He was sacked 44 times in 2011.

Ain't that some shit?

Well, facts are facts.

Both those male quarterbacks enjoy dinking and dunking!

In fact, one enjoys it even more!

He was on pace for 41 last season.

However, Keapernick was on pace for 35. Still shitty.

he was dead last in first downs allowed?!?! OMG

hopefully he wasn't dead last in times he brought down a runner with ankle tackles...

or dead last in smiling on the field

if he's all three of those things I think Dorsey should be fired immediately...

Actually you should. "Alex Smith vs Matt Cassel" sounds like "the people vs"-thread for this season. Sublime it would be.
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Tom Brady likes to dink and dunk, too. He throws a lot of short passes.

In 2011 Alex Smith's sack rate per dropback was 8.5%

Compared to:

Tebow 9.5
Cassel 7.1
Sanchez 6.6
Rodgers 6.1
Schaub 5.1
Brady 4.8
Palmer 4.8
Rivers 4.8
Eli 4.4
Brees 3.4

Under 5 seems to be a good benchmark. 8.5 in a dink and dunk offense :doh!:

Then he was on pace for far fewer in 2012. Seems his arrow is still pointing up. I'm going to keep my expectations in check but Smith is better than Cassel.

No one gives a **** about Colin Kaepernick.

We give a **** about Alex Smith, and he LOVES to take sacks, as if each one extended a drive.

Actually, no.

Yeah but he's, you know, a hall of famer.

You're getting increasingly obtuse as the offseason wears on.

I think a good way to describe Alex Smith is average.

HOWEVER

When Clay spews all his garbage around about PFF and how GOSPEL PFF is...I just want to know how Alex Smith is SO ****ING BAD when THE BIBLE OF JUDGING A PLAYER ON STATISTICS that is PFF.COM had him as the #8 QB in '11 and on pace to be the #11 QB in '12?

APPARENTLY THE SACKS HE TAKES DON'T REALLY AFFECT THAT PFF RATING.

So I suppose it can't really hurt his team all that much.

9.4% sack rate per dropback in 2012. Arrow pointing down.

It's pretty bad.

Basically if you need a first down you throw at Sean Smith.

But don't worry, Bob Sutton is the new Gunther....he will fix everything.

No.

You use PFF to prove your point when it backs you up...but then ignore it when it doesn't.

You are a hypocrite and you lack general football knowledge. You don't know what you're watching. It probably stems from the fact that you weren't athletic.

The Alex Smith/Matt Cassel comparison is total garbage. They do not have any similarities. Their only similarity is they were both traded to the Chiefs for the #34 overall pick.

That's where it ends.

Now if you want to debate that Alex Smith is average with an upside that stops at efficient game manager, then I'd have nothing to debate...because I'd agree.

But the people saying he's Matt Cassel? You're all ****ing idiots.

I'll wait to see what Alex does as a Chief before hating on him.

hey I have no doubt the 49ers had an elite team around him

but it's hard to go 19-5 in 24 games as a starter

in short, he's not as bad as this board is trying to sell him as

he's a game manager...

does that excite me? No.

BUT HE'S NOT MATT CASSEL

that's just ****ing ludicrous

Factually, they do.

Sorry.

because if you compare their career stats they match up?

lololololololol

you can always twist the stats to have them read however you want

watch a ****ing game every once in a while guy

Alex Smith:

Very accurate on short throws
Sack machine
Bad on 3rd down
Has never generated a lot of production in terms of yards per game or TDs
Avoids interceptions
Performed best when sheltered

Andy Reid:

Offense runs through the QB position
Depends on lots of production from the QB position
His WCO has a downfield flavor

I don't see this as a good match at all.

Statically, John Elway was an average QB.

Do you think he was an average QB?

This isn't about stats.

It's about play style.

Which means watching games and seeing that they both do the same shit for awhile now.

Come on Hootie. There's no way you win this argument. They're both dink and dunk mother****ers, and there's no way around it.

Tom Brady has been a dink and dunk mother ****er for 3 years now.

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 51 times last season.

Sack machine...

Peyton Manning is a dink and dunk mother ****er now.

So they were throwing the ball alot less? He had 20 sacks in 9 starts.

You are a poor debater, Hootie.

This is what I'm saying.

Rodgers takes a SHIT TON of sacks.

NOW...it's because he's always looking downfield and looking to extend plays...

which isn't really what Alex Smith does.

but yeah, this is Rodgers' biggest flaw. Sometimes he just needs to take what the defense gives him rather than making hero plays.

Once he fixes this one minor glitch he has the potential to be the best ever.

Dave, you'd think after last offseason, in which I completely ****ing destroyed you in every argument, you'd learn, but you just don't.

Jesus, man.

he started 9 games I believe...with his 9th game playing a quarter against the Rams before getting concussed.

where have I been a poor debater?

this debate was over after PFF had Alex Smith at #8 in 2011.

Not because I think that site is really worth a shit, but because you do. You parade that site around like it is the say all and be all.

So if that's the case, we have a QB that has shown he can be a top 8 NFL QB.

WHAT A STEAL!

You brought up a hall of famer trying to defend Alex Smith.

Twice.

You are hopelessly obtuse.

he compares Alex Smith's 2011 to Cassel's 2011

yet Cassel got an overall NEGATIVE PFF ranking and Alex Smith was the 8th best QB in the NFL.

so once and for all CLAYTHAN

are we using PFF as fact or fiction? Because you can't use it as both.

he dinks and dunks it to Aaron Hernandez, Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead in their hurry up offense every single game.

Dink and dunk isn't terrible football if you're making the right reads...

especially when you have a guy like Jamaal Charles

now, again...I'm not excited for Alex Smith. He's average. We could win 10 games next year. What does that do for me? Yay! A 1st round loss to Houston or Indy or Cincy. Sounds fun.

It's fact.

And Cassel's best games (lol) in 2010 were given good ratings.

That's what Alex Smith is capable of. Matt Cassel's ceiling...is Alex Smith's ceiling.

Is that clear enough for you?

Clay's system of using PFF to support his biased views only is obviously the perfect system. We should just leave at that.

Do you seriously think Brady and Smith are comparable?

If you choke down on the short stuff on Brady he will eat you alive on the intermediate passes. When defenses play Brady, they give him the underneath stuff as the lesser of evils. When defensing Smith, teams can cheat up because he isn't a threat to destroy their team downfield.

Smith isn't horrible, but he's a bad match for Reid and isn't a franchise QB.

We won't win 10 games this year.

Just as we weren't winning 10 a year ago.

Yeah I already corrected it. It makes a small difference. So he was on pace for about 35/36 sacks.

There's nothing biased about my views on Alex Smith.

There's no reason for me to dislike him other than the fact that he is of questionable ability.

:D

This has nothing to do with that.

I see NOTHING about Smith that reminds me of Cassel.

Alex's mechanics are far superior.

Like I said, I'll wait to see what happens before I shit all over Smith. Plug your vagina, the Chiefs offense will be pretty good this year.
They aren't winning any SBs, but at least it will be entertaining.

LOL

so any QB that plays the game of his life, like Cassel did against Seattle, that's his ceiling? And that's what you use to compare everyone to?

Shit, in that case. Cassel has a Matt Ryan ceiling.

Shit, Matt Cassel played like TOM BRADY against Seattle in 2010!

NICE ALEX SMITH HAS A TOM BRADY CEILING! ALEX SMITH WAS 18 FOR 19 FOR 4 TD'S THIS YEAR AGAINST A POTENT CARDINALS PASSING DEFENSE!!!

OMG!!!

THAT'S THE BEST GAME EVER!

ALEX SMITH HAS A JOE MONTANA CEILING! HE DID IT THIS YEAR! IN 2012! HE PLAYED JOE MONTANA GOOD!

ALEX SMITH = JOE MONTANA

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

But the results are the same.

Dink.

Dunk.

Sack.

lololololololol

yeah I think Alex Smith = Tom Brady

how many times do I have to say it?

I THINK ALEX SMITH IS AVERAGE.

I also know he's better than Matt Cassel and compares to him in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

It's a terrible, awful comparison.

Sack machine + TD machine + yardage machine >>>> Sack machine

Shitty coaching staff is gone.

They'll be better.

11-5.

Bank on it.

:)

You're spiraling off course now.

I'll bump this thread and completely destroy you in a few months.

The real reason you're doing this is because the facts are undeniable...and it's pissing you and everyone else off that I am so, so right again about this team and our quarterback.

Deal with it boys. I don't have a crystal ball, just a brain. Try turning yours on.

THIS IS AWESOME!

ALEX SMITH PLAYED 1 GAME JOE MONTANA GOOD!

THE 49ERS GAVE US A 29 YEAR OLD WITH A JOE MONTANA CEILING FOR A 2ND ROUNDER AND A CONDITIONAL!?

HOLY **** THAT IS SOME GOOD RAPE

Why the hell do we have our fate tied to a mid-career average QB?

You think Smith has a Joe Montana ceiling????????????

how are you going to destroy me?

I said Alex Smith was an average QB.

I guess if he throws like a girl and turns the ball over 20 times in the first 5 games then I'll admit he's Matt Cassel, Jr.

but if he is as average as I think he'll be...I'm sure the Chiefs will be right around .500 in week 5, week 10, and week 17.

Doesn't excite me. I'm just not dumb enough to think Alex Smith and Matt Cassel are comparable QB's.

YES! HE'S 100% SERIOUS!

This

For the smart man that you are, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Clay said that Matt Cassel = Alex Smith because in 2010 his best game (Seattle) was comparable to any Alex Smith game in 2011.

I countered with Alex Smith in 2012 and his 18 for 19, 4 TD performance against an above average passing defense that beat Tom Brady in New England is something that would rival a Joe Montana game...

so therefore in Clay's world Alex Smith has a Joe Montana ceiling, you know, since his best game in 2012 was Joe Montana-esque.

I don't like Alex Smith, but the way you only bring up stats that effect him negatively is laughable.

I've watched them both play plenty because my wife is a 49er fan. He dinks and dunks but he can move the chains. Cassel dinks and dunks to 3 and out. Cassel is horrible. There are many backups that should start in the league over him. Smith is average.

I don't like the Smith move, but there is no question in my mind he's better than Cassel. You don't have to justify to me that we would be better off rolling the dice on Geno. The exaggeration isn't necessary. If you watch both play one is clearly better than the other.

wasn't my idea

all I'm saying is

I'm not stupid enough to say Alex Smith is Matt Cassel...

Okay, I see that he was Hottieing.

The question then becomes, why doesn't our QB have a Joe Montana ceiling? Geno certainly does (remember Joe was a 3rd round draft pick).

and pretty much THIS.

IMO, Smith is an average starting QB, whereas Cassel is an average Backup QB.

I never brought up the Seattle game. That was you.

But Cassel played several good games that year. Not elite performances but good games.

That's what we would get out of Alex for a whole year at his 2011 performance.

I posted, started scrolling up and hit that post. I didn't see the earlier one where you made it clearer that you were exaggerating.

No he can't.

Over the course of his career he has consistently been among the league's worst quarterbacks at converting third downs.

I'm just tired of Clay parading around every thread with his PFF rankings...but when they don't fit his argument he conveniently ignores them or in Alex Smith's case...dismisses them.

and then he says something ridiculous like the following:

Matt Cassel = Alex Smith because in 2010 his best game was equivalent to Alex Smith's best game.

In which case, I countered that OUTRAGEOUS argument by saying Alex Smith's 2012 game against the Arizona Cardinals @ Arizona against a great pass defense was Joe Montana-esque because he was:

18 for 19 and had 4 TD's and played a perfect game.

Which means Alex Smith = Joe Montana because he did it one time. (Actually twice he graded out perfectly in QBR against Buffalo in 2012 too)

That's not what I said.

You are hopelessly obtuse.

He took 24 sacks in less than 9 games iirc.
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So everyone agrees that acquiring Smith (an average QB that is going to give us long odds of winning a SB, let alone building a dynasty) is a shitty move unless accompanied by the acquisition of a high-potential young development project?

I just counted them and came up with 20. I could have counted wrong I suppose but I don't think I did.

It's kind of like Kyle Orton at the end of the 2011 season. He sucked in the redzone, but he was clearly more effective than Cassel. Even though dumb ****s like re-run said they were the same. Neither is a franchise QB and that's the problem. Let's not get carried away though.

I have to wonder if Alex Smith would take so many sacks if they weren't always in the lead?

Sometimes, when you're up a score...why force a ball rather than take a sack and just punt the ball away...especially when you have an elite defense?

There are just so many factors to statistics...

again, to me...Alex Smith lies somewhere between Trent Dilfer and Trent Green. He also lies somewhere between way ahead and way way ahead of Matt Cassel.

Anyway, not to derail this "Branden Albert thread," but this tweet scares me.

and that's the same thing with his lack of yards this past season...

why pass the ball all over the field when you're consistently winning? It made no sense.

we compare his passing stats to an Andrew Luck who's team was constantly fighting to win games which meant he was constantly throwing the ball and constantly racking up yards...

there are just so many freaking variables...

Alex Smith is what he is (not Matt Cassel)...but cherry picking stats to make him look like Matt Cassel just makes whoever is doing it look like a god damn moron.

Yeah we need the QBoTF in this years or next years draft. A 1st or 2nd rounder. Alex Smith alone isn't enough unless we win a SB with him. :)

Eight full games is half. I read 24 you read 20.
Ill go with your number just to make it easy.

That would be closer to 40 than 35 by my math
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I'm ok with Albert leaving for a 2nd round pick (hopefully a 2 and a 4).

That trade wouldn't bother me a bit.

I'd still be trading for a trade down on draft day...to me it's Geno (not happening), trade down, or total bust.

I just looked at the season total.
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I agree with that. Unless, he's one of those rare late bloomers which I seriously doubt. I do think they draft someone, and Stanzi will be gone. I also expect them to move away from Smith after next season if they aren't considerably better.

On fox sports.com
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We're not cherry picking.

We're talking about entire seasons.

When everything goes well you get 2010 Matt Cassel. To me that is Matt Cassel's ceiling. That's what I thought his ceiling was when we acquired him. Alex Smith's 2011 isn't that different from Matt Cassel's 2010. Smith might be a little more consistent, might have a little higher ceiling. But if you push him like Reid's offense will, I think he could crack. I don't think he will blossom in to a top 8 QB.