Guys who play no defense whatsoever like DeRozan shouldn't be in MVP conversation with players like Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis. He's not even close to the level of player they are. Granted, Curry doesn't play much defense either and has won MVPs but he's a transcendent offensive talent.

No idea why anybody wouldn't enjoy watching this guy play. He does stuff like this and more all the time. Pure basketball genius.

I don't know if the 76er's would the worst team but Pre-Harden if Embiid was out they definitely wouldn't be a playoff team.

Don't get me wrong, the league being full of them wouldn't be any fun (it would essentially be womens college basketball).

But I love seeing a few guys in the league who get by on pure skill and guile. Because Jokic isn't some slug out there mauling guys - he's an incredibly skilled ballhandler, passer and finisher. to complement his ability to see all the angles.

His inbounds passes are must see TV.

He's no Steven Adams...

Lakers main problem is that Anthony Davis is Mr. Street Clothes. He plays to his potential the rest of the trash really dont matter.

I don't like skilled. I like relentless athletic talents. Skilled is boring. More Giannis, Morant, Lavine, Vince Carter. Less Georges Niang.

Agree with just about everything except your first sentence.

Also, George Niang=/Jokic

When will the 330 pound Zion play?

I'll send them Lebron for him...

I just want to see him kick JJ Reddicks ass.

He was day to day for opening night. Probably just needs a little more time.

Also it’s been almost three weeks since the trade deadline and still no timetable for Ben Simmons to return from not being injured?

Best player in the league? Bwahahahaha Embiid is levels above that fat chump!!..stop playing ROFL

As a sixers fan...I can tell you with confidence that that coward will wait until AFTER we play the Nets on March 10th to make his debut because he hasn't got the BALLS to come and face us at Fargo!!...he doesn't want those problems at all and tbh he's got sense because that building will be in a frenzy the next time he steps on our floor and he knows it. If he was too scared to play there as a sixer!!..he ain't gonna know what's hit him when he plays for the opposition.

As a KU fan, I wish that was objectively true. It isn’t. Not even all that close either and I have huge respect for the two-way game Embiid has.

Bro I wouldn't give a crap even if you was Joel's damn father!!..he's on a different planet to Jokic if you just watch them play instead of looking at all the stats In fine detail. Joel is basically a bigger Durant right now and Jokic ain't seeing that..he's just not. Jo's got better handles, better feet, better in isolation...WAY BETTER defender, get's to the line more etc..so you're right...IT'S NOT CLOSE :thumb:

I'm pretty sure not a single sentence of this paragraph is true other than the free throw rate.

Jokic has a .299 WS/48 (league leading), 9.2 OBPM (league leading), 4.7 DBPM (league leading), 13.9 BPM (league leading), 7.3 VORP (league leading), 15.0 RAPTOR (league leading), 16.7 WAR (league leading), 11.45 RPM (league leading).

Embiid has a .267 WS/48, 7.6 OBPM, 2.3 DBPM, 9.9 BPM, 4.7 VORP, 7.5 RAPTOR, 8.5 WAR, 9.76 RPM.

Lol yep the same old tedious stats get rolled out like Embiid isn't better than him in ppg this season right? o:-) if you want to just use stats then Harden was historic offensively from 2017 to 2020 but was he seen as a better player than KD or Lebron? Please think before you answer.

Joel Embiid is LeBron James and Kevin Durant in this analogy?

Be honest. You made up half of those stat acronyms

I'd give Giannis the MVP but the voters seem tired of him. I don't hear his name mentioned much. His numbers are similar to Embiid's and he's even more effective defensively because he can guard multiple positions.

Right.

If you're going to award it based on what a player is CAPABLE of doing, it's Giannis. If you're going to award it based on what a player IS doing, it's Jokic.

I don't see an argument for Embiid at this point. He's not quite as productive as Jokic or quite as versatile/capable as Giannis. No matter your metric, your answer isn't Embiid, IMO.

What's wrong with Giannis? He's putting up monster numbers again in points and rebounds. He's a MUCH better defender than Jokic. Jokic is averaging two more assists per game than Giannis and two more rebounds; however, he's scoring four less points than Giannis.

Their offensive numbers aren't enough in Nikola's favor to make up for the defensive superiority of Giannis.

Nothing at all - I think there's a fine argument to be made for Giannis as well.

My point is mostly as to Embiid - there's just not a lane for him, IMO.

If you want to lean into stats, you can say that Jokic's extra assists and boards more directly impact the scoreboard than Giannis and that with his range being better he has more impact on his team offensively by being able to space the floor more.

And then lean into the 'aggregate' stats to point out that yes, his offense DOES do enough more than Giannis's defense to be more valuable given that he has him edged in WAR and VORP.

But for Embiid, there's just not a path through those two that I can reasonably argue.

Embiid's path is that voters are tired of Giannis and Jokic won it last year. Embiid is also a presence defensively. The fact that Giannis can guard more players won't be a factor to most voters.

Embiid is the best player in the league right now...period. Jokic is simply a fat stat padder who's team has been irrelevant this year. i get the feeling most of the Embiid haters haven't actually watched him this season because what you lot are saying is pure BS IMO. There's a reason why he's the favourite..it's not by accident.

Giannis can't guard smaller guards with speed...our boy Tyrese Maxey has taken him to the cleaners in isolation in every game we've played the bucks.

Giannis can guard a lot more athletic players than Embiid.

Embiid needs to get his broke dick out of the second round before I'll talk about him being the best player in the league. He's not better than Giannis, Curry, Lebron, or Durant. He's also fat and constantly looks tired. If you're making fun of Jokic's physical condition, I'm not sure Embiid is the guy to contrast him with. I'll be shocked if Embiid can play many minutes over three or four playoff rounds. Dude always looks winded enough to be playing in Mile High Stadium.

The Nuggets are 1.5 games behind the 76ers in the standings. I know they play in a different Conference. It's just funny you saying they're irrelevant. Just because it's a smaller market and they didn't have a Ben Simmons fiasco?

:spock:

Philadelphia 76er's current record: 37-23
Denver Nuggets current record: 36-25

I mean, yeah, if we throw out the stats and just focus on how we feel about the player, Embiid might be in the conversation.

It's not just the voters, apparently. I live 4 hours from Milwaukee and can't seem to find a Bucks game on TV. TNT/TBS certainly doesn't seem to want them.

You guys need to remember who you are responding to...

If you'll look closely - I'm not...

That's weird. Maybe their court is too ugly to show on TV?

Most of those loses came when we had a covid outbreak. Our record when Embiid plays is brilliant actually.

Yes he is better than LeBron now and has a better all round game than Giannis which was evident when we beat the bucks on their floor recently..stop living in the past. Also Embiid has lost weight and is in great shape right now so that comment is an absolute fallacy.

This leads me to believe that the NBA version of win shares and WAR is a significantly flawed stat. Are these from the same clowns who created PFF?

I will say you can see Embiid just oozing with talent. You don't see that with Jokic, so it would be easier to become enamored with Embiid instead of Jokic. Nonetheless Jokic is not a great defender and I feel you could more exploitatively defend him or scheme against him better, if you have some elite defensive talent on your team. Embiid really is becoming more like KD everyday - although he's never truly going to get there. He's just a supremely talented guy, and really his only flaw is he needs to do better at shot selection.

76er's are 4-8 without Embiid this year.

Nuggets are 1-5 without Jokic this year.


Next . . . . . . . .

What leads you to believe that?

What? LMAO


You've never actually watched Jokic play the game of basketball have you?

My eyes.

Your "eyes" lead you to believe an advanced statistic is incorrect? That's seriously your claim?

You and Chieffy catching games together?

"We" won a game recently so we're better than the defending champions. That's not how it works.

Also, Giannis won two consecutive MVPs, followed by a Finals MVP. Embiid has won nothing. Giannis is not living in the past. He's still probably the game's best player.

Embiid is a better shooter without doubt, has better handles and is a better shot creator off the dribble and in isolation. Giannis is a dawg no doubt..but on the way to the finals who did he face that could defend him? Blake and Capella? Ayton was exposed in the finals too just like Embiid has always cooked him. He's too skinny to handle it down low.

Yes. Look at PFF. They are advanced analytics and complete shit. Some advanced stats work, some need work.

Lolol Knicks

A team with RJ Barrett, Quinten Grimes and Cam Reddish on it. What could go wrong?

Volume shooting extraordinaires. The funniest part is Grimes is actually the most efficient of all of them so far.

Lakers and Lebron have quit. Nice 3rd quarter showing by them against the Clip show tonight. LMAO

The Lakers don’t have to have “quit” to get blown out by the Clippers. They are one of the worst teams in the league right now without AD. No shooting around LeBron and no defense whatsoever.

All completely predictable too.

He is supposed to be da kang and make everyone around him better. FALSE! HE put the team together. FACT. He never passed KOBE and others....FACT. Can't wait until he is off my team so I can root for them again. RETIRE or go play with Bronny somewhere else. Da KANG can't even win a ****ing game. All he does is stat pad. He is a fraud and this is coming from a life long Laker fan. His fans and the media have disrespected the Bean who gave blood sweat and tears to the organization. Bron is not a real laker and never will be. We don't give a **** about a 4 month off, playing in front of no fans, no travel, bubble ass ring.


GTFOO LA!!!!

He is a front running fraud

Outside of the bubble, he hasn't done shit and certainly nothing without the Brow. Call him soft or injury prone but you see the results without him. Can't WAIT until he is traded this off season. Time to start over and LA will get more stars again in the future, we always do.

We have no assets or draft picks. Trade them all and start this shit over. Bron may not ever make my top 10 all time. Great player, but there are LEVELS to greatness that he is not at.

LEQUIT. Seen it all too many times.

I know I unloaded the clip but as Kobe said, he ain't built like me and Mike. Killers. Plus, he ain't built for LA. We had 16 before you got here and people have been trying to say you are better than Kobe, even when Kobe was winning SHAQLESS rings while waiting for you to get out of the east (Remember the puppets?)

Luka with the well deserved player of the month award. Leads the Mavs to another big win over the Warriors.

I hate Lebron but he's better than Kobe was.

He just joined the Lakers too late in his career. Still, they got one title out of him. They were never getting more with him aging and getting hurt and Anthony Davis always hurt. Plus, the West is much tougher than the East Lebron played in most of his career. That one title in the bubble is a success.

Kobe Jeter fans are so cute thinking Kobe is better than what he was.

Kobe won one championship where he was the best player on the team in 2009 (P. Gasol was clearly a better player than him in 2010 by any metric). And even that is debatable as Pau Gasol's advanced stats were on par or better than his on the 2009 Lakers. He's quite possibly the most overrated player in NBA history.

I was at that game. I can't believe how dead the crowd was. That's only the 2nd NBA game I've been to but the atmosphere was disappointing. i went to Utah 5 years or so back and it was electric there.

First of all, no he wasn't and never will be. Skill wise, heart, killer instinct etc. Kobe has him beat in spades. The west Kobe went through all those years was much tougher than it is even now. 4 months off, finished in an AAU setting, no travel, no crowds. The players didn't even want to finish the season at that point. Again, Bron played for the lakers, Kobe IS a THE LAKER!

went to 3 straight WITHOUT SHAQ and won back to back WITHOUT SHAQ. He damn near THREE PEATED AGAIN WITHOUT SHAQ. Let that shit sink in. With everybody against him AND after that Colorado bullshit. Bron is too mentally weak to bounce back from that kind of adversity.

I don't see Gasol on ANYBODY's all time 75-100 list

Life on the line, you pick between Kobe an LeBron to get the shot off and hit it or else you die. .........Sorry, I'm going with KOBE!

Literally nobody cares.

Gasol is 32nd all time in win shares and 30th in VORP in NBA history.

The team is tailspin diving worse than that helicopter that killed Kobe

Lebron is alive. Kobe isn’t.

W goes to Lebron.

Life on the line and you mention Kobe?

Looooooool

This is just pure trolling.

Kobe is a Top 10 player in NBA history. Period.

I still remember watching his 81 point game. It was a thing of beauty.

Cam Johnson just bitch-slapped the Knicks. Awesome game.

It can be both trolling and also true at the same time. Kobe is almost certainly the most overrated player of all time (see an example of this phenomenon in this very thread where he’s being compared to LeBron).

And the 81 point game was brought on by the absolute futility of the Raptors’ defense and the fact that the coach (Sam Mitchell) didn’t have a clue what he was doing. I would know, I watched that Raptors team play just about every game that year. They then used the #1 pick on Andrea Bargnani in the off-season.

I am not an irrational Kobe fan like others but to say he is over rated is silly. He was a 5x NBA Champ (5-1), 2x Finals MVP, League MVP, 12x All Defensive Team, 4th in career scoring and won the scoring title multiple times.

Is Kobe a Top 5 player of all Time? No but he is probably 10-15 and he is not better than Lebron or MJ.

cmon man lol

Great game by Cam. Missing CP3 and Booker is always tough, but the kid stepped up!

Somebody bitched that whatever sports list ranked Kobe like 10th all time. Said he was too low.

He ain't top 5 all time. And people who think that are overrating the **** out of him.

There are a few in this thread who think that. And thousands more NBA fans who think that.

Thus, he's overrated. Not to mention dead.

Hey I went to the Sam Mitchell basketball camp in 2002 at Western Iowa Tech. He did a great job of sitting on the bleachers while these other guys I didnt know made me do drills Ive done before. He taught me everything I know about basketball.

Right. That's a pretty impressive resume.

I meanHow is the guy overrated? Not like ppl are claiming he is GOAT but he's definitely at minimum top 10.

If you're being consistently compared to LeBron James or MJ when you are nowhere near LeBron James or MJ's level as a basketball player, isn't that the exact definition of being overrated?