I liked them OK back in the 70s, but at this point, I'm with you.

Using that lame cliche makes you look like one. Sorry.

Seriously how the hell do you know what would have happened had there never been a Kiss? It doesn't take a genius to think up a gimmick like painting your faces to gain distinction.

KISS certainly influenced a lot of Glam Metal bands, Pantera, Weezer, Iced Earth, and others.

The thrash metal sound of the early and mid 80s was a blend of punk and the new wave of British heavy metal. Basically, the bands liked the attitude of punk but actually wanted to play their instruments well.

They just stole it from alice cooper.

I'm not saying modern bands aren't influenced, I'm saying it's absurd to say there would have never been a band like Slipknot if Kiss never existed, or metal would have never existed if it weren't for Black Sabbath. They're pioneers but someone else would have come along had they never hit it big.

You are talking about Pantera before Anselmo joined when they were glam. Nobody remembers Metal Magic, Projects In the Jungle or Power Metal. Pantera truly became the groove metal band during Cowboys that everyone knows about. Pantera evolved and was later influenced more by Anthrax and Metallica among others.

All true. But a band like sabbath developed a lot of their sound accidentally, so who knows how long it would have taken for someone else to do it.

Dimebag was a true KISS lover though.

Actually, they stole it from Arthur Brown.

That is probably where Alice Cooper got it from as well.

:bravo:

Charlie Chaplin

Who got it from Arthur Brown, as Gloucester said.

It's not a lame cliche when the BANDS THEMSELVES say it.

Lars Ulrich says there wouldn't be a Metallica without Diamond Head. And Brian Tatler says there wouldn't be a Diamond Head without Black Sabbath.

So are you going to say that your favorite musicians are lame too?

It's called historical context. Of course, somebody else COULD have come up with it. But somebody else didn't, KISS DID.

And if you talk to musicians, they'll tell you.

Stop acting like you're better than everybody else, it makes you look dumb.

:facepalm:

Im not acting like Im better than anyone.

Maybe specific bands would sound differently had they not been influenced but metal would have come along eventually without Sabbath, and bands would have painted their faces/wore masks eventually without Kiss. If you dont think so you're very naive.

It doesn't matter if I think so or not. The simple fact is Sabbath did happen, and pretty much every metal band that has come along since has cited them as a influence. That's a fact, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.