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Mike Vrabel (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203290)

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5536377)

He's hit on one or more almost every year. Tell me you would have won without the contributions of those players.

Wow. With one hand you giveth, and with the other you taketh away. He's great with late round picks, yet stupid about giving them away.

The answer is that you're wrong. Brady is a once in a lifetime. Koppen in the 5th and CAssell in the 7th. David Givens and Tully Banta-Cain in the 7th worked out ok, but once they went elsewhere they were shwon to be not all that special after all. Other than that, nobody who has been much more than a warm body comes to mind. I could be missing one, but that's 5 picks out of (yes, I counted) 38 picks in rounds 5-7. So maybe a 12% chance of getting someone who isn't just fodder.

Quote:

Now we've given up another pick. We had 7 to start, presumably traded one of them for Vrabel, now we're using one to trade up to get a play we could have had if we just kept our pick.

err...what? You can trade from next year, or package some garbage late round picks to move up. What is with this unholy fascination with late round picks?

And your team is already TOO YOUNG. Do you not get that part? You need guys who understand how to win in the NFL to show some of these guys hwo to do it.

Quote:

Who's he gonna teach to play linebacker?

Derrick Johnson, who's probably not going to be re-signed?

Demorrio Williams, who's also likely to be told to walk once his deal is up?

He's a rental, and it's pretty likely with a roster this shallow that half of the players he's "mentoring" this year aren't going to be on the roster next year.

He's not just teaching linebackers. TG is worth more off the field than just to the other two TEs on your squad...

Quote:

He was great for you guys, he fit the system. Part of that system is being smart enough to know when to cut a guy loose because he's got nothing left to give. I think Belichick is ****ing brilliant for getting anything for a guy that isn't an every-down player, who wouldn't have been on the team in 2010.

I agree, for now. Ask me again in November if one of our OLBs goes downs. Depth in August isn't the same as depth in November/December.

FAX	02-27-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el borracho (Post 5536071)

I don't care what kind of a tutor/role model Vrabel may be, that is what coaches are for. I'm ****ing pissed that we traded for an old man. Even if it was a 7th round pick, it was too much. This trade sucks ass.

One of the few times (or only time, as I think about it) I must disagree with you, Mr. el borracho. Vrabel makes sense. Things have to change in the locker room and on the practice field as much as they need to change on the field of play.

I'm certain that Pioli knows that Vrabel is a dead linebacker walking. Therefore, his rationale for the trade has to be related to Vrabel's ability to translate the coaching staff's demands down to the player level. In a situation like ours, to have a trusted, experienced, proven player in that role is extremely valuable.

When you think about it, we don't have anyone like that. All we have are guys who have been part of a team that hasn't won much of anything except the adoration of the fans.

I remain confident in Pioli's decision-making.

FAX

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:36 PM

Just to establish that you need to get a bit more of a grip, here's the history fo Patriots drafts under BB/SP

And note how often the PATRIOTS trade late round picks for NFL players.

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2008 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="4%" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td width="7%" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">7</td> <td colspan="4" align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">

To New Orleans

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">1</td> <td align="center">10</td> <td width="25%" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Jerod Mayo</td> <td width="7%" align="center">LB</td> <td width="22%" nowrap="nowrap">Tennessee</td> <td width="35%">From New Orleans, along with a 3rd (78), for a 1st (7) and a 5th (164)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">62</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Terrence Wheatley</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">CB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Colorado</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">3</td> <td align="center">69</td> <td colspan="4" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">

To San Diego

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">78</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Shawn Crable</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">LB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Michigan</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From New Orleans (see above)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">3</td> <td align="center">94</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Kevin O'Connell</td> <td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">QB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">San Diego State</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">129</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Jonathan Wilhite</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">CB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Auburn</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">153</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Matt Slater</td> <td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">WR</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">UCLA</td> <td>From Tampa Bay for a 5th (160) and a 7th (238)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">160</td> <td colspan="4" align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">

To Tampa Bay

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">164</td> <td colspan="4" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">

To New Orleans

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">197</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Bo Ruud</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">LB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Nebraska</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">238</td> <td colspan="4" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">

To Tampa Bay

</td></tr></tbody></table>

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:37 PM

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2007 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">24</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Brandon Meriweather</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">S</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Miami (Fla.)</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Seattle for WR Deion Branch</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td colspan="5" align="center">To Miami as part of trade for WR Wes Welker</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td colspan="5" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">To Oakland in exchange for WR Randy Moss</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">127</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Kareem Brown</td> <td align="center">DL</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Miami (Fla.)</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">171</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Clint Oldenburg</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">OL</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Colorado State</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">6</td> <td align="center">180</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Justin Rogers</td> <td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">LB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">SMU</td> <td>From Arizona for T Brandon Gorin</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">202</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Mike Richardson</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">CB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Notre Dame</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">6</td> <td align="center">208</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Justise Hairston</td> <td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">RB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Central Conn.</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">209</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Corey Hilliard</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">T</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Oklahoma State</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">211</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Oscar Lua</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Southern Cal</td> <td>From Oakland, along with a 3rd in 2008, for a 3rd (91)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">7</td> <td colspan="5" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">To Miami as part of trade for WR Wes Welker</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">247</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Mike Elgin</td> <td align="center">C</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Iowa</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2006 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">21</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Laurence Maroney</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">RB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Minnesota</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td align="center">36</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Chad Jackson</td> <td align="center">WR</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Florida</td> <td>From Green Bay for a 2nd (52) and a 3rd (75)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">86</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Dave Thomas</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">TE</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Texas</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">106</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Garrett Mills</td> <td align="center">FB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Tulsa</td> <td>From Detroit for a 5th (145) in 2005 and a 6th (206) in 2005</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">118</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Stephen Gostkowski</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">K</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Memphis</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">136</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Ryan O'Callaghan</td> <td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">T</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">California</td> <td>From Oakland, along with a 7th (230) in 2005, for a 6th (175) in 2005</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">191</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Jeremy Mincey</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">LB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Florida</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">6</td> <td align="center">205</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dan Stevenson</td> <td align="center">G</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Notre Dame</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">206</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Le Kevin Smith</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">DL</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Nebraska</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">229</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Willie Andrews</td> <td align="center">DB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Baylor</td> <td> </td></tr></tbody></table>

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:37 PM

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:38 PM

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2004 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">21</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Vince Wilfork</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">DT</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Miami (Fla.)</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Baltimore, along with a 2nd (41) in 2003, for a 1st (19) in 2003</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">1</td> <td align="center">32</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Benjamin Watson</td> <td align="center">TE</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Georgia</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">2</td> <td colspan="5" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">To Cincinnati in exchange for RB Corey Dillon</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td align="center">63</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Marquise Hill</td> <td align="center">DE</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">LSU</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">95</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Guss Scott</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">S</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Florida</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">113</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dexter Reid</td> <td align="center">S</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">No. Carolina</td> <td>From New Orleans, along with a 3rd (78) in 2003 and a 7th (239) in 2003, for S Tebucky Jones</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">128</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Cedric Cobbs</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">RB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Arkansas</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">164</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">P.K. Sam</td> <td align="center">WR</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Florida State</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td colspan="5" align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">To Pittsburgh in compensation for RFA Rodney Bailey</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">233</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Christian Morton</td> <td align="center">CB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Illinois</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2003 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">13</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Ty Warren</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">DL</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Texas A&M</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Chicago for a 1st (14) and 6th (193)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td align="center">36</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Eugene Wilson</td> <td align="center">DB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Illinois</td> <td>From Houston, along with a 4th (117), for a 2nd (41) and 3rd (75)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">45</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Bethel Johnson</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">WR</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Texas A&M</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Carolina for a 2nd (50) and 4th (120)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">117</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dan Klecko</td> <td align="center">DT</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Temple</td> <td>From Houston, along with a 2nd (36), for a 2nd (41) and 3rd (75)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">120</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Asante Samuel</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">CB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Central Florida</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Denver for a 4th (128) and 5th (157)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">164</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dan Koppen</td> <td align="center">C</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Boston College</td> <td>From Tennessee, along with a 6th (201) and 7th (243), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">201</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Kliff Kingsbury</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">QB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Texas Tech</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Tennessee, along with a 5th (164) and 7th (243), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">234</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Spencer Nead</td> <td align="center">TE</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">BYU</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">239</td> <td align="left" bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Tully Banta-Cain</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">LB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">California</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From New Orleans, along with a 3rd (78) in 2003 and a 4th in 2004, for Tebucky Jones</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">243</td> <td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Ethan Kelley</td> <td align="center">NT</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Baylor</td> <td>From Tennessee, along with a 5th (164) and 6th (201), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)</td></tr></tbody></table>

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:38 PM

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2002 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">21</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Daniel Graham</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">TE</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Colorado</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Washington for a 1st (32), 3rd (96) and a 7th (234)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td align="center">65</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Deion Branch</td> <td align="center">WR</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Louisville</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">117</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Rohan Davey</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">QB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">LSU</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Denver for a 4th (131) and a 5th (144)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">126</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Jarvis Green</td> <td align="center">DL</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">LSU</td> <td>From Green Bay for WR Terry Glenn</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">237</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Antwoine Womack</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">RB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Virginia</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Dallas, along with a 5th in 2003, for a 5th (168)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">253</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">David Givens</td> <td align="center">WR</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Notre Dame</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<table nowrap="" class="chart" bordercolorlight="#98A7B8" bordercolordark="#506074" width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="3" bordercolor="#506074" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="6" align="center" bgcolor="#133059">2001 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">1</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Richard Seymour</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">DL</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Georgia</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td align="center">48</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Matt Light</td> <td align="center">T</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Purdue</td> <td>From Detroit for a 2nd (50, from Pittsburgh) and a 6th (173, from San Francisco)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">86</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Brock Williams</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">CB</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Notre Dame</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Minnesota (NE trades a 3rd (69) to Minnesota for a 3rd (86) and a 4th (119))</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td align="center">96</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Kenyatta Jones</td> <td align="center">T</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">South
Florida</td> <td>From San Diego (NE trades a 4th (112) and a 5th (139) to San Diego for a 4th (96))</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">119</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Jabari Holloway</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">TE</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Notre Dame</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Minnesota (see Round 3)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td align="center">163</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Hakim Akbar</td> <td align="center">S</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Washington</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">180</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Arther Love</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">TE</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">South Carolina
State</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Detroit (NE trades a 5th (149) to Detroit for a 6th (180) and a 7th (216))</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">6</td> <td align="center">200</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Leonard Myers</td> <td align="center">CB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Miami (Fla.)</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">216</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Owen Pochman</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eef0f3">K</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3" nowrap="nowrap">Brigham Young</td> <td bgcolor="#eef0f3">From Detroit (see Round 6)</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">239</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">T.J. Turner</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td nowrap="nowrap">Michigan State</td> <td>Compensatory pick</td></tr></tbody></table>

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:38 PM

HemiEd

02-27-2009 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rad (Post 5536147)

I don't think he has a choice.

Besides, I don't believe he's a "me first" kind of player.

For Vrabel to be the team leader, a couple vets will have to go, maybe more. Waters, Gonzalez at least.

OnTheWarpath15

02-27-2009 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536417)

Just to establish that you need to get a bit more of a grip, here's the history fo Patriots drafts under BB/SP

And note how often the PATRIOTS trade late round picks for NFL players.

Which is a great plan when you have a hole here and there to fill, or need someone in a complementary role, or as a special teamer.

But when you've gone 6-26 over the last two years and you can count the talented players you have on both hands, you need all the draft picks you can get.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times:

I understand and value what he'll bring to the locker room NOW.

I'd have no problem with this had we signed him as a FA.

I just don't agree with the idea of a rebuilding team giving up picks for an aging, part-time player in his last year.

Tipford

02-27-2009 11:42 PM

The Vrabel Trade

I know this may be a stupid question to ask, but if the Chiefs are moving to the 3-4 defence as their base defence next year, what are they going to do with a player like Glenn Dorsey? Right now in my opinion, he is a player without a position to play of this team. He just doesn't have the body type to be asked to pack on the pounds and move into the nose tackle position. Tank Tyler is hugely more suited to pack on the pounds and move into the space eating nose tackle to keep the opposing offensive line off the linebackers in a 3-4 scheme. We might as well try trading Dorsey at this point to a team like Tennessee, since they are looking for a replacement for Haynesworth.

Ultra Peanut

02-27-2009 11:50 PM

Veteran leadership is nice, and all, but you have to have some talent in place before it can be led.

If it's a 7th rounder, whatever, but the overall shift in scheme and the lost opportunity to try to get a player capable of being around for more than two years is pretty disheartening if it's much more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

He's a shell of his former self! I'm so excited!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipford

I know this may be a stupid question to ask, but if the Chiefs are moving to the 3-4 defence as their base defence next year, what are they going to do with a player like Glenn Dorsey?

Flush him down the toilet.

OnTheWarpath15

02-27-2009 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut (Post 5536453)

Veteran leadership is nice, and all, but you have to have some talent in place before it can be led.

Exactly.

Amnorix

02-27-2009 11:53 PM

"It's still the guy with the most war stories who has the most impact and influence and has the power to set the tone."

"I think one of the lessons Belichick learned when he was coaching in Celveland was that the big-name players don't always make the best fit. . . . The players who were signed before the start of the 2001 season were all players brought here for specific reasons -- some for specialized skills, others for leadership, still otehrs fro a winning kind of attitude, but all because we were putting together a team, and tehse were some of the elements that were missing."

"Some examples: We acquired Bryan Cox, a veteran linebacker with talent but also a guy who brings an X-factor we needed for attitude. . . . He also brought in Anthony Pleasant, a defensive end he had drafted originally in Cleveland and a player he knew very well, one who would give us some veteran leadership on the defnsive line."

As coaches, we definitely felt we had substantially upgraded the team from where it had been in 2000. We didn't come in saying we had one of the most talented teams int he league, but Coach Belichick made sure all of us knew that we would have a team that was extremely strong mentally."

"After the workouts the players would talk to the coaches about responsibilities and also become use to the verbiage that we would be using. It was all preparation for the season and these guys wanted to do it. All it takes is a couple fo leaders to show the way. If one player told the others, 'Hey, I had a great meeting with Pepper', the next thing I knew there were three or four guys in my office."

Won for All by Pepper Johnson with Bill Gutman.

Pepper is currently the Pats, err, TE coach I think. He was DL coach for a stretch, and was with Belichick as a player with the Giants and Browns.

RustShack

02-27-2009 11:54 PM

Maybe the Chiefs will run some crazy ass hybrid that the NFL has never seen.

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