I have a simple argument for the first point raised, that it wouldn't be fair given the state of the team when he got here.

He was hired knowing the circumstances. He was expected to take what we had, add some pieces to it, and succeed. It did not seem that, until we started losing, he claimed to want to go entirely youth, not just Vets in key spots with youth.

That isn't the point. The point is this is the NFL, you have to win now. If a coach cannot adapt their beliefs and styles to each team they go to, then they don't stand a chance. I am of the belief that the coach should come in and take what they have and make it work. Herm commented several times on the age of the team. He also realized it was a team built around the pass, not the bulldozing run game he wants to bore us to death with. He should have either immediately made this "his team" and started dumping old men for youth, or he should of picked up the phone and started making calls to get winners on the team to push it over the edge to victory. He did neither. He let the ship aimlessly wander the course until it shipwrecked itself in Indy, which wasn't "his" fault, that we can be sure of... oh god the futility. Do you remember the first ****ing half? Jesus, kill me!

The first year was a wash. He ran LJ into the ground, and did nothing to help this team. Had he tried to actually do something the first year and we were where we are now, last year, then I would have let him stay on for this season. But he does not get another season. He showed he is incapable of coaching at this level several times. I am not sure which is more sad, that Herm did not see the looming disaster, or that he did nothing to avoid it if he did see it.... all I know is we can do NO WORSE with a new coaching staff, what is there to lose? One or two more games? Herm might pull that off next year if he is allowed to stay.

Better to pull the trigger now than 4 games into the season next year when we are 0-4 and he is blaming Rocky Boiman, starting MLB, for the losses.

Prior to the great Carl Shit-Can of Aught-Eight, I think that in addition to trying to get a bunch of young guys who wouldn't question his judgment, Herm was also trying to set himself up for a long stay with the franchise.

Too bad, so sad; get gone.

Let it stop. Not another, its all DVs fault thread. Vermeil wanted to win. With the lack of talent being brought in by the draft we had to go into the FA market. Let's also not forget that DV's first draft we didn't have a pick until the third round. Too often CP was forced to concede that players we brought in by trades were going to have more value than a pick he would have wasted on Kenyaron Fox or Junior Siavii types. Has there been any head coaches who spent so much time in one job that have been helped out so little by the draft as DV? Herm has had three years on the job, and the talent level is nowhere close to being what it was when he took over. DV trusted perhaps too much in veterans. With the rookies we brought in I don't blame him. Its not like the trend hasn't continued with Herm at the helm. Is Donnie Edwards the same player now than when DV let him go? How did Napolean Harris turn out? Its not like we haven't brought in some dud FAs since Herm got here. Difference is we brought in more younger players who are a real reach to ever get to a level where they can be trusted to contribute on a weekly basis.

Here's something that Herm Edwards apparently hasn't learned. "The superior man blames himself. The inferior man blames others." - Don Shula

What a great quote. I'm stealing it.

For me, it's not a 'blame game' on Vermeil; the situation that Herm inherited just was what it was. Herm has had 3 years to write his own show, and he and Carl did not operate wisely. It's not like Herm was the first new coach faced with a challenging task.
That's it and nothing more.

Carl Peterson — Edwards’ close friend?

ROFL lol what?

I'll keep making this same point until people stop making that argument.The situation Herm was handed was definitely not like the one handed to Vermeil, and definitely not even close to any other situation any other team like Sparano or Mike Smith, etc... faced on their respective squads.

Again, the Chiefs prior to Herm Edwards getting hired were the oldest team in the NFL and had about a 15% success rate in the draft for the 5 years prior. I'm pretty sure they were the bottom of the heap in both dimensions, which makes the Chiefs very uniquely bad. Worse, while most new coaches are allowed to blow up a limping team, Peterson insisted that Herm "win now". Need evidence of that? Explain why a team that is rebuilding signs Donnie Edwards, Ty Law, and Damion McIntosh--third contract players.

Keep in mind that when Vermeil came into town, he inherited a fairly young team with a lot of cap space (the Chiefs "rebuilt" during the Gunther Cunningham head coaching era). Vermeil > Herm. And Herm's gameday decisions probably don't earn him the right to come back, but we need to quit acting like he's the main reason this team hasn't rebuilt in 3 years. The situation Carl Peterson gave Herm Edwards was far worse than any situation I've seen in a very long time.

Bowener, you're assuming Herm Edwards actually had the power to make personnel decisions. First of all, Peterson was Herm's boss, not the other way around. It was Peterson who signed off on any personnel/staffing decisions.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=Nfl&id=1326
And this backs the pretty well-accepted notion that Herm wanted to rebuild earlier, but Peterson did not. No personnel decision is made without Peterson signing off on it. The head coach is accountable for gameday mistakes because the buck stops with him. The GM is accountable for personnel mistakes because he is the one who has to sign off on any of those decisions.

Even if we take your point in to account, that still doesn't do anything for Herm's god-awful field generalship.

$9 million spent on Herm says he's had THREE FULL YEARS, you Homers are in DENIAL.

Of course Vermeil is going to go with vets with the draft picks he kept getting. That last team of Vermeil still had more talent than any team that Herm has fielded. They still haven't put in an adequate replacement for Roaf and Shields. He also blew up what was the most successful part of the team. Herm took this team from day 1 and built it into his image. Ask Mike Solari what happens when you don't settle for a FG instead of trying to get a TD. Ask yourself if you knew the draw play was coming again on all those 3rd and 8s, that is until the game was out of reach. Herm put this team in a system destined to fail. The supposed youth movement rebuild was smoke and mirrors. We didn't rebuild, we tore down. Most of the wannabe's that were brought in for this year were never going to be a long term or even short term answer. Bringing in a young guy just because he's a young guy is just wrong. You bring in the guys who can help the team win. Pat Thomas and Tavares Washington are never going to help this team win.

Excuse me?!? Dick sucked ass as a coach?!? Seriously? The subject of my post was evaluating Herm and DV as a COACH. Herm is awful...an abortion of a coach. At least DV got the most of the talent on the side of the ball he was known for. Herm has done S*** with the defense...again...because he is horrible as anything except as a secondary coach.

Righhhhht. Because caring about W/L is a BAD thing. You play to play "the right way"...the Herm way. Losses shouldn't matter as long as the game is played right. :banghead:

I have never apologized for gameday decisions. I think he's a lousy gameday coach. But people want to blame him for personnel problems too and those are largely the fault of Peterson.

None of this matters. If I accept your premise that Herm was dealt a different hand then DV (be it both circumstances, players, power, etc.), then I still don't see how you see Herm as anything put horrible. IF I accept your premise in its entirety, then Herm is instantly fleeced for being one of the worst decision-makers (off the field in this case...but consistent with his on the field decision making) in the history of contract negotiations. He already had a job in New York and did not NEED the KC job. It's Herm's own damn fault for accepting the conditions under your premise. That is HIS failure. Not Carl's...not Lamar's...just Herm.

Herm makes excuses...and you and others have joined in.