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-   -   Chiefs I've finally changed my mind about Todd Haley (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=252827)

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 08:22 AM
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 8132304)
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.
I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132333)
I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.
Oh, I agreed at the time, so I'm not second guessing. It just didn't seem to work out. (Assuming a more conventional approach wouldn't have ended up worse somehow)

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132254)
Weis LEFT. How many times does that have to be said? Weis went to coach his son and look how that turned out.

Haley should have never had to work with Gailey AT ALL. The whole coaching staff should have been gone, period. Clark Hunt asked Haley to give Gailey a chance and he did. Haley should have told Hunt no and been done with it. As it is, Haley takes the bullet for Hunt's loyalty to stupidity.

I think Haley needs to be fired.

That way we can bring in Josh McDaniels to hold Cassel's hand AGAIN and he can fail, AGAIN.
Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8132341)
Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.
Weis' son is angling for a Graduate position which generally means coaching opportunities in the future. Weis himself said that's why he was leaving.

We both know about the personalities. But to say that Haley "ran him off" is speculation and that's it.

dallaschiefsfan 11-22-2011 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132221)
The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.
This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan (Post 8132372)
This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.
I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".

dirk digler 11-22-2011 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 8132011)
If Pioli thought that he was going to be financially handcuffed by Hunt he would have never taken the offer. It's not like Cleveland didn't offer him the job.
I don't know how else you can explain it though. Piolo acknowledged in the book that the roster has a ton of holes in it yet they didn't really address very many of them.

I guess if they are going to go the route of just using the draft almost exclusively it is going to take at least 5 years and that is if they hit on every pick which of course they haven't.

dallaschiefsfan 11-22-2011 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132378)
I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".
Probably. Or the fact that Haley had some competent game planning/managing coordinators that worked well together. Personally, I don't think we see a dropoff with Haley as OC. But we lose any advantage we have with Haley as OC if he's expected to game plan the whole team. That's simply not his strength. He played the role ADEQUATELY last year and was exposed in the playoffs (not that Cassell wasn't a huge part of that as well).

This team needs a solid group of planners/managers on the coaching staff (not Muir types!) that allow Haley to lead from his strengths as OC and motivator. If Haley truly has 100% control of coach hiring, then that's on him. I suspect Pioli has more control than what's reported.

DTLB58 11-22-2011 09:21 AM
I think they will let Todd coach out his contract, get everyone back from IR next year and give it one more go.

I always have been a Haley supporter but am losing faith fast. Just seems like there are a lot of other teams in the NFL with less doing better.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 09:23 AM
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.

royr17 11-22-2011 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8131880)
Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.
If we were to replace them, who would we replace them with, the only active players we have on the roster other than the starters are Rodney Hudson, Jared Gaither, and Steve Maneri, so again I ask who would you replace them with ?

jspchief 11-22-2011 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132464)
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.

GloryDayz 11-22-2011 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8131880)
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.
Me too, he sucks at golf too!

lcarus 11-22-2011 09:50 AM
I'm down on Haley right now too man. That 4th and 1 in the 1st quarter really really pissed me off, among other things. To be fair though, he's been taking Pioli's chicken shit and trying to make chicken salad out of it. The problem is, we're not doing better than we should be doing. What I mean is - we're bad - but a good coach could make us a little better than this.


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