Most are willing to recognize the fact that he didn't earn the spot outright, I only reiterated what most, besides you, already knew.

Actually you're so ****ing smart, because you realized and gave voice to the fact that you didn't know shit... it easier to rap everyone elses takes amiright?

Stephanie is a pure example of this regime betting on themselves, if he cant hold down RT how will he ever buck for a better payday?

They also don't grasp the concept of being unable to draft a franchise QB with a top 5 pick when there aren't franchise QBs in the draft.

2009: "We have to draft a QB in the first round!"

Stafford was unavailable, because he went at 1.1. Here's what was left. Choose wisely.

Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Pat White
Stephen McGee
Rhett Bomar
Nate Davis
Mike Teel
Keith Null
Curtis Painter
Julian Edelman

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

Pure, real life CP sadomasochism... am I guilty, who cares? its funny.

LMAO At the list. 3/4 of the resident Planet genesouses (CP Spelling) were SCREAMING for Mark Sanchez that year. Funny thing is that probably half were SCREAMING for Geno Smith last year...

It's too bad we passed on Jimmy Clausen....

The Chiefs are QB geniuses for avoiding all those busts!

Aren't you the guy who started the "We should have drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Derrick Johnson" thread?

Pretty much inevitable as soon as he was drafted, much less after Albert walked.

60 million for Cassel was the smart choice!

And if we draft Mark Sanchez we are at the same place we are now as we did with Tyson Jackson.

It makes no difference. That's why people hate the Fisher pick. Not because they want him to fail, but because we will get about 5 years of average to good JAG play then he will go sign for 5/40 million to some random team and we start the process all over again, with nothing to show for it.

Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, Eric Fisher. These top in the trenches guys have been yielding the same results for the Chiefs the last ten years. They are NFL starters that can hold their position, but they aren't going to impact or win us any games, so what's the ****ing point?

When we pick there we don't get a JJ Watt or Orlando Pace at the position, we just get a typical NFL starter. woo hoo

And while we're wasting top 10 picks on these JAG's that can barely hold their ground we're passing on playmakers and franchise QB's taken 5 or 10 picks below...

Yes, absolutely. Not sure what you're getting at here, but I originally created that thread around his first NFL start. So it could have been a boom or bust thread.
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With a right-handed QB is you have a average (on his best day!!) RT, hide him by moving him to LT! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket... But whatever you do, don't ever admit that he might have been a busted #1 draft pick at a "non-skills" position.

All we can hope for is that he's spending HUGE sums of the #1 coin he got trying to beat the PED system so he can go full-on gorilla in the weight room for the few years before he's caught.

Dorsey was a good pick. Regardless of how he turned out for us.

RunKC brought up Geno. Nobody else.

The dumbest straw man in the history of Chiefsplanet.

Congratulations on being inducted into the Dipshit Hall of Fame, Dick Bull.

Dude, you were ALL IN on MATT CASSEL.

You wanna play the hindsight game?

Jeez dude, this take is surprising coming from you because most times you know your shit; however, this time you dont. Way too early to write off Fish. Tell you what, are you right or left handed? Well write with the other one and see how that works for you...I dont care if you practiced a year, when you switch back to your normal writing hand, it will be easier for you and you will write better. Anyone who dismisses the change of position from LT to RTdoes not know what they're talking about. Its nearly impossible to accomplish and be as good at both, much less doing so in one's rookie season against the best competition on the planet. Bruce Mathews, arguably the best O-Lineman in NFL history, said Fish has all the tools to be a great LT. He knows a little something about O-Lineman, including first hand experience about being a high draft bust. So when he talks about O-lineman and their talents, I'd believe him...

It's way to soon to say he was/is a bust, that's ridiculous.

No one here is saying they hope the guy fails, that's also ridiculous. Saying he collectively wasn't very good last year and voicing concerns over whether he will ever be this or that, isn't the same as wanting the guy to suck.

And lastly, just because said qb or player buster elsewhere, doesn't necessarily mean he shouldn't have been the pick here. Situations and circumstances are different everywhere

For the sake of this team, I hope you're right. Wait, left... Shit!

Anyway, I hope he's a stud over on the left side.

Great post.

Me too.

It will be interesting to see how all of the LT's taken will do.

I think Fisher's biggest problems were strength and inexperience on the right side.

I think Fisher and Johnson have a chance to be really, really good.

Fisher's upside is much higher than a guy like Joeckel, for example.

Because it's easy to walk around sticking your pinky out after the fact and say, "Chiefs should have drafted Marino instead of Blackledge."

We've had a QB problem in KC for decades. And like it or not, every time we pass on a Jimmy Clausen, we're passing out on a chance to end that problem. So it seems rather convenient that you should take a similar situation regarding a QB who dropped quite a distance in the draft and say, "Look, here's a QB we should have taken. We wouldn't be ****ing around with Croyle and Huard if that were the case."

I believe he started that thread before Aaron Rodgers ever became a starter. Think about that for a minute.

Yeah, I just found it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=188932

He started that thread in August of 2008.

Aaron Rodgers had played in 7 games at that point. If anything, it makes DeBerg look like ****ing Nostradamus...

To DeBerg's credit, CP wasn't as QB-crazy as it was from 2009 to the present. I think he earnestly started that thread to try and prove a point.

So don't worry, Deberg. Just find us the next QB already in the league who's ready to bust out, and then start that thread. Then you can mock Mark Sanchez, Jimmy Clausen, Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, and even Steele ****ing Jantz if you want. Do it as often as you wish, because you're a ****ing swami!

I really think that it COULD be Alex Smith.

I just wish they'd have a better sense of urgency when it comes to surrounding him with talent.

I think they're trying.

Avery/Bowe/Sanders would have been explosive.

It didn't work out, but they were clearly trying...

They're not trying hard enough on the line. The guy needs protection.

The draft is coming up...


**** me :banghead:

I really think we could be looking at our best WR core (on paper) if/when we draft ODB/Lee/Cooks.

That would be great if that happened

And when we pass on all those guys and take Zach Martin (who technically isn't even a guard)?

I'll call it now:

1) Reach on a TE
3) HB (huge WTF moment...)
4) Slot WR
5) G...some guy projected to go bottom 3rd/top 4th falls and our FO acts like they won the lottery.
6) 0 ****s given. I'll be pissed off and fall down drunk by then...

So when you say "reach on a TE" you're saying like Ebron, Amaro, and ASJ are all there and they take the kid out of Cincinatti?

ROFL

Being a Chiefs' fan rules.

On the one side, I've seen people pick apart geno for an int in a game where he led a comeback.

On the other side, can't tell you how many times Fisher would make a small mistake in the first quarter and people went apeshit. Completely ignoring an otherwise solid performance.

Both sides are guilty of it. I disagree that there aren't people who want him to fail, just to further state their case against him as a 1.1 and I'm guessing we are going to hear more talk about him being a lousy backup unless he is anything short of a pro bowler.

That's literally the worst argument in the history of Chiefsplanet. Outside of a couple of obvious trolls, NOBODY wants the Chiefs, or any player on the Chiefs, to fail just so they can be right.

He was the 1st overall pick. Expecting him to be a pro bowler isn't unrealistic at all. Hell, expecting him to be one of the best 5 or 6 left tackles in football is completely justified.

I'm saying there will be better talent there and instead we'll take a lesser player...

No it isn't. If the draft was chock full of a ton of talent at QB and other "skill positions" and a team still picks a Tackle 1.1, then you can reasonably expect that guy to be some kind of aberration at the tackle position and come out on day one being among the best in the league. The only reason he went 1.1 is because the draft class was so poor. He went #1 overall pick, not because he is better than all the other tackles out there that have been drafted lower than him in years past, he went #1 because his draft class was week at the skill positions.

Excuses.

That's a shitty way to draft players.

If the draft class was so poor, and whoever you take at 1.1 is going tonged all this leeway and such, why would you not take te player with the highest potential upside and highest ability to change games.

Maybe some think different, but unless e becomes a top 5 player at his position, that's not a LT.

If your front office tells you"he was the best player available" and takes him first overall, he damn sure better perform at the very least adequately from day 1.

People would be a lot more comfortable moving the guy to lt if that were the case. When it turns out that the guy was physically overwhelmed at this level an was eventually benched, this is what you get

All I'm saying is that if Fischer came out in this years draft instead of last, what round would he fall to? 2nd? 3rd? I don't have any idea... I just know that had he come out this year, he wouldn't have near the expectation on his shoulders that he has now. So the expectation really has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the year that he was drafted.

So Dorsey just sucks at talent evaluation then. Got it.

I expect to see a significantly improved player this year. It was very clear that Fisher had most of the technique down, but was simply not strong.
Playing RT definitely hurt him too. The guy played on the left side in college, so putting him at RT was basically like changing everything on the fly.

Tough spot for all of the LT's. That's why none of them were that good last year.

And for the record, I don't really care about Fischer. I'm not setting myself up to be his defender. Feel free to bash him all you want as the biggest #1 draft bust in history if that's what you want. I'm fine with that. I just think had Manziell been in last years draft class then probably no one on here even knows who Fischer is.

So all this "hope for next year" bullshit is just that...

Dorsey doesn't have a ****ing clue.

I hope you realize you've caught yourself in a catch 22 here.

:facepalm:

I don't care If it's the worst draft ever, if a guy taken at 1.1 would go in the 2 or 3 round a year later, it was a god awful pick

Why does that mean Dorsey sucks at talent evaluation? (maybe he does... I don't really know, but I don't think this one draft pick after one year can be an indication of anything at this point). The offensive line is one of the hardest positions to play well in football. Making the jump from college to the pros is difficult to do at the tackle position. Fischer may still be a great right tackle. Just because he didn't come out as strong as you wanted him to, doesn't mean he won't.

But if that guy taken at 1.1 in 2013, that would have gone in 2nd or 3rd round in 2014, was the best available player in 2013, is that still a god awful pick?

"Fischer?" We're not talking about chess grandmasters, are we?

How have I caught myself in a catch 22?

Take the next step. Come on. You can do it.

What's a more likely explanation?

Had we taken fisher at 23, I'd agree.

But he was touted as the best player in the entire draft.

He wasn't though...

Yes... aren't we?

Isn't there a thread hanging around here from NFLN or some-such with a 2013 Re-Draft; and our boy Fisher was at 31 or 32?

Was he the best player available? Evidence isn't proving that very well

Ok... I don't know that he was or wasn't. I don't follow college football much. I do know however that it wasn't a surprise to anyone that he was drafted there and Lineman were the hot commodity in last years draft. So a good many people who do follow college football thought that he was one of the best players available - wasn't Dorsey alone.

Well... Chiefs FO doesn't have the benefit of hindsight at the time of the draft.

We now have evidence of him playing at the nfl level, against nfl level competition.

Good god.

Then they're shitty at their evaluation or the obviously messed up somewhere.

Then 80% (that's a guess) of NFL "talent evaluators" are shitty at their jobs because that pick didn't surprise anyone. It was going to be Fisher or Joekel (sp).

And look who took Joeckel.

NFL front offices are notoriously conservative, that's why the pick didn't surprise anyone.

Just once, it would be nice to see the Chiefs do something BOLD instead of something safe...

You've spent several days defending Dorsey and his approach.

If the rationale behind selecting Fisher is as you've described it, Dorsey isn't what you've been trying to say he is.

You can't have both, the two are mutually exclusive.

I dont like the pick. But he was clearly the best left tackle prospect in the draft. There are plenty of reasons why his play last year isn't representative of his capabilities.

We should see how good any of us are at making the number 1 pick. (I will be the first to say that I will completely suck at it as I don't watch a lot of College FB.) But I'll give it a shot. We should all pick who our 1.1 would be in this upcoming draft. At the end of the year, anyone who's number 1 selection isn't a pro-bowl player then they have to put the words "draft failure" on their avatar. Anyone who's pick does make it to the probowl would put up "draft god" over their avatar. Or some variation of those terms.

They had far more glaring needs than LT last year. Limiting the comparison to just LT is disingenuous. They could have literally had any player at any position. They took Fisher.

There has been an extremely small sample size of evidence thus far...

Most of us that have been here a long time already have several good and bad picks over the years. All of us have been right on some and wrong on others, just like most of the GMs in the league.

It's also disingenuous to assume you know about a situation when you have zero intimate knowledge of the situation.

The judgement of Fisher should begin this year. He'll have had a real offseason to get bigger and he will be playing at his natural position that he's learned for years.

You're missing the point.

Preaching to the wrong guy. I hate the pick. I wanted geno then and in hindsight wish it was Richardson . I am just saying if we took a left tackle, Fisher was the best option.

What else do we have to go on, or what's more predictive?

Him at central michigan or at the senior bowl, or him week in week out against the best players

I'm ok with the approach Dorsey and Reid are taking... yes. I think they did what they needed to do last year to put a competitive product on the field. And this year they are tyring to be smart in order to keep a competitive product on the field for the foreseeable future. I think it was widely believed that Fisher or Joeckel were the best available players and Dorsey picked one of them up to better strengthen his team. Because Fisher isn't all what we want him to be now, doesn't make my stance on Dorsey's direction for the team "mutually exclusive". So far, he's doing a pretty decent job.

So we took someone at first overall who wasn't physically ready to handle the nfl, and some people aren't upset with te pick?