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keg in kc 02-12-2010 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528149)
He was worse than Sanchez...Sanchez performed like a rookie QB which he was, Cassel performed like a rookie QB while supposedly having experience.

Apparently I need to repeat myself.
Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6528082)
Looking at their individual performance should be and is a mutually-exclusive thing. Judge them for how they did on their own merits, not how they did compared to each other. At least that's how I try to look at it.

Maybe I find it easier since I don't fall into any particular camp. Although, technically, if we have to talk about them together, then, well, I guess I'd have to say I wanted Sanchez more than I wanted Cassel (who I wanted not at all...). The only good thing I've ever been able to say about that trade is that it cost less than I expected. Which still doesn't change the fact that I didn't see Sanchez as a top-5 value, because of his experience, or lack thereof. But in the end my view of one has never had anything to do with my view of the other.

Quote:

But if you want to tell yourself that you'd rather have Matt Cassel and Tyson Jackson and that's better for the teams future by all means whatever it takes to make you feel better.
So wait, saying Sanchez had a horrible rookie season is saying I'd rather have Matt Cassel and Tyson Jackson?

Well, gee, thanks for clearing that up for me, Great Karnak!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528150)
Ok so you are essentially admitting that trading for Matt Cassel was incredibly stupid?

I can't talk for him, but I'll say trading for Cassel was stupid.

And I'll also say that Sanchez had a horrible rookie season.

Because neither fact has anything to do with the other.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not someone who believes every comment about one has to be somehow inextricably linked to the other. At the end of the day I still don't want Cassel and I still wouldn't have given up a top-5 pick for Sanchez. Stafford? Sure.

I still wish we'd found a way to get Ryan. I think he'll be better than all of them.

Mecca 02-12-2010 08:12 PM

I don't even think his rookie season was that bad, but this is KC, where people hate QB's and all that jazz.

This time of year is especially when it comes out.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528156)
That was the decision, you do realize if you dropped Sanchez into this QB class he'd be the top ranked one right?

That's impossible to predict because we don't know what would have happened at USC this year. Maybe he gets hurt or struggles. He was behind Bradford last year before Bradford decided to come back so I would say he would probably be #2 maybe #3 if he came out and nothing too crazy happened this year. Either way he is a top 3 guy, but apparently the Chiefs did not feel like he was what they wanted in a franchise QB if they were looking to draft one. It's too early to tell, but he struggled more then Ryan and Flacco did last year, although Sanchez was also a year younger.

KCrockaholic 02-12-2010 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528156)
That was the decision, you do realize if you dropped Sanchez into this QB class he'd be the top ranked one right?

It's true, but that's not saying much. I hate this class at the top of the QB list.

With that said, we will see 1 or 2 superstars come from this class, but they will be the sleeper prospects, not the 1st round guys.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528167)
I don't even think his rookie season was that bad, but this is KC, where people hate QB's and all that jazz.

This time of year is especially when it comes out.

I keep hearing that, but hate QB jazz, but I for one would love to have Bradford or a young QB. I just think most people are resigned to the fact we probably won't take one, although it would be a brillant move IMO.

Mecca 02-12-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 6528172)
That's impossible to predict because we don't know what would have happened at USC this year. Maybe he gets hurt or struggles. He was behind Bradford last year before Bradford decided to come back so I would say he would probably be #2 maybe #3 if he came out and nothing too crazy happened this year. Either way he is a top 3 guy, but apparently the Chiefs did not feel like he was what they wanted in a franchise QB if they were looking to draft one. It's too early to tell, but he struggled more then Ryan and Flacco did last year, although Sanchez was also a year younger.

Disagree with that, on draft forums, NFLDC I will use as the example it was asked if they all declare where do they rank and Scott Wright said Sanchez was ahead of Bradford.

All things considered, Sanchez in prospect terms was ahead of Bradford and Clausen.

Mecca 02-12-2010 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 6528183)
I keep hearing that, but hate QB jazz, but I for one would love to have Bradford or a young QB. I just think most people are resigned to the fact we probably won't take one, although it would be a brillant move IMO.

I don't think Bradford is going to be any better than an ok QB, I don't see any major upside.

But you know what I'm referring to we're a team that hasn't drafted a QB in the first round in nearly 30 years and the idea of it still makes half the fan base shit their pants.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528188)
Disagree with that, on draft forums, NFLDC I will use as the example it was asked if they all declare where do they rank and Scott Wright said Sanchez was ahead of Bradford.

All things considered, Sanchez in prospect terms was ahead of Bradford and Clausen.

All the ones I saw last year had Bradford #1 overall, before going back.

keg in kc 02-12-2010 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528167)
I don't even think his rookie season was that bad, but this is KC, where people hate QB's and all that jazz.

The guy's protected not only by the league's best defense but the league's best rushing attack, yet he completes less than 54% of his passes and tosses 20 picks on barely over 350 pass attempts. I'm sorry, but that's bad any way you slice it.

Matt Ryan's or Joe Flacco's performance from 2008 is what you want. Not Sanchez or Stafford in 2009. They were both bad. There's no real way to defend either of them.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528193)
I don't think Bradford is going to be any better than an ok QB, I don't see any major upside.

But you know what I'm referring to we're a team that hasn't drafted a QB in the first round in nearly 30 years and the idea of it still makes half the fan base shit their pants.

He is amazingly accurate, which means a lot. I watched Cassell miss so many open guys this year that I know Bradford would of hit right on the money although it probably would have been dropped anyways.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6528201)
The guy's protected not only by the league's best defense but the league's best rushing attack, yet he completes less than 54% of his passes and tosses 20 picks on barely over 350 pass attempts. I'm sorry, but that's bad any way you slice it.

Matt Ryan's or Joe Flacco's performance from 2008 is what you want. Not Sanchez or Stafford in 2009. They were both bad. There's no real way to defend either of them.

Stafford got dumped into a shit pyle of a team. That can be defended. I'm not sold on him, but I'm not sure Manning wins 5 with that group.

Mecca 02-12-2010 08:24 PM

And Joe Flacco pissed his pants in the playoffs, Mark Sanchez didn't. I'll be the first one to say I wouldn't have started Sanchez right away, he was a 1 year college starter, I didn't consider him a ready to go from day 1 prospect, so he's going to have growing pains, Matt Ryan for example started about almost 30 more games in college.

Those sites that had Bradford going first were just looking at his stats and hadn't done the offseason looks, Stafford was always the top QB, followed by Sanchez with Bradford coming in just after that, now if they all had come out they probably all go top 10 though.

Bradford has to many questions for me, it's hard to judge accuracy of a guy who plays in the spread system and gets to throw to guys who are running wide open.

keg in kc 02-12-2010 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528193)
I don't think Bradford is going to be any better than an ok QB, I don't see any major upside.

But you know what I'm referring to we're a team that hasn't drafted a QB in the first round in nearly 30 years and the idea of it still makes half the fan base shit their pants.

This is where you do yourself a disservice. Not wanting your chosen guy doesn't mean people don't want anybody. And it doesn't mean they're stupid. Or that they're homers. It just means that they have a difference of opinion.

Like I've probably dozens of times in the last year, I wouldn't have taken Sanchez high, because he was a junior (risky enough on its own) with one year as a starter. That's too many red flags for the top 5. If we were picking at the bottom of the round I'd have been more open to it. Either way, that doesn't mean I don't want a QB. I would have taken Stafford had he been there. I would have taken Ryan had he been there the year before. I might take Clausen this year, although to be honest there's something about him that just seems off to me. But I imagine Weis knows him better than anybody, so if they somehow did decide to pull the trigger on him, I'd imagine I'd be okay with it.

And I never in a million years would have traded for Cassel. That whole thing had 'disaster' written all over it from the start. I hope it works out in the end, I really do, but I never would have done it.

BigCatDaddy 02-12-2010 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6528210)
And Joe Flacco pissed his pants in the playoffs, Mark Sanchez didn't. I'll be the first one to say I wouldn't have started Sanchez right away, he was a 1 year college starter, I didn't consider him a ready to go from day 1 prospect, so he's going to have growing pains, Matt Ryan for example started about almost 30 more games in college.

Those sites that had Bradford going first were just looking at his stats and hadn't done the offseason looks, Stafford was always the top QB, followed by Sanchez with Bradford coming in just after that, now if they all had come out they probably all go top 10 though.

Bradford has to many questions for me, it's hard to judge accuracy of a guy who plays in the spread system and gets to throw to guys who are running wide open.

That the biggest misconception is that their guys are always wide open. Go back and watch the Florida game again and the game he played this year before getting hurt. He was sqeezing the ball in tight spots, the WR's just couldn't hang on. I don't worry much about the spread, since the NFL uses it so much anyways.

The guy is accurate and I believe that's something you can't teach. Everything else he can learn.

Mecca 02-12-2010 08:31 PM

It's not just Sanchez, how many people argued against Ryan, against the guys this year, against whoever the QB we thought we'd have a chance to pick was?

At the time of the draft the QB is never good enough no matter who it is, Stafford was railed endlessly until it was realized he was going before us and then it turned to Sanchez.

It's about that position not Sanchez.


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