their franchise in league circles.

*insert spit take here*

He's going to set franchise records? LMAO

Because all of those guys have,

We dont owe Cassell anything. All of his guaranteed money has been paid for.

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo

Catching up: CB Sean Smith's deal with KC included $12m in guarantees, not $11m. So there.

His signing bonus is still costing us dead money.

Apparently, he's really on a one year deal. They can cut him after this season without any cap implications.

ROFL Monopoly money. Vikes have had the Worst offseason of any team- Stoopid Vikes.

actually we pay him 3.9 million this season to piss off

The point remains, he's here now. Why spend a 2nd or 3rd on another QB?