We can judge Baldwin because we have empirical evidence for what a true #1 WR does out of the blocks, even with a shit QB.

That's an exaggeration. We need an overhaul of our coaching staff. We need a new QB. Those things alone make this team a very good football team.

We always act like we should have 22 very good starters. It's just not typical in today's NFL. I"m not going to get riled up if we're missing a guard or a free safety. We have more than enough talent at the key positions to support a very good head coach and QB. Putting Jim Harbaugh's staff (OC + DC) alone makes this team competitive. Replacing the QB on a Harbaugh coached team makes this team a contender. Chipping away at those 7 or 8 starters just makes the job easier.

You're really telling me that putting RGIII or even Tannehill and the entire 49ers Coaching staff alone doesn't make this team a serious contender?

And a #2 in Breaston.

I'm telling you that the players we've discussed in this thread have no business starting in the NFL on a perennial playoff team.

We are the Browns, Midwest.

So they start for us.

Remember when Eric Warfield went to New England? His ass didn't even make the final roster.

We can also judge him because he runs sloppy, half-assed routes, struggles to find the ball in the air, and does a piss-poor job of using the sideline on the handful of jump balls he's thrown.

1 and 2 are key.

If you're a QB - much less a QB getting ass-fisted by fans and media - are you going to trust a guy like Baldwin who runs sloppy routes? Who doesn't get to where he's expected to be? Who struggles to find the ball in the air?

I sure as **** wouldn't.

Dude hasn't even improved at the basics.

To be fair, the sidelines are different in St. Joe.

Seriously, though, some of those criticisms were and are aimed at Bowe, too. And the mother****er still produced, and produced, and produced.

And he won't be a Chief next year because we hired the dumbest mother****er in the world to be our GM.

Jon Baldwin had 2 targets last game, and one was a horizontal pass thrown as soon as the ball was snapped.

JAKE O'CONNELL had more targets.

It speaks volumes that our QB sucks, and our QB was bitching at him at the end of the game for a route run the wrong way.

If Matt Cassel thinks you suck, and Chiefsplanet agrees with Matt Cassel on the issue, holy balls, you suck.

That 1% theory was a unique approach to looking at the team and how they changed talent for the worse in most cases.

Baldwin can't even run a ****ing route properly.

There are lots of teams with that problem, even the good ones. The difference is that in the past, our starters weren't even worthy of a roster spot on an NFL Europe squad. Even our bad starters are fringe starters / quality backups. I think we're really getting nitpicky if we're going to get riled up about Guards and slot receivers and 5-techniques. And most of those guys aren't even terrible. They're just not very good.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't do better. I'm not defending the way Pioli built his team, because Moeaki should be Gronk or Graham. Baldwin should have been Dalton. The list goes on. But the team has improved dramatically and that will show with wholesale changes in the coaching staff and with an improved QB. Should it continue to improve? Of course. I'd expect nothing less. But we're not in some dire situation where a new GM can't make this a deep playoff contender with just a few effective offseason moves.

I'll agree with you on Baldwin. Was never high on him and still am not.

It should have been Andy Dalton. I'm not sold that he's an answer, but at least it meant we were trying.

This.

This I agree completely with.

But there is no way we can start a guy like Jon Baldwin next year, or Stanford Routt.

We can probably "get by" with Arenas at NCB or Jackson at LDE.

Now we're on the same page. Agree with this. Though I think Routt will be just fine if our front 5 starts to finally do their job consistently.

I think Baldwin is a talented knuckle head just like he was at PITT, but I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't think he is in a position to excell so I call him an incomplete. Fine even shitty Casshole made Bowe look good, but he can't very well contune to feed Bowe and have targets left for Baldwin when they aren't game planning to throw the ball in the first place. He's been out there for a little more than half the snaps of DBowe, I don't see where he can be clearly judged in this offense.