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htismaqe 02-26-2009 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 5529123)
Holy hell, good to see you post again!

I hope I don't regret it.

This place is more toxic now than when I left. I didn't think that was possible.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-26-2009 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529098)
And here you go again with your stupidity. I said it was a valid question. I never claimed that the responses on either side were right or wrong.

But being a complete idiot and jumping on innocuous statements made by others seems to be what you do best.

It's not a valid question if the question raised is completely erroneous.

He's represented by the same people (Dunn) who represent Carson Palmer, Matt Hasselbeck, and a slew of other NFL QBs.

htismaqe 02-26-2009 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse (Post 5529149)
If I personally picked Sanchez it would be out of desperation. Not because I thougt he was the best player. Is that the way to build a winner?

I'm in my mid 40's and have been a Chiefs fan for all of those senarios you guys speak of. But a knee jerk reaction is not the answer either. I've also seen how that works out.

I realize you think the guy will get it done in the long run. I don't. That's the difference.

You want to keep throwing up the history of the Chiefs in my face as a valid arguement of what not to do. However, you skate the same way of evaluating the player you want. If you look at history, Sanchez will bust.

Does that make it 100% absolute that it will happen? No. But there is no QB that has ever been taken that has succeeded under these circumstances.

Not drafting a player like that doesn't make you scared, it makes you dilligent.

At some point, though, you have to kick diligence to the curb and take a chance. If you don't, you do the "prudent" thing every year and you never end up adding the pieces you need to win it all. EVERY QB, every year, has question marks, even Manning had them. He couldn't win the big game, they said. You just can't keep putting it off forever.

I could understand the argument that Sanchez is TOO risky if there were players on the board that had better value, but there just isn't. This draft SUCKS at the top - absolutely sucks.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529111)
It took them 5 years to put it together. It's taken us SIXTEEN (if you want to count the Joe Montana AFC Championship game). Good lord man!

1.) You, and many others here, are unfair in your evaluations of the Chiefs in the past 20 years. 3 times in less than 15 years, the team has been 13-3. I'm not saying that the team's been the cat's ass, but it hasn't been as bad as some of the people here make it out to be. Good lord, imagine being a Lions' fan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529111)
And I said "exactly" because you know deep down that the Ryan Sims debacle HAS EVERY BIT the impact on Chiefs fans as Ryan Leaf, if not more so. Ryan Sims was considered to be the "safest" DT in that draft - Haynesworth had character issues, Wendell Bryant was a pothead, and John Henderson had back problems. Ryan Sims is EXACTLY the kind of player that people are clamoring for when they say they want Curry - SAFE. Well, guess what? Even the "safe" picks aren't safe.

The reason "exactly" made no sense is because you tried to apply a specific example to a general principle, and that principle wasn't even applicable. A bust at QB is the most damaging position to bust at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529111)
The Chiefs didn't draft Ryan Leaf. Furthmore, Ryan Leaf isn't eligible for this draft. What happened in 1998 has pretty much zero bearing on the present, unless you're willing to admit that Mecca and Hamas are right and you're just scared of a Ryan Leaf-like scenario.

You seem to be operating under a misconception. I'm not surprised by it, given the kind of posts that Hamas has made. I have no fear of taking a quarterback high. Last year I was pimping Matt Ryan as if I was his agent. I just wasn't on this board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529111)
Like a little. We got Pioli! We got a young coach that was just in the Super Bowl. This is the best Chiefs offseason EVER! There's no better time than now to take a flyer on a QB. If he busts, so be it. I've been a fan for thirty years - it's time to take some risks.

Every pick is a risk in some way or another and, especially at the top of the draft, every pick needs to be made based upon the individual player as opposed to the position or the 'safe' tag put on him. Isn't that the lesson of Ryan Sims? As for having Pioli, you and Hamas and company are going to have to get used to the notion of team specific "value" as opposed to position or BPA. If Pioli thinkgs a kicker has more value than any other player on his draft board, you'll be getting a kicker.

Mecca 02-26-2009 11:03 AM

Going 13-3 because your team was built to fail in the playoffs isn't my idea of a good year.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5529180)
It's not a valid question if the question raised is completely erroneous.

He's represented by the same people (Dunn) who represent Carson Palmer, Matt Hasselbeck, and a slew of other NFL QBs.

So his brother is a liar?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/allt...hez-agent.html

Quote:

UPDATE: Nick Sanchez confirmed the arrangement to LA Times reporter Gary Klein. He does have some experience in the sports world, as his firm represented the Angels in their fight with Anaheim over the Los Angeles name issue. David Dunn, an experienced agent who represents Carson Palmer, will be retained as an adviser.

ChiefsCountry 02-26-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529068)
Not at all. To use it as one example of many shows the point. Leaf is an easy example because he was recent, but I've given many examples from different teams. Furthermore, even San Diego's recovery took time and luck:

1-15
5-11
8-8
4-12
12-4
9-7

Even with the good fortune of getting Brees (IN ROUND 2), and then Rivers (+ picks), it took the Chargers 5 years to put it together.

I'm not sure why you're saying "exactly", but whatever works for you.

It took Dallas 4 years with Aikman. Chiefs are going to suck balls next year and more than likely be very average in 2010 anyways. I want to get the player that will be cornerstone for the next 10 to 15 years. A coverage linebacker isnt the answer.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 5529199)
It took Dallas 4 years with Aikman. Chiefs are going to suck balls next year and more than likely be very average in 2010 anyways. I want to get the player that will be cornerstone for the next 10 to 15 years. A coverage linebacker isnt the answer.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with having this opinion, although I don't agree with the characterization of Curry and you're wrong about the time it took Dallas. Aikman was drafted in 1989. Dallas became made the playoffs for the first of 6 straight times (and 8 of 9) by going 11-5 in 1991.

htismaqe 02-26-2009 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529187)
1.) You, and many others here, are unfair in your evaluations of the Chiefs in the past 20 years. 3 times in less than 15 years, the team has been 13-3. I'm not saying that the team's been the cat's ass, but it hasn't been as bad as some of the people here make it out to be. Good lord, imagine being a Lions' fan.

How many playoff games did those 13-3 teams win? Please, give us all a break. We're not being unfair to expect the Chiefs to win ONE playoff game in FIFTEEN years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529187)
The reason "exactly" made no sense is because you tried to apply a specific example to a general principle, and that principle wasn't even applicable. A bust at QB is the most damaging position to bust at.

What? Deflecting by being purposefully obtuse is really unbecoming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529187)
You seem to be operating under a misconception. I'm not surprised by it, given the kind of posts that Hamas has made. I have no fear of taking a quarterback high. Last year I was pimping Matt Ryan as if I was his agent. I just wasn't on this board.

I'm not operating under any misconception. I never said you ARE scared of taking a QB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529187)
Every pick is a risk in some way or another and, especially at the top of the draft, every pick needs to be made based upon the individual player as opposed to the position or the 'safe' tag put on him. Isn't that the lesson of Ryan Sims? As for having Pioli, you and Hamas and company are going to have to get used to the notion of team specific "value" as opposed to position or BPA. If Pioli thinkgs a kicker has more value than any other player on his draft board, you'll be getting a kicker.

By generally lumping me in with the people you don't agree with, you show that it's you that's operating under a misconception. Thanks for the lecture though.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-26-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529197)

It's almost like you don't even read the ****ing posts.

cdcox 02-26-2009 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529187)
If Pioli thinkgs a kicker has more value than any other player on his draft board, you'll be getting a kicker.

Well considering that Pioli released the best kicker in the history of the game when he was in his prime, it is obvious that Pioli doesn't value that position very highly.

Considering that until recently, Brady was one of the few highly paid players on that team, he does value the QB position very much.

Pioli pretty much values positions the same way the rest of the NFL does.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529225)
How many playoff games did those 13-3 teams win? Please, give us all a break. We're not being unfair to expect the Chiefs to win ONE playoff game in FIFTEEN years.

When ONLY wins in the playoffs will qualify as a successful season, sure you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529225)
What? Deflecting by being purposefully obtuse is really unbecoming.

It wasn't obtuse. A general notion about blown picks on quarterbacks vs. a specific instance of Ryan Sims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529225)
I'm not operating under any misconception. I never said you ARE scared of taking a QB.

Hmmmm....

Quote:

unless you're willing to admit that Mecca and Hamas are right and you're just scared of a Ryan Leaf-like scenario.
Right, it must have been just me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5529225)
By generally lumping me in with the people you don't agree with, you show that it's you that's operating under a misconception. Thanks for the lecture though.

It had nothing to do with lumping you in with people I don't agree with for any nefarious purpose. I already know that how Belichick and Pioli work a draft. I was simply pointing out that you, Hamas and company will have to learn it, albeit with only the Pioli half in KC.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5529229)
It's almost like you don't even read the ****ing posts.

Yes. You got the roles screwed up and I didn't read the posts. More brilliance on your part.

Just Passin' By 02-26-2009 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 5529243)
Well considering that Pioli released the best kicker in the history of the game when he was in his prime, it is obvious that Pioli doesn't value that position very highly.

Considering that until recently, Brady was one of the few highly paid players on that team, he does value the QB position very much.

Pioli pretty much values positions the same way the rest of the NFL does.

This is a perfect example of what I mean when I talk about people needing to learn how Pioli and Belichick do things. Vinatieri wasn't released. The Patriots, in fact, franchised him the year before he left for the Colts. However, I don't expect that Pioli will be drafting kickers in the first round. The 'value' formula just doesn't call for it. I merely used it as an example.

htismaqe 02-26-2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529261)
When ONLY wins in the playoffs will qualify as a successful season, sure you are.

When your team hasn't won a playoff game since you were hitting 4-footers in college, you tend to start to want that. It might be different if we had actually won a few of those games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529261)
It wasn't obtuse. A general notion about blown picks on quarterbacks vs. a specific instance of Ryan Sims.

A "general" notion about blown picks on quarterbacks, supported by the specific instance of Ryan Leaf EQUALS the general notion that no picks are "safe", supported by the specific instance of Ryan Sims. Come on man, don't be that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529261)
Right, it must have been just me.

It was just just you, unless you're willing to admit that you have a problem with reading and comprehension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5529261)
It had nothing to do with lumping you in with people I don't agree with for any nefarious purpose. I already know that how Belichick and Pioli work a draft. I was simply pointing out that you, Hamas and company will have to learn it, albeit with only the Pioli half in KC.

Again with the generalizations and again with the lecture. Give it a rest already. NOWHERE did I suggest that I WANT them to draft Sanchez. In fact, I never gave any definitive answer of who I want them to draft at all (other than that I don't want an OT).

I know too how BB and Pioli work a draft. That has absolutely no bearing on this discussion, so the "this is the way they do it, get used to it" argument rings very hollow.


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