Built the deepest team on both sides of the ball that we've seen in a really, really long time.

Developed talent that was un- and under-developed under Herm.

Has had two good drafts ('10 and '11) to one bad one ('09). Even including the 2009 draft, arguably no team in the NFL has drafted better in that three year span. And has signed relatively strong value guys in the offseasons.

All his coaching hires after 2009 have been rock solid, with the possible exception of Daboll.

Are you kidding me?

If they return at 80% of their abilities, a reasonable bet, this team will improve.

Unless you prefer a 100% Jackie Battle and Jon McGraw.

In which case, you can have 'em.

I don't like that trade for us, I really don't. I don't like Griffin enough to toss two first rounders and a second into a hole for him.

This was a pathetic year for QBs. Like the one before it was.

We'll revisit this conversation next year at this time, I'm sure of it.

If the 2013 offseason and draft has come and gone, and Cassel isn't either (a.) replaced, or (b.) clearly holding the spot for the true QBotF that is on the roster as of that moment, I will 100% change my tune.

Pioli was out there doing hand-drills with Johnson?

Bowe is the exact same player now he was 3 years ago. Flowers, Carr and Hali just needed experience. Give me a break with that crap - Pioli gets zero credit for 'developing' a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. They all showed flashes and simply matured and gained experience.

2010 was not a good draft. At best it was average. I've had this discussion with you before, but the bottom line is that he wasted the 2nd round, traded up to get the 4th best TE in the draft (and an injury prone one at that) and apart from his no-brainer in Berry and a nice guard in Asomoah (the same position so many have cried is so easy to fin), added very little reliable talent to this roster in 2010.

His hires have been rock solid? Well apart from Haley being a ****ing lunatic - sure. Mostly he just kept a bunch of guys in the organization that was already here and hired Crennel. That's it. His only 'rock solid' hire was Romeo.

It's hard to argue against this, but he had neglected the QB positions for reasons not entirely clear, and that is why he gets flamed.

We are the anti-Colts. They had the QB and not much else*; we have the much more complete roster with nearly nothing at QB. While Manning was healthy, who was doing better?


* Freeney and Mathis are the only two guys I can name off that defense, and Peyton clearly made the other good players on offense better, not to mention how their opponents had to play from behind a majprity of the time.

:spock::spock::spock:

Dead wrong. He's developed it.

Carr, Flowers, Dorsey -- all took massive steps forward under the coaches that Pioli's hired.

If you want to take one of those players away from me, claiming they were already going to be that good, I'll give you Flowers, and that's it.

Carr became a #1 corner, and Dorsey became an elite run stopper at the DE position. And we took several players who were underperforming for multiple years before Pioli arrived -- Bowe, Hali, Johnson -- and turned them into All Pros and Pro Bowlers.

Either everybody just coincidentally hit their stride at the same exact moment, or Herm and Carl's talent development was somewhere near terrible, whereas Pioli's has been adequate to great.

More like the 28th best team....in Missouri. :P

Would you really have done what the Redskins have done?

They have sold out their future, repeatedly, since Snyder has owned the team.
They have to, they gotta sell the fan base on the hype.
I would not trade talent with the Redskins, and by your very own words earlier, RG3 hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet.
If the Chiefs players haven't he sure as hell hasn't. See how that works?

You say that like those players were all playing great before Pioli got here. At the end of '08 if you'd have listed those players and called them great talent, you'd be laughed at. They became great or really good in the last 3 years. Being moved to the 3-4 is the best thing that ever happened to Hali, Johnson is finally putting it together, but 3 years ago he was underachieving.

Also I like how the 2012 draft is already an abortion for you. And they 2010 draft wasn't bad either.

You can't blame Pioli when prospects don't turn out -- then refuse to credit him when they do.

His coaches, his successes and failures.

You're wrong, bud.

Berry, McCluster, Arenas, Asamoah, Moeaki, Lewis?

You can quibble about the values each was taken at, and I'm on record agreeing with you. But we got solid starters at RG and FS and NCB, added a potential Pro Bowler in Moeaki, an All Pro in Berry, and McCluster, whom nobody really has any idea what to do with him.

I understand the hate on the value of some of the players, as well as McCluster. But we got a haul from that draft, which is better than something like 95% of the teams do in every draft.

McCluster, Arenas and Moeaki are not good picks. Nickle backs and kick returners are not, under any circumstances, worth 2nd rounders. And Moeaki was an injury risk that's already missed half-his career and has been less productive than multiple TEs taken after him.

Berry was simply too damn simple for me to give him credit for.

I'll concede I forgot Lewis. Lewis was a good pick. But it's still no more than an average draft considering the position we sat in each of those rounds (at the very top) as well as the fact that we had an extra 2nd rounder.

Hell, thats optimistic.

I mentioned the hate in an earlier post, tongue-in-cheek.

Of course he ran with it like a 12 yr old. LOL